Let's Assume FedEx Goes Union...

[Livin the Dream?]

I don't know how many FedEx drivers there are. Let's say 30,000.

If the Teamsters/UPS wins in its' battle to hobble FedEx, er, come to these people's rescue, (re-classify as employees) what do you think the very first thing that the brass at FedEx will do?

Hint - It sure won't have people thanking the Union.

 

[MrFedEx]

I don't know how many FedEx drivers there are. Let's say 30,000.

If the Teamsters/UPS wins in its' battle to hobble FedEx, er, come to these people's rescue, (re-classify as employees) what do you think the very first thing that the brass at FedEx will do?

Hint - It sure won't have people thanking the Union.

Here's today's FedEx lesson for you. The Teamsters and UPS are currently working on ending the Express RLA exemption, which has nothing to do with Ground. We have always been employees on the Express side, and there are no IC's at all. What else don't you know about FedEx?

 

[pretzel_man]

First, a couple of points of clarification.... There are two seperate issues.

UPS believes that FedEx is illegally classifying employees as contractors. I've posted the IRS rules before, but generally if the company can direct the work being performed the person is an employuee. This includes includes methods, tools, work hours, etc.

From my perspective these IC's look like employees, act like employees, and from the public's perspective are represented as employees. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

The second issue is that FedEx is the only express carrier giverned by the RLA for employees that have nothing to do with airline work. There is a resolution that just passed the house I think to change that classification.

Here is a quote from the Teamsters on that issue "Employees at FedEx Express who perform precisely the same work requiring the same skill sets are treated dramatically different under our labor laws and are subject to the Railway Labor Act even though they never touch an airplane," said hall, Teamsters International Vice President and Package Division Director. "Employees performing the same work, employed by companies that provide the same services, should have the same rights to organize a union."

So now to your question. ...

I think that if FedEx ground employees were no longer classified as IC's I think FedEx would immediately look to combine their air and ground networks. This will help offset the additional cost.

I think they will look to offset more cost by providing more performance controls similar to UPS.

If the reauthorization bill eventually passes to change their RLA classification, I think FedEx will go on an internal education campaign to convince their workers that they don't want to joing the union. They will tout their "best places to work" status and downplay any benefits of being a unionized.

P-Man

 

[Livin the Dream?]

...
So now to your question. I think that...

If FedEx ground employees were no longer classified as IC's I think FedEx would immediately look to combine their air and ground networks. This will help offset the additional cost.

I think they will look to offset more cost by providing more performance controls similar to UPS.

If the reauthorization bill eventually passes to change their RLA classification, I think FedEx will go on an internal education campaign to convince their workers that they don't want to joing the union. They will tout their "best places to work" status and downplay any benefits of being a unionized.

P-Man

There are many issues, discussed everywhere, elsewhere. My questioned concerned what FedEx would do if it happened.

Your answer ;

"I think they will look to offset more cost by providing more performance controls similar to UPS."

is one way to put it.

 

[barnyard]

There are many issues, discussed everywhere, elsewhere. My questioned concerned what FedEx would do if it happened.

Your question in the 1st post was very poorly posed. Which FedEx are you referring to??? FedEx and FedEx Ground are 2 different companies owned by the same corporation.

If FedEx were to go union and or FedEx Ground were to loose their contractor advantage, I believe that FedEx Corp. would file for bankruptcy reorg.

Actually, I suspect that a bankruptcy filing is in FedEx's future when one considers what their IRS liabilities are adding up to.

TB

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Here's today's FedEx lesson for you. The Teamsters and UPS are currently working on ending the Express RLA exemption, which has nothing to do with Ground. We have always been employees on the Express side, and there are no IC's at all. What else don't you know about FedEx?

What is your mother's maiden name & birthday?

 

[pretzel_man]

There are many issues, discussed everywhere, elsewhere. My questioned concerned what FedEx would do if it happened.

Your answer ;

"I think they will look to offset more cost by providing more performance controls similar to UPS."

is one way to put it.

There was a reason I clarified the question...

If FedEx Ground employees were properly classified, FedEx would have to put in cost controls whether or not they were unionized. This assumes they are paying by the hour.

They could certainly become classified as employees and remain a non-union shop.

P-Man

 

[sano]

There are many issues, discussed everywhere, elsewhere. My questioned concerned what FedEx would do if it happened.

Your answer ;

"I think they will look to offset more cost by providing more performance controls similar to UPS."

is one way to put it.

