Making Unions Matter Again
- Thread starter hubrat
- Start date
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Which brings to mind the obvious question:
How much more efficient would the Governments be able to provide services if they were not so Unionized?
I'm Just Saying.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
I love the union just because of people like you..... the exact reason unions exist.... so keep you whining up and just be you. Gives every teamster hope. Beat your chest and act important. Maybe you will scare a few.....
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
What if they held no exclusive monopoly on the "services" they provide and it's "customer" base wasn't "forced" into a use and/or pay for relationship with it?
Oh, I'm just saying too!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2010/10/20/public-sector_unions_choke_taxpayers
(I'm sorry but I don't know how to post a URL other than to C&P it)
(I'm sorry but I don't know how to post a URL other than to C&P it)
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
I'd be willing to bet a majority of ppl don't understand unions. I grew up down the street from United Rubber Workers union hall. We thought they were gangsters that had a BBQ once in a while.
That percentage of unionized government workers is part of the 7% of unionized Americans. Again, my hunch is a lot of the remaining 93% don't have a clue.
I work for a private, for profit corporation. We get paid for a service that we provide at least adequately. Every American working in our company pays money to OUR government so that other unionized employees can provide......what?What exactly is their union doing for them? Getting them paid 30,000 for a teacher to educate our children and a cop to protect our streets?
No situation will ever go 100% our way. People need to grow up, learn some tolerance and patience, and respect The Other Side for their differences, not in spite of them. No more bipartisan bs. The people have to do something. The government won't, yet they're still taking our damn money.
Like the lady said, "But after seventy years of unsuccessful attempts at technocratic legislative, legal and regulatory approaches to expanding unions, there is no time like now to try mass social movement unionism.
With a ratio of one organizer for 1,000 organizing conversations in neighborhoods nationwide, just 2,000 union organizers could engage 2 million people—and that's plenty to create an untenable crisis that the elite will have to deal with"
I could tell 1,000 peeps about the Teamsters. Heck, just talking about it here and to our friends and family will help.
The Teamsters as an organization align themselves with the left, but I know there has to be more than a few conservative Teamsters. We can work together. Does the organization need improvement? Of course. So do I. So does my company and my country.
Above all else, the Teamsters are about striving for fairness. That's what I would like for people to think of when they here about the union I belong to.
Thanks for the Article Upstate. I emailed the other one to my local's prez, now I'm gonna send this one. I tried to read wkmac's but I can't get past the pop ups.
That percentage of unionized government workers is part of the 7% of unionized Americans. Again, my hunch is a lot of the remaining 93% don't have a clue.
I work for a private, for profit corporation. We get paid for a service that we provide at least adequately. Every American working in our company pays money to OUR government so that other unionized employees can provide......what?What exactly is their union doing for them? Getting them paid 30,000 for a teacher to educate our children and a cop to protect our streets?
No situation will ever go 100% our way. People need to grow up, learn some tolerance and patience, and respect The Other Side for their differences, not in spite of them. No more bipartisan bs. The people have to do something. The government won't, yet they're still taking our damn money.
Like the lady said, "But after seventy years of unsuccessful attempts at technocratic legislative, legal and regulatory approaches to expanding unions, there is no time like now to try mass social movement unionism.
With a ratio of one organizer for 1,000 organizing conversations in neighborhoods nationwide, just 2,000 union organizers could engage 2 million people—and that's plenty to create an untenable crisis that the elite will have to deal with"
I could tell 1,000 peeps about the Teamsters. Heck, just talking about it here and to our friends and family will help.
The Teamsters as an organization align themselves with the left, but I know there has to be more than a few conservative Teamsters. We can work together. Does the organization need improvement? Of course. So do I. So does my company and my country.
Above all else, the Teamsters are about striving for fairness. That's what I would like for people to think of when they here about the union I belong to.
Thanks for the Article Upstate. I emailed the other one to my local's prez, now I'm gonna send this one. I tried to read wkmac's but I can't get past the pop ups.
tieguy
Banned
tieguy
Banned
the problem with your argument would be the right to work states that your closed union shop can not organize. Those upsers are exposed to the benifits of unionism yet often refuse to join.
Those upsers are harassed into joining yet often do not do so.
the government in todays world mandates many of the things the unions fought for 80 years ago. As a result people no longer feel they need a union.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
I had to read your post multiple times before I felt I could respond, and I'm sorry for the long comments. Your post says a lot, but in the end, I see huge disconnects.
