Local 2727 update

oreana123

Active Member
uppssup please realise that the OBD1 &2 systems are latecomers and very simple dianostics. The complexity of the UPS aircraft far exceed the complexity of your vehicles, ask me how I know....I worked automotive repair for years. I do not lessen the job you and your guys do, I am going to say apples and oranges, no compare.
Also, the talk of a strike here is not necessarily the tactic that will be used.
UPS will never be held hostage by AMTs. That is not a good simile for a work stoppage. If, by not working, the AMTs should cause a majority of the air cargo to stop, then that would seem to pretty much prove that they are major players in the scheme of things. My previous post about the airworthiness release is worth looking at from the standpoint of the responsibility of the position. And responsibility is the basis of many positions at UPS. Why pay managers as much, why pay VPs as much? Responsibility. The AMTs at UPS have a very large responsibility.
 

upssup

Well-Known Member
I can speak from experience on the aircraft side as well. Former AC mechanic in the Air force. I have a different view to the whole arguement. Northwest Airlines mechanics tried this same ploy and guess what. They became unemployed real quick. Suddenly these former mechanics had to "humble" themselves to the lower, almost insulting pay and benefits that the rest of us earn. I know enough current and former aircraft mechanics that have this "holier than thou attitude towards the rest of the world but you know what. In any given day My mechanics move as many packages, if not more than yours. Infact some of my guys maintain the GSE and the air trailers that you desperately need to move air. They appreciate what they have and will do the job asked of them. I wish you the best in your vain attempt at more, more and more but I guess I cannot support the logic.
 

ajblakejr

Age quod agis
Airplanes are nice.
Trucks are used to bring the freight to the airplanes.

Trucks are used to bring the freight to ocean containers, too.
Ocean containers move UPS freight, too.

If you plan to hold us all Hostage - just do it finally.
The freight will move coast to coast and overseas - it just won't fly.
 

upssup

Well-Known Member
Exactly my point. Why if you trully feel that way would you take the position that you deserve more money and benefits than the rest of us.
 

oreana123

Active Member
OK upssup, because of the marketplace. If you cannot accept the idea that the AMT position is extremely technical and has critical facets and unlimited responsibility, take a look at the payscales for AMTs at Southwest Air and now even Fedex. In the time that this company has delayed negotiations for pay increase for the position of AMT, these two airlines have continued to give annual payraises to their AMTs that now exceed the current pay of UPS AMTs.

So it seems that the outspoken posters on this thread fall into a few general positions: those who feel that AMTs at UPS are currently overpaid, those who feel that this position deserves no pay increase, those who have a problem with the AMT's union or have been somehow slighted by brusque behavior of an AMT, those who succumb to hyperbole (holding hostage) instead of rational thought, and, all by themselves, those pesky AMTs.

upssup would like me to justify more money and benefits than the 'rest of us', for the position of AMT. There are a lot of positions at UPS that have better pay and benefits than upssup does, yet apparently upssup has fixated on the AMT position and pay, not on any other job classification. I do not know what to say, apparently the marketplace in the USA sees AMTs in a different light than you do.....

If you approached an AMT at UPS and asked that person in a reasonable manner what the problem is with the contract that UPS managment has been offering Local 2727, you would find that AMTs are concerned about other concepts than pay alone. Nothing gets a Teamster at UPS in a more contrary mood than suggesting that a new contract contain language that makes that person pay out-of-pocket for health care. And rest assured that a compensating pay raise is not a part of that plan. Another sticking point is the concept of retroactive pay. Retroactive pay is, of course, pay due to AMTs for not walking off the job when their contract expired, as mandated by the Railway Labor Act. That UPS managment does not want to fairly compensate their AMTs for retro pay to the day the contract expired, is outrageous in the eyes of the AMT staff. For all of the hue and cry about the AMTs at UPS striking, no one here has posted any form of thanks to the AMT staff for continuing to work without a contract, and no praise or thanks is necessary, as long as full retro is paid. Thats how it should work, assuring continued execution of duties by the AMTs, and removing the need for haste in contract negotiations, because the new contract pay will be paid TO THE DAY. Needless to say, UPS managment does not want to pay retro, offering small bonuses instead.

