Management in Browns

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
The original poster nor the person he quoted mentioned anything about attendance issues being the reason for supervisors doing bargaining unit work.

Attendance issues are still no reason for supervisors to be consistently doing bargaining unit work.

I should have quoted Tie. Had I done so, my post would have made more sense. Attendance issues are still no reason for supervisors to be working???? Dude...no disrespect intended but have you seen the state of some hubs' Reload/Twilight Sorts??? Ours is royally friend%&$ed up. Even with supervisors stepping in to help, the entire building STILL blows up. I count a MINIMUM of 2 belts off at any one time on that sort. And on mine......dude, you don't even wanna know what we look like somedays. I saw my full-timer unloading one day when we didn't have doubleshifters. The supe saw me on the aisle, FROZE in position (looked kinda like a deer in the headlights...very funny:lol:) and went back to work as I gave a jovial wave and smiled. No, I'm not going to join in a grievance unless supervisors are working to p*ss me off, in absolute frustration or are abusing the ability to work. As I believe I stated earlier, I'd probably grieve if I was in Lobo's position. -Rocky
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Sounds like you have a staffing issue. Allowing supervisors to work only hides the problem.

Yeah, a big staffing issue, particularly on my sort. Same people doubleshifting pretty much since mid-July. I know the $$ is good but if this keeps up, these people are going to burn out right when we need 'em most--late November and December. I'd have to agree that supe's working just hides the problem. However, people willing to doubleshift--other than those I just mentioned--are getting harder and harder to come by. I wonder why? -Rocky
 

govols019

You smell that?
You start filing and they start hiring. Until you do that they will give you every excuse in the book. That's how they play the game.
 

gray squirrel

Well-Known Member
In our center, supervisors sort the belt, load trucks, make moves from truck to truck, wear browns, deliver bulk stops, and even run full routes. We don't like it, but no one wants the extra 10 to 15 stops per car if they broke a route. Supervisors even deliver in package cars with their street clothes on. Our stewart sees all this and says nothing. We all like things to run smoothly, but it is getting out of hand. I think 2008 will be a scary year for UPS.
 

BCFan

Well-Known Member
sounds like your stew is a company suck up---the go-along-get-along crew..... we had a few like that but they are being weeded out by the rank and file..... actually the on car sups welcome the grievances because its really not their job to do delivery work...they dont wanna be out slingin' cardboard , they would prefer to be in A/Ced office sexually harassing the OMS's BC (could be Brown Cafe) (but its not!)
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
I once worked in a district where summer just happened to be "AFLAC" season in one center. Talk about staffing issues. .

I can tell you the last resort is to have UPS management do hourly work. They don't like it and would rather work with available employees, however sometimes there are none. And if there are hourly employees avaialbe to do the work, then greivances should be filed to put an end to the management not honoring the contract.

On the flip side, how should management handle unplanned absenteeism? You can only give hourly people so much work and someone needs to do the rest to service the customer.
 

govols019

You smell that?
In our center we have enough part-time cover drivers to cover unplanned absenteeism.

There has only been one time in the last 5 years that management has had to run a route. That was an extraordinary day and several of us went to help her to make service to our customers.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
You FILE, FILE, FILE a greivance every time a sup works! No where in the contract does it make an exception for a sup to work, it says sups will not work! If you come to work on time and do the job the right way how can you be retaliated against? If they attempt tp discipline you for bs, i (steward) would step in and inform them of their unfair labor practice for harrasing a member for filing a greivence. Yes i have gotten more work and a piece of crap truck for my efforts but i also get paid double time for 9.5 and with all of these contract violations the company actually pays me double time for filing these contractual violation grievances, so see it all balances itself out! File File File!
 

brownrodster

Well-Known Member
The original poster nor the person he quoted mentioned anything about attendance issues being the reason for supervisors doing bargaining unit work.

Attendance issues are still no reason for supervisors to be consistently doing bargaining unit work.


Well, it would suck to get a few new drivers then promplty lay them off for months on end when everyone is uninjured / back from vacation, etc...

