management and numbers...

[UnconTROLLed]

Perhaps you were doing a number just before you wrote this ... creative!

I have been to AA meetings and I can say this:

You are not an alcoholic for how much you drink, or how often; but how the alcohol impacts your judgement and the decisions you make while intoxicated.

competely OT..

 

[slantnosechevy]

No my dear you are not at the bottom of the hill. I am. I am in business development. My office turns back flips to get your SLIM lead credited to you so you can get what ever bonus you get in addition to a paycheck that is higher than mine. This at the depravation of my "numbers".

If you think you are at the bottom of the hill you have never stepped foot into my office. We are the toliet. All the feces are dumped on us and furthermore we are forced to take it and like it. If we have any objections to how we are treated they start on a project to systematically get rid of you. Spend an hour in my office and you would have a whole new outlook on your position.

Every job at UPS is micro managed and I'm sure you feel yours is the bottom but it's not even close. Probably a p/t preload supe is the bottom. This company has moved in stages depending on the CEO and what division they came from. With Rogers it was moving into the air delivery; with Oz it was a customer service oriented company; with Kelly it was labor issues; and Eskew put I.E. to the forefront. Our present chief stroker in charge is a numbers guy who isn't from UPS and that should explain everything as to why things are like they are.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Our start time was actually pushed back 15 minutes starting yesterday. We now start at 8:45 on Mondays and 9 the rest of the week. The extra 15 minutes is invaluable in trying to get the air off by 10:30.

Our start time is dependent upon us getting our loads in from Syracuse and Albany on time, which is why we weren't starting until 9:15. There were many days that the preload was wrapped by 8:45 and we would have to sit and wait until 9:15.

Hopefully we can go to 8:30 on Mondays and 8:45 the rest of the week.

 

[tieguy]

Sounds like many of us wish we had gone to work for some other company that does not chase numbers so aggressively. Perhaps a GM?

 

[brownmonster]

Starting me 10 minutes later would increase my stop count because I wouldn't have as much time to look for ground while delivering air. It would increase my miles because I would have to break off more to chase air and go back thru the route. Brilliant move. Miles and stops is money!

 

[pretzel_man]

The numbers are important as long as they are based on reality.

When the numbers arent based on reality....or when the number becomes more important than the business element it was intended to measure (this is a quote from P-man) then we start having problems.

The numbers are NOT based on reality. They are made up, fictious, bogus whatever you want to call them but they are numbers. You can count a package only so many times. The numbers ARE more important than the business element it was intended to measure. So, are we having problems? You have been around longer than me. Tell me what you think.

Since I was quoted, I will take the opportunity to add my two cents. (it may be more than 2 cents)

I stand by my about how numbers can be misused, but I also ABSOLUTELY think numbers are important. All good businesses use metrics to help with its evaluation and course corrections. We should care about numbers but the right numbers.

I care about my kids college GPA. I want them to learn, and GPA is supposed to be a measure of that. On the other hand, I don't want them to cheat or take basket weaving to bring their grades up. I also expect the professor to design tests properly to measure their performance.

So while there are some in management that manipulate the numbers, this doesn't make all management bad or make the numbers improper.

Lets use your analogy of an alcoholic. Some managers are alcoholics. I'll give you that. They can't tell the difference between a fine wine and Ripple. They only care about the result.

The answer is not to get rid of the numbers, but to rehabilitate (train) the managers or get rid of them.

UPS has excellent metrics. (The most misunderstood is over allowed, so lets leave that out for now.) To say that they are "made up, fictious, bogus" is silly.

Take a look at our service measurement. Since we started the detailed measurement, service is at its highest level ever. Every single package is measured and operators cannot manipulate the numbers.

So, I agree that if a manager only cares about making a number move, that's a problem. These numbers are what's called lagging indicators. They change AFTER something else has improved.

A good manager knows what truly needs to change so that the number improves as well.

P-Man

 

[Channahon]

Numbers are a way of life in the business world and if you think about it, your personal life as well.

Business measure their successes by numbers, be it a production number, profit number, number of jobs needed and employees.

And numbers are based on historical data, and I can say after all my years in UPS management, the bar has always been raised. That's not to say the numbers were attainable, but I always took the position if I made improvements from the previous year, to run a more effective operation or increase customer satisfaction, then I could explain my numbers.

I had seen UPS management lose their jobs over numbers manipulation, and that was a choice made by that management person. By the same token, I have seen hourly people as well lose their jobs by inflating numbers.

In your personal life, you may use numbers to plan your family, how manage a budget, how many pets you can afford, how many cars are needed, how much to save for retirement, and so on.

Just my thoughts on the numbers in our lives at work and home.

 

[tiegirl]

Where is our present chief from? I thought he was a long time UPS employee. That could really answer a lot of question I have about the company because it has just been in the last few months those elusive numbers have become so important.

Every job at UPS is micro managed and I'm sure you feel yours is the bottom but it's not even close. Probably a p/t preload supe is the bottom. This company has moved in stages depending on the CEO and what division they came from. With Rogers it was moving into the air delivery; with Oz it was a customer service oriented company; with Kelly it was labor issues; and Eskew put I.E. to the forefront. Our present chief stroker in charge is a numbers guy who isn't from UPS and that should explain everything as to why things are like they are.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

UPS' "numbers" are always correct. Any contingency that can happen in your day was calculated in when they did their initial studies. The fact that it would appear most UPSers feel that they are expected to perform at a level that is not realistic is not the fault of the company. Remember, feelings cannot always be trusted.

 

[705red]

Starting me 10 minutes later would increase my stop count because I wouldn't have as much time to look for ground while delivering air. It would increase my miles because I would have to break off more to chase air and go back thru the route. Brilliant move. Miles and stops is money!