Scope. The concept of scope is so big, I certainly don't have much of the full picture. It encompasses a bigger picture, basically covering the question of who will maintain the aircraft at UPS? And even those scope concepts that UPS and Local 2727 have agreed to, have been violated in foreign countries and are currently a subject legal proceedings that have been decided in favor of the AMTs union, though UPS continues to spend untold monies on in a futile attempt to get their way. And that way is to have foreign workers peform maintenance on UPS aircraft in places like China. So when comments are made here that UPS AMTs should watch out for their jobs, as other laid-off AMTs will take their place, the makers of those comments do not understand that UPS wants to outsource their maintenance work to foreign countries, not to AMTs laid off by other US airlines.

So these are some of the concepts that AMTs at UPS are dealing with in their contact negotiations. As time goes by, the AMTs will not be alone with an expired contact, the pilot's union is nearly done with their contract, I am sure that the various drivers' contracts will be expiring. Despite continued profitability, UPS will use every resource to give as little as possible at the bargaining table, Unions will ask for as much as possible, it was always this way. Wish the AMTs and all hourly employees the best of luck....
 

UPSSOCKS

Well-Known Member
OK upssup, because of the marketplace. If you cannot accept the idea that the AMT position is extremely technical and has critical facets and unlimited responsibility, take a look at the payscales for AMTs at Southwest Air and now even Fedex. In the time that this company has delayed negotiations for pay increase for the position of AMT, these two airlines have continued to give annual payraises to their AMTs that now exceed the current pay of UPS AMTs.

So it seems that the outspoken posters on this thread fall into a few general positions: those who feel that AMTs at UPS are currently overpaid, those who feel that this position deserves no pay increase, those who have a problem with the AMT's union or have been somehow slighted by brusque behavior of an AMT, those who succumb to hyperbole (holding hostage) instead of rational thought, and, all by themselves, those pesky AMTs.

upssup would like me to justify more money and benefits than the 'rest of us', for the position of AMT. There are a lot of positions at UPS that have better pay and benefits than upssup does, yet apparently upssup has fixated on the AMT position and pay, not on any other job classification. I do not know what to say, apparently the marketplace in the USA sees AMTs in a different light than you do.....

If you approached an AMT at UPS and asked that person in a reasonable manner what the problem is with the contract that UPS managment has been offering Local 2727, you would find that AMTs are concerned about other concepts than pay alone. Nothing gets a Teamster at UPS in a more contrary mood than suggesting that a new contract contain language that makes that person pay out-of-pocket for health care. And rest assured that a compensating pay raise is not a part of that plan. Another sticking point is the concept of retroactive pay. Retroactive pay is, of course, pay due to AMTs for not walking off the job when their contract expired, as mandated by the Railway Labor Act. That UPS managment does not want to fairly compensate their AMTs for retro pay to the day the contract expired, is outrageous in the eyes of the AMT staff. For all of the hue and cry about the AMTs at UPS striking, no one here has posted any form of thanks to the AMT staff for continuing to work without a contract, and no praise or thanks is necessary, as long as full retro is paid. Thats how it should work, assuring continued execution of duties by the AMTs, and removing the need for haste in contract negotiations, because the new contract pay will be paid TO THE DAY. Needless to say, UPS managment does not want to pay retro, offering small bonuses instead.

Scope. The concept of scope is so big, I certainly don't have much of the full picture. It encompasses a bigger picture, basically covering the question of who will maintain the aircraft at UPS? And even those scope concepts that UPS and Local 2727 have agreed to, have been violated in foreign countries and are currently a subject legal proceedings that have been decided in favor of the AMTs union, though UPS continues to spend untold monies on in a futile attempt to get their way. And that way is to have foreign workers peform maintenance on UPS aircraft in places like China. So when comments are made here that UPS AMTs should watch out for their jobs, as other laid-off AMTs will take their place, the makers of those comments do not understand that UPS wants to outsource their maintenance work to foreign countries, not to AMTs laid off by other US airlines.