Supervisors driving seems necessary sometimes. I think your center sounds terrible and they should get new drivers, but in my center if they got a new driver because a supervisor drove every once in a while then that new driver would be bummed because he'd be laid off too much.
 

area43

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a big staffing issue, particularly on my sort. Same people doubleshifting pretty much since mid-July. I know the $$ is good but if this keeps up, these people are going to burn out right when we need 'em most--late November and December. I'd have to agree that supe's working just hides the problem. However, people willing to doubleshift--other than those I just mentioned--are getting harder and harder to come by. I wonder why? -Rocky

Rock no disrespect, but welcome to the real world. Burn out. LOL I ve been with UPS 22 years. 2 1/2 pt(am loader and unloader) and 19 1/2 full time Pkg driver to the present. I averaged for the last 19 1/2 years drivng with my lunch included 10 to 11 hours a day. Christmas I will hit easily 12 hours a day. Boy, do I look forward to that. These people need to tuff in up. I don't want to hear them cry. Don't come to me for sympathy or anyone else for that matter. They just don't make humans like they used too. Well, at least not all humans. UPS is a tuff physical Job. If you can't hang than just leave. Pusses. LOL Double shift. "Works" good for you. Keeps your britches up over your waste not down to your ankles. Ask Jim. The ass kicker. I agree that UPS needs to start caring more about the part timers. UPS needs to pay them more. Peroid. But than again, were starting or have been living in a society where hard work is foreign to alot of young people. Rock Im not referring to you. ( :
 

area43

Well-Known Member
File a grievance on the guys not coming to work. Make them pay the grievance for the sup working.

LMAO, Tie I knew you were going to go back to that old line. By the way folks that was handled extensively in another post. "Over Allowed" by BrianBrown. Go to the archives and check it out. To quote one of Tie's lines, "Otherwise File Away". permalink 89. Lets not get side tracked here. Remain on topic. Two wrongs don't make a right. "Contract" its an agreement between two parties. A promise perphaps to do what your supposed to do or agreed to dooo. If one violates a particular article does that give the other the right to violate another. Hmmmm. If my neighbor robs a bank and gets away with it. Does that mean I can rob a bank too. It seems like there is some ill logical behind that. Tit for Tat perphaps.
 

area43

Well-Known Member
I once worked in a district where summer just happened to be "AFLAC" season in one center. Talk about staffing issues. .

I can tell you the last resort is to have UPS management do hourly work. They don't like it and would rather work with available employees, however sometimes there are none. And if there are hourly employees avaialbe to do the work, then greivances should be filed to put an end to the management not honoring the contract.

On the flip side, how should management handle unplanned absenteeism? You can only give hourly people so much work and someone needs to do the rest to service the customer.

Hi Chan. I love that middle paragraph. I almost in quoting you wanted to idit the rest out. LOL The big thing I want to point out is that the Upper Brass is dispatching its sups nationally as drivers. Ok, about handling unplanned absenteeism. I feel the sups have to accept some degree of blame on this. What Im about to say dosen't make it right, but I have seen it go on. center manager and Sups don"t treat everyone equally. That means one of their pets is let off(sick) for whatever reason on a consistent basis and that does not set well with other employee's. Thus creating them to call in sick(remember mental health). I have seen this occur.

This is just a side note. I believe UPS should have NEVER went public. I believe it has only hurt the Company. Jim Casey would have never allowed it. Too much is riding on the bottom line. Sacraficing service, the Employee, mgt and customers has become the statis quo. I remember the days before we went public. Yes, we had problems,but not to the extent we have now. From 85 to 2000 when I worked at UPS before we went public was totally different. I hardly or rarely, rarely saw a sup touch a package. I can only speak about our center. Now, its common practice. Why is that? UPS knows this is a very physical Job. Were Athletes. Professional Atheletes. Mgt tends to forget that. Check out some of the NFL, NBA or other sports and check out their Injury roster. Some can be prettttty lengthy to say the least. UPS needs to take that into account. Hire more drivers and put them in reserve(pt lay off). Yes, it will cost more, but you will allaveate some of these probems. UPS is and has started running their operations to the man and now it is starting to "bite" back at them.