Ups is counting on the drivers to continue to go up and work off the clock, by sorting through their trucks and pulling out of the building reducing am time. If my start time was pushed back I to would deliver airs and grounds separate.

Where is our present chief from? I thought he was a long time UPS employee. That could really answer a lot of question I have about the company because it has just been in the last few months those elusive numbers have become so important.

Actually our CEO came to ups when Ups purchased the company he worked for. He NEVER worked his way up through the rank and file of ups and this is why we are having these problems! What did he make 8 million last year? Yet we have people that have been with ups longer then him laid off from their combo jobs and their lives turned upside down!

 

[1989]

Each route is different numbers wise. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
If I am 2 1/2 hours over everyday, so what.
If another driver is between 2 and 3 hours over on the same route, so what.
But if that driver is a consistant 1 hour over on the same route. I should have a problem. That is an apples to apples comparison.

 

[wisedragonfly]

Actually our CEO came to ups when Ups purchased the company he worked for. He NEVER worked his way up through the rank and file of ups and this is why we are having these problems! What did he make 8 million last year? Yet we have people that have been with ups longer then him laid off from their combo jobs and their lives turned upside down!

This is the hardest of all UPS decisions for me to understand. I have a problem that our CEO did not come up within the ranks. Then I read some where that Scott Davis made more money than any other of our past CEO's, who gave the blood, sweat and tears to carry Jim Casey's plan for the company. It makes me wonder if all the cost cutting within the district were made to increase the CEO's financial gain.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Sounds like many of us wish we had gone to work for some other company that does not chase numbers so aggressively. Perhaps a GM?

I have no problem with a company that chases numbers, but I do have a problem with management that cheats the contract, cheats employees (stealing time for ex) and forces unsafe work conditions upon the very people that are carrying the load.

no matter the position or operation.

That is the whole point of this post. The supervisors and managers that are fair and honest generally do not recieve promotions, do not get bonuses and are generally cast away. There is no bonus for doing the right thing.

 

[ups1990]

UPS, is so numbers oriented. They hold us accountable for our SPHORS numbers. Yet, the biggest integrity issue is their time study numbers. Many drivers that work extremely hard are either an hour in the hole or scratch. No one seems to be making incentive.

 

[pretzel_man]

This is the hardest of all UPS decisions for me to understand. I have a problem that our CEO did not come up within the ranks. Then I read some where that Scott Davis made more money than any other of our past CEO's, who gave the blood, sweat and tears to carry Jim Casey's plan for the company. It makes me wonder if all the cost cutting within the district were made to increase the CEO's financial gain.

Its not like Scott Davis just got here. He's been with UPS over 20 years. He's a good, honest, and smart man.

There really is nothing sacred about a CEO that starts in the rank and file. George Smith did not start with UPS either. Like Scott, he began as an accountant.

Like George, I think Scott is brown blooded. I trust in his leadership.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

That is the whole point of this post. The supervisors and managers that are fair and honest generally do not recieve promotions, do not get bonuses and are generally cast away. There is no bonus for doing the right thing.

You know, I've been here 33 years. I pride myself in honesty and integrity. If there's anything that I've demanded from people that report to me its integrity.

I've promoted many people in my years and have been promoted a few times myself. I've attended countless people meetings all all highly ranked candidates are of highest ethics.

Now, these highly regarded managers can ALSO deliver results. Getting results and acting with honor are not incompatible.

Yes, I've seen some that have achieved "numbers" in a less than admirable way. From my experience, their behavior eventually catches up with them.

P-Man

 

[brownmonster]

My old center manager achieved the numbers the dis-honorable way. He/She is now on the outside looking in. Took down the DM on the way out.

 

[tieguy]

That is the whole point of this post. The supervisors and managers that are fair and honest generally do not recieve promotions, do not get bonuses and are generally cast away. There is no bonus for doing the right thing.

i would have to disagree on that point. We have gone through and probably have not seen the end of a period where companies are falling right and left. Some of them were thought to be every bit as solid as UPS. Yet we are riding through it and surviving it without the mass scale layoffs these other economic beheamouths have undergone. There something to be said for being on the right ship and surviving the hurricane.

Whether you care to admit it or not those same immoral, lying , thieving and totally worthless management folks are the ones guiding the ship right now...

 

[rod]

Sail on Captain Hazelwood

 

[UnconTROLLed]

i would have to disagree on that point. We have gone through and probably have not seen the end of a period where companies are falling right and left. Some of them were thought to be every bit as solid as UPS. Yet we are riding through it and surviving it without the mass scale layoffs these other economic beheamouths have undergone. There something to be said for being on the right ship and surviving the hurricane.

Whether you care to admit it or not those same immoral, lying , thieving and totally worthless management folks are the ones guiding the ship right now...

Why are you bringing economics into this? UPS is still very profitable through these hard times and you cannot deny that. It is not as though UPS is close to going under - that ain't happenin, so no point in bringing up the woe-is-me, poor UPS profits are down under a billion for the quarter.

This entire post was and is based on the premise that I am aware of a management team that was nailed for cheating employees, cheating the system and generally BUILDING UP TO running an unsafe operation while expecting numbers that were impossible for employees to attain.

Day by day, week by week, this built up and the integrity lessened and the flexibility of the operation was compromised.

It is not as though this is a wild misconception of mine, this is reality and I am glad these managers are in UPS prison until their next great scheme to manipulate and cheat the system.

It will happen again, and I will be posting again when it happens, and surely you will be posting the same mumbo jumbo about the economy somehow making it acceptable to lie and cheat the same people that come in every day and make it happen and service packages for you and everyone else in a management or supervisor role.