Major Fail At Our Ground Terminal Already

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
That is why FedEx has an enormous "legal war chest" to fight the lawsuits coming from HOS lawsuits or accident/injury lawsuits. At this point it is still cheaper for FedEx to fight the lawsuits than hire the sub contractors. At some point that will change and they will be forced to replace the subs with employees.
What makes you think that? As shipping rates continue to increase and volume continues to increase, why do you think the lawsuits would ever overtake the "war chest"?
 

werenotthepostoffice

deep down inside I really do not care
What makes you think that? As shipping rates continue to increase and volume continues to increase, why do you think the lawsuits would ever overtake the "war chest"?
Business economics dictate at some point it makes more fiscal sense to adopt the UPS model and make everyone an employee. Or,maybe,the SCOTUS will rule in Fred S's favor and allow the 1099 model they are using now. If the 1099 model wins out,the entire U.S. workforce could face a paradigm shift.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Business economics dictate at some point it makes more fiscal sense to adopt the UPS model and make everyone an employee. Or,maybe,the SCOTUS will rule in Fred S's favor and allow the 1099 model they are using now. If the 1099 model wins out,the entire U.S. workforce could face a paradigm shift.
If you believe that the courts are fair and political favor is not for sale, you may be right. I'm far more skeptical.
 

werenotthepostoffice

deep down inside I really do not care
If you believe that the courts are fair and political favor is not for sale, you may be right. I'm far more skeptical.
There is nothing "fair" about our court system and those that believe as such are being disingenuous. That said,we never know how the SCOTUS will rule(chief justice Roberts ruling in 2012 on the Affordable Care Act)I would think the 1099 ruling would stand at FedEx and some other businesses while,as a whole,not being applied to other industries.

I am truly torn on the issue as I see the routes as an opportunity for someone to own a small business and live the American dream but giving diving FedEx a fiscal advantage over competition because they have a fixed cost per package v.s. a estimated cost based on varying overhead at UPS.

As a driver for UPS I am more concerned for my fellow drivers but from my prior career, I see the economic advantage as brilliant.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
There is nothing "fair" about our court system and those that believe as such are being disingenuous. That said,we never know how the SCOTUS will rule(chief justice Roberts ruling in 2012 on the Affordable Care Act)I would think the 1099 ruling would stand at FedEx and some other businesses while,as a whole,not being applied to other industries.

I am truly torn on the issue as I see the routes as an opportunity for someone to own a small business and live the American dream but giving diving FedEx a fiscal advantage over competition because they have a fixed cost per package v.s. a estimated cost based on varying overhead at UPS.

As a driver for UPS I am more concerned for my fellow drivers but from my prior career, I see the economic advantage as brilliant.
That's interesting because it isn't the court preventing UPS from employing the same model. If anyone is causing the "unfair advantage" isn't it UPS' labor agreements with the IBT? That's not something the courts will touch.
 

werenotthepostoffice

deep down inside I really do not care
That's interesting because it isn't the court preventing UPS from employing the same model. If anyone is causing the "unfair advantage" isn't it UPS' labor agreements with the IBT? That's not something the courts will touch.
Another time,another tread we'll continue the discussion,it's nice to engage someone with more intellect than a box of hammers on these forums, but for now I'll keep it lighthearted and simple.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
That's interesting because it isn't the court preventing UPS from employing the same model. If anyone is causing the "unfair advantage" isn't it UPS' labor agreements with the IBT? That's not something the courts will touch.

Another time,another tread we'll continue the discussion,it's nice to engage someone with more intellect than a box of hammers on these forums, but for now I'll keep it lighthearted and simple.

Nice to see two adults have an intelligent conversation in the FedEx forum without name calling and it getting ugly. :)
 

werenotthepostoffice

deep down inside I really do not care
Nice to see two adults have an intelligent conversation in the FedEx forum without name calling and it getting ugly. :)
And I work for UPS.Imagine that,a teamster speaking intelligently. Honestly,I'm only a 10 year UPSER.
I am retired,due to medical reasons,from a Japanese company where I spent over 17 in management. I was in charge of endorsements for a musical instrument company.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
And I work for UPS.Imagine that,a teamster speaking intelligently. Honestly,I'm only a 10 year UPSER.
I am retired,due to medical reasons,from a Japanese company where I spent over 17 in management. I was in charge of endorsements for a musical instrument company.

I have friends who are Teamsters. I know intelligence is not in short supply on that side.
 

werenotthepostoffice

deep down inside I really do not care
I have friends who are Teamsters. I know intelligence is not in short supply on that side.
Most people think of teamsters as big brutes with thick necks and no brains. In my center almost half of the drivers have bachelor degrees and one of our drivers was a registered nurse.