So these are some of the concepts that AMTs at UPS are dealing with in their contact negotiations. As time goes by, the AMTs will not be alone with an expired contact, the pilot's union is nearly done with their contract, I am sure that the various drivers' contracts will be expiring. Despite continued profitability, UPS will use every resource to give as little as possible at the bargaining table, Unions will ask for as much as possible, it was always this way. Wish the AMTs and all hourly employees the best of luck....

Give it a rest.. No one cares...2727 will continue to work as instructed.. You are just confirming the stereotypes about mechanics.. Stop crying and WORK AS INSTRUCTED...
 

ajblakejr

Age quod agis

Like this?
2vp2gq4
 

fxdwg

Long Time Member
2727 has to step up (or siedways) and resolve their issues with UPS.

Their PEAK is coming up and it is the most important time of the year!!!

Don't let Fedex and others steal your revenue!!
 

airbusfxr

Well-Known Member
Brother, dont worry these couple of clowns have no idea what goes on at UPSCO. The is an airline thread, they post and show us how much they know. These guys post on every thread, on every subject, and know nothing about any of them.
 

UPSSOCKS

Well-Known Member
Brother, dont worry these couple of clowns have no idea what goes on at UPSCO. The is an airline thread, they post and show us how much they know. These guys post on every thread, on every subject, and know nothing about any of them.

This is coming from a guy that thought the ground would support him during a strike. This is also coming from a guy who has been talking about a strike for almost two years now. I'm not sure if I would take his advice or word on any topic..
 

oreana123

Active Member
Give it a rest.. No one cares...2727 will continue to work as instructed.. You are just confirming the stereotypes about mechanics.. Stop crying and WORK AS INSTRUCTED...
Well I did not think I'd go for very long before upssup would become petulant. The point is that you have been informed of some of the difficulties that 2727 is facing. You have been informed of your ignorance of the issues (OBD1 pleeeze). Now you make your informed comments.
 

mrv

Well-Known Member
We got our retro turkeys today. Two gift cert for a turkey or a ham! Another coming in Dec. Can't wait for my retro saftey award, I'm going to get two BBQ's.
 

oreana123

Active Member
airbusfxr I too have to turn an airbus at my station.
It always surprises me how much envy a ground sup would have for our responsibilities. The ground maintenance on my ramp equipment is shameful and it is maintained by.....a ground sup! I often am called to make adjustments to UPS vans and trucks, their maintenance shows by the general rundown condition with even a quick look .
My purpose in posting here is to educate those that have an interest in the effects of the continued contract negotiations- UPS management vs 2727. I don't think that I will gain support from those whose minds are made up by jingoistic ideas fed to them by either side of this contract negotiation. Better to say that whatever happens in future 2727 affairs and its effects on UPS will be no surprise.
I would like UPS managment to take a hard look at employees like upssup in the future and lay a lot of the responsibility for work actions (and not just by 2727 members) at the feet of uneducated employees like upssup.
 

mrv

Well-Known Member
I can speak from experience on the aircraft side as well. Former AC mechanic in the Air force. I have a different view to the whole arguement. Northwest Airlines mechanics tried this same ploy and guess what. They became unemployed real quick. Suddenly these former mechanics had to "humble" themselves to the lower, almost insulting pay and benefits that the rest of us earn. I know enough current and former aircraft mechanics that have this "holier than thou attitude towards the rest of the world but you know what. In any given day My mechanics move as many packages, if not more than yours. Infact some of my guys maintain the GSE and the air trailers that you desperately need to move air. They appreciate what they have and will do the job asked of them. I wish you the best in your vain attempt at more, more and more but I guess I cannot support the logic.
Its a shame you did not pursue a career in Aircraft Maintenance after you left the AF. Had you put in a little effort you would be making a lot more money and would be a lot less bitter.
 