Again, what should mgt do about absteenism? Curious, I wonder what would happen if Cms and Sups, would organize and just stop doing hourly work immediately. Kind of like a strike. Yes, pkgs would be missed. It would be a national UPS crisis. UPS and the Teamsters would, I believe have to call an emergency session to correct the problem immediately. Nip it in the butt. Believe me folks, the Teamsters dont want to lose pkgs to the competitor that are non-union.

This than brings me too the history of the Unions. Have you ever read the book by Upton Sinclair " The Jungle". Unions started in this country in the early 1900's. Their goal was to help out the hard and I do mean hard working workers. As we all know the meat packing, automaking, and any other factory or production line of work was brutal. The 16 hour days, no vacations, Ins, the long lines outside of people waiting for you to drop out so they can take your place on the line,etc,etc. The Unions came in and gave protection to the hard working workers. What has happened now is that the Unions are starting to protect the Poop birds. I understand there can be abuses on each side. I live in a right to work state(Va.), highly conservative area(I am a Teamster conservative, LOL) too say the least. What I find funny is that many of the people around here are anti-union, but when UPS has openings their the first is line to get the job. LMAO. Hypocrites

Anyhow, I believe Jim Casey had some commpassion for the workers in his day. Old School workers, folks. Jim invited the Teamsters in. Yes you can make the case that sooner or later the Teamsters would have invited themselves in. LOL. Jim saw that the union could be a good thing. A system of checks and balances. Treat others how you would want to be treated. Jim had a vision and he saw that in times past how companies would treat their employees like disposable goods. Respect and loyalty was a common virture. Also promptness. ( ;

In closing. center manager and sups. I agree. Excessive abesentism is a problem that should be worked out in the contract. The company should not agree to something they no very well they are not going to honor. My advice if you don't like the attendance policy don't sign on the contracts dotted line. Go ahead, hang us Teamsters out to dry. Its been a little over ten years since the last time you did. I need some party picket time on the line. Hey, Jonnie past me another cold one. area 43 out. ( :
 
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Coldworld

60 months and counting
just to add that it's getting as bad as I have seen it in my nearly 15 yrs. of service, as some know I have a 22.3 pre-load/feeder wash combo job,....friday as I was doing my yard check I watched as the on-cars took out actual routes, and the rest of the "suits" using their own cars...... and I see all the new p/t air drivers picking up hours after the pre-load running meets etc. all this goes on while "my buddy" is still waiting for the "investigation" regarding the USERRA law and weather or not he should have a friend/t job, after a 4y. stint in the marines and my steward???? he enjoys the OT which as a 22.3 employee is not allowed for anyone but him and other clerks....interesting...he refuses to try and create more 22.3 jobs by ignoring whats happening because "for him" and the other p/t steward, they were lulled into NOT filing grievances, by being pacified w/OT.....$$ talks......me???? I'm like the 3 monkey's hear, speak and see no evil....... 8-N-SKATE.........

You mean ups is trying to fire a marine who has been on active duty for the last four years....please. Isnt there a federal law against that. As far as im concerned, ups should have to pay a hefty fine for that. I remember a few years ago when ups said they were going to pay all armed services employees their work pay minus what they received from the military if they were in iraq or afg. They really got some good press on it, and I really was proud of the company for doing it, wow, something very positive from a company that continues to get bad press on different things. Was this "buddy" in iraq? Please keep us posted!!
 

BCFan

Well-Known Member
File a grievance on the guys not coming to work. Make them pay the grievance for the sup working.