First, I do not think unions are not a bad thing. Collective bargaining is good, and it helps balance supply and demand. A group of people united have a much stronger voice than those people have individually. There is no question in my mind that because of the Teamsters, UPS employees have more than they would have without the Teamsters.
There are other "necessary evils" that go along with those gains. They are part of the process. Its insincere to take credit for all the good and not also take responsibility for the other side of the coin as well (progressive discipline, documentation, metrics, etc.). They go along with the territory.
I find your comment on aligning with the left an interesting...
Did you know that the Temasters PAC only gives 2% of its donations to Republicans?
Public Sector PACS (Government) only give 8% to Republicans?
I'm not sure this leads to balance......
UPS by the way gives 55% to republicans.
Finally, a lot has changed in the last 100 years from when unions were necessary to protect the weak and defensless. Today there are regulations, a world economy, global communications, technological advancements and much different working conditions.
Back to the thread yopic... To make unions matter, they need to be seen as a positive force for all Americans. A few times a CNBC video was posted comparing FedEx to UPS. Don't you find it stunning that at the end the commentator says that UPS' unionized workforce is reason enough to NOT invest in the company?
That statement goes way beyond UPS managment and employees. It cuts to the average american who may have meager investments. So, let me ask this question.....
Where are Teamster dollars invested? Where are dollars of those here invested?
Are they only invested in companies that have union employees? Are they only invested in companies that don't care about profit? Or is it invested like I do in reputable companies that have hopes of long term PROFIT GROWTH.
Like it or not, Unions are a business too. To make unions matter, show how unions can help businesses be better. How unions help GROW PROFITS.
To say unions are about fairness and not recognize that the enemy is NOT your own company won't work. Figuring out how to take more and more of the pie slice from shareowners won't help when the pie is being made smaller by non-union workers.
The common enemy should be non-union companies. To make unions matter, customers should want to pay your wages not turn their shipments to non-union companies as they do today.
Time to build bridges, not walls.
Interesting post by you. Happy New Year.
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
The company is not the enemy. IMO we need to quit searching for one. "We have met the enemy and he is us."
The union needs a lot of improvement. I have not stated anything to the contrary. It seems to me it would improve in the process of helping the country. WTF would it hurt to try? Nobody else has any great ideas, IMO folks are just arguing about whose at fault. This country needs to get it together somehow.
Every person, organization, thing, even abstract ideas have a dark side. Everything on this planet. Folks need to grow up and learn to tolerate a little ambivalence. You did say necessary evil, but IMO too much attention is paid to it.
I am not at all surprised at the comment about not investing in a union company. The unions need to make some BIG changes FAST. Who is going to start the ball rolling? We pay them to represent us so they darn well better listen to us, not act like they're government and wait for them to move. I think it was WI that a couple companies had started with two-tiers. People need to be aware of that and it's implications.
You and me discussing this is a fine start. But someone somewhere it gonna haft move their ass. All I know how to do is write.
The government is not going to fix this. People need to learn how to communicate, to REALLY understand where "the other side" is coming from. To see that everyone has valid concerns for valid reasons. No one group is ever going to have 100% their way. Sometimes things will seem unfair. Ppl need to over it so we can at least have responsible communication.
You and I seems to agree on a lot. That definitely facilitates communication. Learning to truly hear where the other guy comes from takes effort. Validating them when we disagree takes effort. Responsible communication is a learned skill.
IMO it all boils down to respect. That is where it will start.
Probably alot better... The bad seeds have ruined it for everyone. Now that the IBT just about powerless, the company is free to do whatever they want. So many worthless teamsters have created a chip on managements shoulder that everyone has to pay for it, including management. You talk about very small issues on here like greivances, and turkeys. The important matter is out of the IBT's hands and the hand that matters is coming down very shortly......
Huh? I'm not sure when I have ever whined. People like you whine to me every day, and I suspend them without pay, take their jobs, and replace them with cheaper help....
PT Stewie
"Big Fella"
Socks where have you been I haven't' missed you ! LOL .
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Im sure you do big boy..... you keep spouting on here like a big boy.... never translates.... and guys like me will be around long after you are gone. We have 100 drivers in my building... cant remember the last time one was actually let go and it stick.... so much for you powerful thugs
tieguy
Banned
Some good points .
I've always thought that some union leader someday somewhere who understands business will work some contracts that include profit sharing and make his members a ton of money.
While I understand the need for unions to protect its members I think the relationship between union and company is way too antagonistic.
companys are from Mars unions are from venus?
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