Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Sleeve_meet_Heart, Dec 1, 2013.
Primer for bbsam
Come now. If it's for me, I can handle something a little deeper. And I never confused the Koch brothers with anything libertarian or Libertarian. They are the exact type of destructive capitalists that stand more in the way of Libertarianism than anything. They will take the release from regulation and have zero regard for any social responsibiliy.
Actually, the KOCH brothers have little to do with Capitalism.
They try to rig the system to bypass a true free market place.
The Koch brothers are not Libertarian in way, form, or fashion.
As for Salvochea, he is known more as a Spanish Anarchist which is different from the continental European Anarchist who had Libertarian components in their governance beliefs.
But then I noticed who the OP is and just laughed. Bless his heart!
I am curious what wkmac would add to this thread!
Reading the title may help, bless your heart
And Salvochea was " libertarian", el socialismo was a libertarian paper at heart (anarchism begins with liberty, no matter the - suffix). The "continental" point I don't understand, there were libertarian anarchists throughout the world and remain. But agree on Koch, but I could also add Murray Rothbard for example and then things may become less clear.
I'm going to defend bbsam here somewhat. Thinking back I can't remember bbsam ever offering a criticism of libertarianism by using the Koch Bros. to do so. If proven wrong, so be it. Most of the Koch Bros.= libertarian came from MrFedEx with minor roles played by a couple of others.
bbsam also rightly made the correct observation in saying:
And his observation is dead on the money and I completely agree. The social responsibility part is built into the libertarian model of the non aggression axiom but not who call themselves libertarian fully subscribe to this ideal, Kochs being one example. Political theorist Kevin Carson's "vulgar libertarian" term speaks to this and so does the late Samuel E. Konkin III's term "Kochtopus."
This thread is half-hearted for the use of Koch, I was going to use Murray Rothbard but Koch was more vile;
in response to this exchange yesterday, to understand the context
When you have to go to extreme lengths to explain your attempt at humor or a joke, it just didn't work.
I speak from experience.
"goofball " definition of extreme
not unlike MrFedEx's definition of "lecture"
Need to fix this error; I meant Milton Friedman.
OK, that makes more sense. The Koch's hated Rothbard and the whole Austrian/Misean libertarian faction and it's anti Federal Reserve thinking.
Would still love to hear an idea of just how we get there from here. Libertarian utopia sounds great but wholly unobtainable.
That's why I vote Libertarian unless I actually think my vote could make a difference when I perceive a difference (not often).
still waiting for a road map. So far it's just a set of ideas of "how things should be".
If you ever come to actually understand what libertarianism really is, then you'll never ask anyone for a road map, nor will you need too.
Could be. I can tell you right now it's nowhere evident to any national level that I know of. Maybe I just don't know what it is though.
So do we just elect Libertarians and trust they will implement just ideals without regard to what they plan to do or how they plan to convert the obvious forces arrayed against them? I know. I'm just ignorant. But that's the job of Libertarians isn't it? To educate about their ideas and explain why they are good and how they will be implemented? Democrats and Republicans are expected to do it.
I hope in the context that you want to fit it that it never does.
I never disagree with a man when he's hit on the right answer.
Not applicable. I don't vote and advocate others to do the same as voting is an act of force and coercion. You might see Hoax on voting since he brought it up.
I never interfere with a man on a mission of self discovery.
Be serious! There is enough information in the world of open source that if you were really serious, you'd have already discovered enough to at least make a serious and informed argument on the subject. Even an opposing one.
Liber: latin (adjective) free, free one, root of liberty and liberal
tarian: suffix, to make a choice, to choose
ism: suffix, to act, practice, ideal
yep. Set of ideas of how "things are supposed to be". Fence sitters with their noses in the air. Too smart to teach and too good to vote. Gotcha.
What good is "libertarianism" if it came from someone else? I am self-taught and autodidact, do not believe in master/student type relations. lol
Overall, it would be foolish for a libertarian-type to proselytize a statist-type, since coercion is at the root of many aspects of state dogma!
you and wk are reinforcing my impressions of libertarian thought. We can't get there from here. Its just more intellectual masturbation by "self-taught" anti establishment folks. Nothing wrong with that. It just goes nowhere.
OK, let's see where this goes. There is a store or bank down the street. What keeps you from robbing it? What stops you from killing someone? What stops you from lying to someone else? Now take each one of these and in each case, doing so would clearly serve to benefit you if carried out, even benefit your family and in each case it's guaranteed you would never be caught. Never punished, never judged, not even by a god.
Under those conditions, is there anything that would stop you from doing any of these?
Separate names with a comma.