Maine Layoffs

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Crowldog, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member

    Here's my story...

    I'm a full-time driver with a seniority date of 7/5/06. I made my full progression January 5, 2009. (2 1/2 years). Yesterday (Friday) I was notified along with 4 others from our Metro Sup that we are laid off and "bumped" inside. The metro sup then asked who will be working the pre-load and/or local sort? My response was, "you owe us f/t drivers (out of progression), 8 straight hours. No response. I sent another message similiar. Their response, "we're offering only morning and night shifts to get your guaranteed 8 hours". I responded again with the "8 straight" entitlement. My cell metro sup! "I've been reading through the contract, we don't owe you 8 straight. We guarantee you 8 hours...but you were hired AFTER 1993, therefor you are not entitled to 8 straight."

    I then contacted my steward..."they're wrong" he said. So myself, along with the other 4, have filed grievences for working 8 straight hours. As we return to the building, our steward tells us...we'll fight for 8 straight, until then do what they ask. That's fine...we all can play the game. So...we all booked into the pre-load then local-sort to get our 8 hours.

    Then the subject of pay comes up. Over 90% of the drivers talking all said "when you're out of progression, they can't bump your pay." The other 10% say..."you'll get bumped to TOP inside rate." Our steward says they're all wrong. The Union hall informed him that...WE WILL GO INSIDE AT THE SAME RATE WE STARTED AT WHEN FIRST HIRED AS PART TIMERS, PLUS .35 CENTS. Well, that figures out to be pennies. Approx an $18 hour pay CUT! And what that also means (if that's the case) is that drivers that had started with UPS EARLIER, will be getting LESS due to the fact "starting pay" was LESS at their time of hire! It makes NO SENSE! My union is telling me that I'm actually going to go inside as a laid off F/T driver and make LESS than ANYONE on our part time shifts!!?? We don't have ONE employee that makes as little as I did when I started 3 years ago! Any input or help with this???

    The Union also informs us that UPS is fighting with all they have to keep us OUT of 8 straight hours. If we work 8 straight, we'll get our drivers pay due to the fact that we'll drive for 4 hours after the pre-load, or before the local-sort...whichever shift we're on. When you get drivers pay for the whole day worked. Makes sense. So as long as they keep us out of the 8 straight deal...they have cut payroll tremendously.

    And last but NOT least...
    Last year our center had a huge layoff due to OTHER F/T drivers from ANOTHER center (with more seniority than us in progression) transferring to our center for driving jobs. I was in progression, so had no say in the layoff. I (and others) were told "we owe those drivers 8 straight hours. They have the right to go anywhere in the state to drive. Sorry you guys in progression loose out...but we got to give them 8 straight, they're out of progression". The very SAME center that SENT the drivers to our building had 5 drivers retire. 2 bids got hung up for replacement of those jobs. 1 driver originally from that center (working out his progression in ours until he can bid back) actually got to go back EARLY due to lack of drivers in that building. No problem. He has LESS seniority than 2 of the "laid off" drivers in our building. We ask our sups..."is he driving? If so...we'll go there to drive because of seniority". "Yes he is...they're so understaffed, sups are pulling runs!" our manager told us. The very same metro sup who had laid us off 1 hour earlier! We are then told to report to that center at 8:30am Monday. No problem...problem solved! Nope! 2 hours later...the same sup calls us back and says..."no one is going there...they've laid the other driver off also...and will be using their OWN personel." ***??!!

    So...we go right back to the situation I stated earlier in my post. Bumped inside...and bumped pay. Grievences flying everywhere...and no answers (at least not consistant ones).

    Any help? Info? Ideas?

  2. redshift1

    redshift1 New Member

    I believe when getting bumped back you receive the top inside rate.
  3. Dark_Team_135

    Dark_Team_135 Member

    Like almost everything else this all depends on your regional contract (actually layoffs are covered in our Local Rider so that supersedes the Central Region Supplement here).

    In our Local drivers are laid off according to their total company seniority (part time plus full time) which seems fair since someone could get hired directly off the street into a full time position and be working over another employee that has been employed 20 years but not as long full time.

    Anyway, the laid off driver is allowed to bump 2 part time employees and work two shifts as long as the driver has more total company seniority. This would force the driver to work a split shift since our building only has two shifts with a gap in between them. We have classification seniority by building so we can't use seniority to displace junior employees at other nearby buildings either.

    The driver is paid whatever rate that his total company seniority would earn if he had always worked the part time job. So a driver with 10 years total would get paid the same as a 10 year part time employee and is only guaranteed 7 hours per day (3.5 hours per shift!) The employee could also choose to draw unemployment if they choose. This language really sucks but we are stuck with it until 2013.
  4. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member

    I will post what I read in my NNE district supplement. I'm taking it as they have to give me 8 straight along with my's the way I read it. BUT...the last phrase is about determining pay and hours. It ends with..."until they have completed their progression. At this completion they will be entitled to the normal eight (8) hour guarantee."

    Nowhere can I find what the "8 hour guarantee" consists of. If you're hired BEFORE Aug 1, 1993 you're guaranteed eight (8) continuous hours of work at you're present pay. Unless the inside f/t job you are performing is a higher rate, which you receive such higher wage.

    They state while you're in progression and laid off...your pay is determined by date of seniority. But if you're out of progression...and after '93...all you get is "entitled to the normal eight (8) hour guarantee."