LOL Tie I really don't think thats a possibility , we don't file on our good union brothers and sisters when there are plenty of green sups that cant keep their hands off of packages:thumbup1: Its like FREE MONEY$$$$$ We all like FREE MONEY even you Tie, I'd bet:mellow: BC (not big chicks)
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
LOL Tie I really don't think thats a possibility , we don't file on our good union brothers and sisters when there are plenty of green sups that cant keep their hands off of packages:thumbup1: Its like FREE MONEY$$$$$ We all like FREE MONEY even you Tie, I'd bet:mellow: BC (not big chicks)

I don't have a problem with sups delivering a few air stops, bulk stops, or even excess stops once in a while as long as it's not every day and (***----->ONLY<-----***) if all other qualified hourly options have been used and their still isn't enough people. The problem though is that it's happening at least several times each week, if not every day, and to me that means they need to hire more drivers. The contract says that sups are only allowed to deliver packages so that they'll make service but that shouldn't be happening but maybe once in a blue moon but here it's happening almost every day. So, based on that and the fact that many of us are still part-time, yet, working full-time hours, I'd say that management is abusing that article.
 

dudebro

Well-Known Member
From the management side, file the grievance where you see it. The system exists partially as a mediation board and partially as a communication system. It lets the higher ups in the system both in labor and management know that there's a problem.

Supervisors should be TRAINING, OJSing, or doing safety rides, etc. It doesn't make the center team any stronger when the supervisor goes out alone.

Contracts should be adhered to as much as possible. When it becomes absolutely necessary they can be broken, with the stipulation that the party that breaks the contract owes the other party some financial recompense for the breach. It's all business and not personal.

There's a fine line between management pitching in an extreme case, and management consistently working. In the first case, you're not causing a teamster a job. I was grieved for working in one of our hubs on Dec 17th a couple years back. The volume came in 40k over forecast and every Teamster available, plus all the seasonal hourly help we could get our hands on, was working. I handed the steward my ID so he could spell my name properly, then directed him to the article where the contract allows management to work in only these cases, when necessary to service the customer and only if every available union employee within 1 hour of that building was working. The grievance was denied at arbitration. The next night our volume was in line with projections. I supervised. I didn't have a problem with the steward. Keep in mind you need to work with that person again in the future.

The other case is if a union hourly is being laid off or sent home and management is working. This is a problem. It's not supposed to happen, and that's what the grievance process is for. The excessive unplanned absences are what the DISCIPLINE process is for. Most stewards I've worked with fought hard for those who came to work and respected the job. These same stewards usually had little time for those who were constantly absent for no reason. You defend the employee who wants to work, not the one who doesn't. That's how it should be.
 

area43

Well-Known Member
From the management side, file the grievance where you see it. The system exists partially as a mediation board and partially as a communication system. It lets the higher ups in the system both in labor and management know that there's a problem.

Supervisors should be TRAINING, OJSing, or doing safety rides, etc. It doesn't make the center team any stronger when the supervisor goes out alone.

Contracts should be adhered to as much as possible. When it becomes absolutely necessary they can be broken, with the stipulation that the party that breaks the contract owes the other party some financial recompense for the breach. It's all business and not personal.

There's a fine line between management pitching in an extreme case, and management consistently working. In the first case, you're not causing a teamster a job. I was grieved for working in one of our hubs on Dec 17th a couple years back. The volume came in 40k over forecast and every Teamster available, plus all the seasonal hourly help we could get our hands on, was working. I handed the steward my ID so he could spell my name properly, then directed him to the article where the contract allows management to work in only these cases, when necessary to service the customer and only if every available union employee within 1 hour of that building was working. The grievance was denied at arbitration. The next night our volume was in line with projections. I supervised. I didn't have a problem with the steward. Keep in mind you need to work with that person again in the future.

The other case is if a union hourly is being laid off or sent home and management is working. This is a problem. It's not supposed to happen, and that's what the grievance process is for. The excessive unplanned absences are what the DISCIPLINE process is for. Most stewards I've worked with fought hard for those who came to work and respected the job. These same stewards usually had little time for those who were constantly absent for no reason. You defend the employee who wants to work, not the one who doesn't. That's how it should be.

It will vary from center to center on sups abusing the article. As far as using the "extreme case" seniro. That has a broad definition to most center manager's and sups. I agree, you need a good working relationship between the sup and steward.
 
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