Times are different. We have drivers that got their start at UPS in a down economy and realized the income is,generally,equivalent to what they would make working in their chosen field.

As I said I am retired from another field and could have stayed inactive but I was bored and a single parent so I,actually,did need the insurance UPS offered. I worked in the hub for about 5 years and the driving opportunity presented itself. Five years later,I no longer smoke I weigh less than I ever have (except the year I spent on chemo,but that doesn't count) and am in better physical shape than I ever was except the 4 years I spent in the Air Force.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that one of the reasons this so called "independant contractor" model was created was it gave the company another party to whom it can dump as much risk, liabilty, and variable costs onto giving it the opportunity to better estimate and lock in it's profits. Not to mention the fact that the Ground-Express disconnect has served as a deterent to well capitalized hedge funds and private equity groups trying to get a larger degree of control.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Keep in mind that one of the reasons this so called "independant contractor" model was created was it gave the company another party to whom it can dump as much risk, liabilty, and variable costs onto giving it the opportunity to better estimate and lock in it's profits. Not to mention the fact that the Ground-Express disconnect has served as a deterent to well capitalized hedge funds and private equity groups trying to get a larger degree of control.
And?
 

dvalleyjim

Well-Known Member
That is why FedEx has an enormous "legal war chest" to fight the lawsuits coming from HOS lawsuits or accident/injury lawsuits. At this point it is still cheaper for FedEx to fight the lawsuits than hire the sub contractors. At some point that will change and they will be forced to replace the subs with employees.

The problem is that drivers are told to fudge their hour of service. This is a trucking industry standard when trucking companies use paper logs. At FedEx ground if you come in at 4:30 am and sort your truck until 8:15 you put your start time a 8:15 and work to 20:15 then close your scanner in a half hour. No one goes over hours of service or the driver gets terminated after 6 times in a year. Most drivers just walk off the job, leave the truck, etc. Great service, Great company.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
The problem is that drivers are told to fudge their hour of service. This is a trucking industry standard when trucking companies use paper logs. At FedEx ground if you come in at 4:30 am and sort your truck until 8:15 you put your start time a 8:15 and work to 20:15 then close your scanner in a half hour. No one goes over hours of service or the driver gets terminated after 6 times in a year. Most drivers just walk off the job, leave the truck, etc. Great service, Great company.
What type of lunatic comes in at 4:30?
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
DVJ: You are describing a practice we did for years. The area and this is no lie, The area was so big and just the 4 of us We went in at 5:30AM.Load our own trucks, try to get out by 8:30 . Nobody got back before 9:00PM. About 10:30 or 11 somtimes midnight occasionally 3:30 AM . We looked like the 15th Air Force coming back from Ploesti Some how they found a way to back up the hours to make it look legal. It went on for years.
 

dvalleyjim

Well-Known Member
DVJ: You are describing a practice we did for years. The area and this is no lie, The area was so big and just the 4 of us We went in at 5:30AM.Load our own trucks, try to get out by 8:30 . Nobody got back before 9:00PM. About 10:30 or 11 somtimes midnight occasionally 3:30 AM . We looked like the 15th Air Force coming back from Ploesti Some how they found a way to back up the hours to make it look legal. It went on for years.

If you go in and load your truck for 2 hrs., drive an hour to your route. That's 3 hours you haven't got paid because you are on salary. Then you work 10-12 hrs. that's 5 to 7 hrs. you haven't got paid for. That means that everyday FedEx expects you to work a full time job for free!

This is why the ISP model is illegal. Slave labor, as far as I know, is illegal! Check my math I've been drinking.
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
If you go in and load your truck for 2 hrs., drive an hour to your route. That's 3 hours you haven't got paid because you are on salary. Then you work 10-12 hrs. that's 5 to 7 hrs. you haven't got paid for. That means that everyday FedEx expects you to work a full time job for free!

This is why the ISP model is illegal. Slave labor, as far as I know, is illegal! Check my math I've been drinking.
Talking about working Sunday in my ground terminal, I will be the first on the phone to the state d.o.t.
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
If you go in and load your truck for 2 hrs., drive an hour to your route. That's 3 hours you haven't got paid because you are on salary. Then you work 10-12 hrs. that's 5 to 7 hrs. you haven't got paid for. That means that everyday FedEx expects you to work a full time job for free!

This is why the ISP model is illegal. Slave labor, as far as I know, is illegal! Check my math I've been drinking.
If you're getting paid salary then you are getting paid to load the truck and drive. None of that makes sense.
 
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