LTD, I think you are minimizing a very good post here. Whether you agree or not, pman gave a well thought out response to your question. When you just blow off every answer to your post it almost makes it look like you are just trying to pick a fight.

 

[Livin the Dream?]

LTD, I think you are minimizing a very good post here. Whether you agree or not, pman gave a well thought out response to your question. When you just blow off every answer to your post it almost makes it look like you are just trying to pick a fight.

I apologize - I was in no way "blowing off" the valid response p-man made. I have strong feelings on what is & what is not an IC, posted elsewhere on the BC. I am in the minority. Won't be the first time.

The argument regarding what is & is not an IC is not the question, though - my question was what do you think will be the first action by FedEx should UPS/Teamsters get their way, and all ICs are reclassified as Employees?

And, in my opinion, there will be a dramatic loss of jobs/layoffs/terminations. There would be no other choice.

Again, my apologies to p-man -


You want to talk about starting a fight, though, watch this - Hey, MrFedEx, the sky is blue.

 

[barnyard]

I don't think it will be that dramatic. IF they were to combine companies, they will then look at routes that will have their coverage shrink.

Example, the area where I deliver. The FedEx express guy covers the area that 4-5 guys cover. The ground guy covers close to the same area. I don't talk to the ground guy, so I don't know if he attempts every stop, every day, but I do talk to the Express guy and know for a fact that he leaves stops until he has enough in an area to justify the drive.

If you combine their air and ground volume, there probably still is enough work for 2 people, if they deliver every stop that is loaded, the day that it is loaded.

If FedEx has to raise it's prices to cover added costs of a union contract or even the added costs of actual employees, I would also look for them to increase or actually stick to, their service guarantees.

TB

 

[sano]

Hey, no problem. And btw I guess PMAN don't need me going to bat for him, he seems to be able to take care of himself

You want to talk about starting a fight, though, watch this - Hey, MrFedEx, the sky is blue.

OK now you did it! What next? you going to tell 705red that they should join the national bargaining unit? Is nothing sacred to you?

 

[Just Numbers]

I don't know how many FedEx drivers there are. Let's say 30,000.

If the Teamsters/UPS wins in its' battle to hobble FedEx, er, come to these people's rescue, (re-classify as employees) what do you think the very first thing that the brass at FedEx will do?

Hint - It sure won't have people thanking the Union.

So why would you start a thread that, through enough commented ideas, gives fedex all the plans they will need. Let them figure this out for themselves. Let's not ASSume anything. Those politicians have real deep pockets don't ya know!

 

[Livin the Dream?]

So why would you start a thread that, through enough commented ideas, gives fedex all the plans they will need. Let them figure this out for themselves. Let's not ASSume anything. Those politicians have real deep pockets don't ya know!

Well, it's not rocket science - it is what they would HAVE to do. I started the thread because I can't wait to hear all the back-tracking of how it was good for all that were working for FedEx. The ones that will be left, anyway.

I can hear 705Red now "...Hey, for the 50% of the people that were not let go at FedEx, we have given them great benefits. That they have to wait a year for..."

 

[Just Numbers]

Well, it's not rocket science - it is what they would HAVE to do. I started the thread because I can't wait to hear all the back-tracking of how it was good for all that were working for FedEx. The ones that will be left, anyway.

I can hear 705Red now "...Hey, for the 50% of the people that were not let go at FedEx, we have given them great benefits. That they have to wait a year for..."

No it is not rocket science but, sometimes the simplest and most obvious are often overloooked.

 

[sano]

Well, it's not rocket science - ..."

Oh for the love of....
Now you are bringing rocket into this. This will not end well.
Ok, I'll stop now.

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Oh for the love of....
Now you are bringing rocket into this. This will not end well.
Ok, I'll stop now.

I think I'll stop as well. Mention 705 in any thread, I think he has a 6th sense....

 

[pretzel_man]

I apologize - I was in no way "blowing off" the valid response p-man made. I have strong feelings on what is & what is not an IC, posted elsewhere on the BC. I am in the minority. Won't be the first time.

The argument regarding what is & is not an IC is not the question, though - my question was what do you think will be the first action by FedEx should UPS/Teamsters get their way, and all ICs are reclassified as Employees?

And, in my opinion, there will be a dramatic loss of jobs/layoffs/terminations. There would be no other choice.

Again, my apologies to p-man -


You want to talk about starting a fight, though, watch this - Hey, MrFedEx, the sky is blue.

Why do you see a dramatic loss of jobs? It seems it would only be from two causes...