oreana123

Active Member
This is coming from a guy that thought the ground would support him during a strike. This is also coming from a guy who has been talking about a strike for almost two years now. I'm not sure if I would take his advice or word on any topic..
Again, this post shows complete ignorance of the process of obtaining a contract. UPS AMTs will only be allowed to use a work action like a strike, if the current administration allows it to happen. The mediator in charge of allowing Local 2727 to do this, is appointed by the dept of labor.
As a item of interest concerning this situation (of not being allowed to walk off the job in a strike), UPS managment made a claim that the Local 2727 negotiating board did not represent their work group accurately. A series of questions was sent to each AMT, and it turned out that the 2727 labor group completely supported the negotiators. So upssocks, the work action would have already occurred, save that UPS AMTs are law abiding citizens. The Obama Administration has not allowed this to happen...
The statement "I'm not sure if I would take his advice or word on any topic" again shows a complete ignorance of one of the basic tenets of working as an AMT: it is a law that one must be truthful. Upssocks, whether you know it or not, your company depends on airbusfxr's advice and word every day that he works on aircraft. The delivery of packages from your trucks also depends on it. In fact, airbusfxr's word and advice is reviewed on a daily basis, his managment team depends on his word and advice. How can you possibly denigrate his word?
Upssocks, are you so sure that the teamster locals on the ground side will not honor the Local 2727 picket lines if a work action occurs? Do you have any real information about that statement? Again, it seems very ignorant that one so unadvised would comment on the airline board.
 

UPSSOCKS

Well-Known Member
Again, this post shows complete ignorance of the process of obtaining a contract. UPS AMTs will only be allowed to use a work action like a strike, if the current administration allows it to happen. The mediator in charge of allowing Local 2727 to do this, is appointed by the dept of labor.
As a item of interest concerning this situation (of not being allowed to walk off the job in a strike), UPS managment made a claim that the Local 2727 negotiating board did not represent their work group accurately. A series of questions was sent to each AMT, and it turned out that the 2727 labor group completely supported the negotiators. So upssocks, the work action would have already occurred, save that UPS AMTs are law abiding citizens. The Obama Administration has not allowed this to happen...
The statement "I'm not sure if I would take his advice or word on any topic" again shows a complete ignorance of one of the basic tenets of working as an AMT: it is a law that one must be truthful. Upssocks, whether you know it or not, your company depends on airbusfxr's advice and word every day that he works on aircraft. The delivery of packages from your trucks also depends on it. In fact, airbusfxr's word and advice is reviewed on a daily basis, his managment team depends on his word and advice. How can you possibly denigrate his word?
Upssocks, are you so sure that the teamster locals on the ground side will not honor the Local 2727 picket lines if a work action occurs? Do you have any real information about that statement? Again, it seems very ignorant that one so unadvised would comment on the airline board.

Stop typing such long replies, you are crossing that line where people simply just don't read your long posts anymore. Real information? No one will support a bunch of overpaid, whiny mechanics. Pretty simple.. They have been lazy far too long, and now they are paying the price for years of laziness. The company is much leaner now, and mechanics were part of the fat that needs to be trimmed. If they don't like it quit... I bet none of them will. You want to talk about ignorance, the part about AMT's required by law to be truthful?? I don't think that law governs a message board.. You are one of those folks that people are laughing at and not with I bet....
 

oreana123

Active Member
OK I get your feelings for AMTs at UPS, upssocks. It is a shame you can't read long posts, but with the way that every post is dissected, I want to be very specific about what I post. And there is so much......Again the ignorance of the poster comes to mind when you make such statements as, "mechanics were part of the fat that needs to be trimmed". Unknown to you, and probably foreign to your business model, there is a minimum requirement for numbers of mechanics per aircraft. Since UPS saw fit to retire certain aircraft (after sinking untold numbers of dollars in upgrades in them $$$$), mechanics were laid off. UPS is already rehiring mechanics to cover staffing at gateways. Iwish you were at the planning meetings when UPS decided to put cockpit upgrades in the DC-8s, you could have told the pilot's union rep that he was whiny and part of the fat that needs to be trimmed. Oh well, that money is gone now with the aircraft.
I am glad you commented about the law to be truthful, you have no idea that the Feds will revoke your license to work on aircraft, if you are caught in a lie. So yes, it is against the law to lie. Is that hard to understand, or do you want me to give specifics?
So keep on dodging the facts. No comment on the contract process? No comment on the upcoming co-incidence of expired contracts? No comment on the ignorance of non-airline and non-union posters who relate the same tired old threats for those who dare to ask for a fair contract? No comment on the demonization of the very people so necessary to the continued functioning of the UPS airline (and let's face it, overseas airline delivery is where the profits are).
 
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