    Can't make sense of it.:angry:

    Thanks for your interest in my topic...can use the help!

    P.S. In Maine...we don't have the option of taking un-employment! They can give you LESS than you'd collect...and you have to take it!:biting:
  5. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member


    In New England you don't get an 8-hour guarantee until you have completed your full-time pay progression. All you get is the standard part-time guarantee of 3.5 hours.

    You are paid the part-time rate of the job you are doing on layoff according to your company seniority. In other words, your pay rate is determined as if you were a part-timer all along, without having gone full-time.

    Any one laid off who was hired before August 1, 1993 gets the 8-hour guarantee and the top part-time rate, (which is equal to the top driver's pay or close to it.)

    I assume UPSers in Maine can bump anywhere in the state because you are all in one state-wide Local.
  6. caspers1

    caspers1 New Member

    go to full time combo works social group and read. We are having the same thing happen at DFW Dallas hub .

  7. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Just to clarify:
    Crowldog, you will get the 8-hour guarantee, since you just (barely) completed your progression. But other members who are on layoff and still in progression will not get the 8-hour guarantee.

    7/5/06 is your full-time seniority date. Did you work part-time before that? It's your Company seniority date that determines your layoff pay rate. The earlier the date, the higher your hourly pay.
  8. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member as I take it...

    I'm out of my progression, and making full rate. I'm guaranteed 8 hours. But at whatever my inside rate would be if I never became f/t? I can understand that. What of the wording about 8 straight? If hired before '93 it states you're guaranteed 8 continuous hours. Is that the case for me now that my progression is through? Thanks for the help!
  9. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member

    yes I did...amazingly only 9 weeks though. My hire date was 4/8/06. So...I'm entitled to 8 hours (could be split) and whatever my inside rate would be after 2 1/2 years (apprx) inside time. I can understand that.
  10. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Those hired before '93 get "continuous" 8-hours. Those hired after '93 get "normal" 8-hours.

    I say "normal," in this context, means "continuous." But UPS may disagree. If they do, your BA will have to do his job and argue the case.

    Article 66 also says the hours of work shall be worked in uninterrupted succession. But that's for a normal day's work. Not sure if it applies to a layoff situation. Again with vague language, it's up to your BA to make the case.

    Article 67 says there is no deadheading at a lower rate of pay between shifts. I assume this includes getting paid zero for several hours while you wait for the next shift to start.

    You already know that Article 67 says you get the higher pay all day if you work in two different pay categories during the day.

    Good Luck.
  11. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member you think I have any ground to stand on with the fact they brought other f/t drivers from other centers in last year? I am sure they had dates after '93...and I was bumped in order for management to honor their 8 straight hours.
  12. PAS'd out

    PAS'd out This ain't rocket science


    I would call Ken Eaton or Alan Churchill personally and get the scoop from them. This is no disrespect to the stewards but on something like this I would want to talk directly with a BA. I have found that they are generally pretty good at getting back to you.
  13. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member

    PM sent to you...
  14. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Crowldog, I don't have any experience with a state-wide Local. My Local 42 just has one building in Lynnfield, Ma. Your Maine Local 340 may have bidding and bumping rules and proceedures beyond what is in the Contract, but you would have to ask your BA.

    A grievance has to be filed in five days or so (Article 48,) so you may not be able to file on the full-time drivers from other centers who bumped you last year, even if there was something wrong with the way they did it. You could always bring the matter up as a talking point though, in the course of discussing your current layoff situation.
  15. New Englander

    New Englander New Member

    I'm in NE and this is how it works. I've spoken with my BA as well.

    You get 8 straight hours if your out of progression. Though you are only going to get the rate of the highest paid part-timer in your building.

    You don't get driver pay.
  16. mattwtrs

    mattwtrs Retired Senior Member

    Back in the 80's we had fulltime drivers that would have to work preload and then deliver a 1/2 trip for their 8 hour day. That 1/2 trip was 90-100 stops close to the building.

    The contract back then was a lot shorter & simpler!
  17. Red Dawn

    Red Dawn Member

    u think thats bad... dfw (airport, ground and air opp) loosing midnight to world hub. witch 3 combos work. about 80 combo workers....well ups has decided to get rid of all of us 22.3 workers 118. just found out last tue. being replaced by part time employees. brought in and told to pick from list right then and there or u go to bottom of list all have 3-4 brakes between them not allowed to pick ones that would be guess is cause then i would still be 22.3 employee..list changed 5 times from tue.-Fri..and just got call today that they have another one..and not letting top group rebid...we have at our hub 700 part time employees. we have ground and air opp. working. i was told same about pay and guarantee 8 from ups union is saying no.. the union has a stack of grievance that will be filed on feb 8.. i know this may not make sense..but thats what going on i have all list and keeping in contact with all my friend on other combo. we are all confused by what ups is doing when the contract is so clear about layoffs..
  18. Crowldog

    Crowldog New Member

    and am I smoking my lunch or did I read in our contract that UPS has to pay you your normal rate for 10 days after a layoff, then they can bump you to whatever rate your shift is? I could of SWORN I read that...if so, can anyone tell me what section it's in?!
  19. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    you will go back to your old rate of pay. (which technically since you are very new it isn't very old). 12/hr? roughly