One is that FedEx figures out how to get the same work done with less people. This could be through being more efficient and combining networks (which may provide additional competitive benefits). It could also be through improving methods and performance.

In this case, is it necessarily a bad thing? Their network becomes more efficent and has less impact on cost.

The other option is that after they had to pay for social security taxes and other regulatory items they have to raise prices which causes loss of volume.

In this case, where will the volume go? I hope it goes to a union company that pays good wages and provides benefits to their employees. The lost jobs at FedEx would be offset with union UPS jobs.

Of course, like you I'm biased.

P-Man

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Why do you see a dramatic loss of jobs? It seems it would only be from two causes...

One is that FedEx figures out how to get the same work done with less people. This could be through being more efficient and combining networks (which may provide additional competitive benefits). It could also be through improving methods and performance.

In this case, is it necessarily a bad thing? Their network becomes more efficent and has less impact on cost.

The other option is that after they had to pay for social security taxes and other regulatory items they have to raise prices which causes loss of volume.

In this case, where will the volume go? I hope it goes to a union company that pays good wages and provides benefits to their employees. The lost jobs at FedEx would be offset with union UPS jobs.

Of course, like you I'm biased.

P-Man

I don't have the correct numbers, but follow me here - someone above hit on this;

FedEx has 5 people on one route in a day. It would not seem to make sense, but it does - 2 are Express, 3 are ground. It makes sense financially because 3 of them are ICs. Logistically, it is silly, but the bottom line works.

Now FedEx finds they must classify all as employees - they can, will, must combine Express & ground, because the only advantage they had by keeping them separate is now gone.

Of those 5 originally working, they will need no more than three to get the same amount of work done. And, if forced to pay $30/hour + benefits, count on 3 of the 5 being terminated.

I can't prove it or argue it well, but mark my words - you will not see a big price increase from FedEx either way. They will use every other option available before that happens, up to and including using the UPS model of unrealistic numbers placed on overworked drivers that is working so well.

JUST MY OPINION.

 

[bluehdmc]

You forgot FedEx Home Delivery, another IC covering the same area as ground, home does not deliver on Mondays, but they do on Saturdays. Don't forget too that although IC's are doing the deliveries, at least in my area there are 2 different hubs. Express and Ground if the 3 divisions were combined there may be some loss of drivers, probably the IC's. There's all the sorters, etc. involved in the ground operation that I'm sure some would get absorbed if the companies were combined.
I'm sure Fred and Company have been brainstorming this whole scenario and would probably implement the changes relatively smoothly.
The reason's they don't do it now is $$$$, the IC model just puts more money in their pockets, (not the IC's, Fred's pockets).
Perhaps the poorer service is why FedEx lost LL Bean. I've ordered stuff from other places that now seem to ship UPS instead of FedEx. When FedEx home can't seem to find me there tracking says, "no one home or business closed". I've called the shipper and told them I was home and UPS seems to have no problem finding me whether it's a new driver, cover driver, whatever. I guess if the IC's spends more than 5 min looking for an address the just mark it no one home.

 

[trplnkl]

I don't have the correct numbers, but follow me here - someone above hit on this;

And obviously you didn't read what they said and you haven't paid attention on the streets.

FedEx has 5 people on one route in a day. It would not seem to make sense, but it does - 2 are Express, 3 are ground. It makes sense financially because 3 of them are ICs. Logistically, it is silly, but the bottom line works.

You've got it backwards. An area that UPS has covered by 4-5 drivers is covered by one FedEx Ground and one FedEx Express that equals two. But now these two will both have air and ground and have to split up that same area to get it all done in one day. The only way it will cut back on drivers is IF they are able to consolidate two or more ground areas because FedEx didn't care how little was on each truck.

Now FedEx finds they must classify all as employees - they can, will, must combine Express & ground, because the only advantage they had by keeping them separate is now gone.
I'm not a lawyer nor am I well read on the law but I'm not so sure they can combine the two companies without losing the RLA protection first.

Of those 5 originally working, they will need no more than three to get the same amount of work done. And, if forced to pay $30/hour + benefits, count on 3 of the 5 being terminated.
Again you've got the effect backwards. I really doubt the Teamsters (if voted in) would start out asking for 30 buck and hour because the volume and profit margins are not equal to UPS's. Part of the formula that makes up the negotiations for wages are determined in part by those factors.

I can't prove it or argue it well, but mark my words - you will not see a big price increase from FedEx either way. They will use every other option available before that happens, up to and including using the UPS model of unrealistic numbers placed on overworked drivers that is working so well.

JUST MY OPINION.