management layoffs

[ches2009]

Probably not.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

most of you must not have been around in the mid 90's, UPS tried reducing management, it failed miserably. Not that there aren't people at all levels that don't carry their weight but be careful what you ask for. It is kind of like me saying district managers don't do anything or IE staff managers don't do anything, I have never been one, they may do more than I could or I would, reducing them may cause more harm than good. I try not to talk too much about things I know nothing about, I can speculate but unless I have walked in someone's shoes I could never be the expert on what their contribution means to the business.

just my 2 cents.

Please don't try to inject rationale into this thread!

 

[bones]

Please don't try to inject rationale into this thread!

My fault, I'll go back to only reading and never posting, I don't put near as much stock in my own opionion as most people put in their own opinions ayway.

 

[pissedoffmanager]

most of you must not have been around in the mid 90's, UPS tried reducing management, it failed miserably. Not that there aren't people at all levels that don't carry their weight but be careful what you ask for. It is kind of like me saying district managers don't do anything or IE staff managers don't do anything, I have never been one, they may do more than I could or I would, reducing them may cause more harm than good. I try not to talk too much about things I know nothing about, I can speculate but unless I have walked in someone's shoes I could never be the expert on what their contribution means to the business.

just my 2 cents.

I agree with you in one respect, because I do remember the 90's, and all that happened then. My point is that now the company has overcame and even gotten worse since then when it comes to pt sups. The center I was manager of had a ratio of almost 4:1 for pt sups vs hourlies. When you have that ratio, it is to much, and frankly 10:1 is even to much IMO. The problem with PT Sups is they have no real power OVER DRIVERS, and every day, and I mean that, every day, I had to listen to some stupid petty problem because the pt sup was looked at wrong, and talked down to by a driver or loader, and they showed no respect to them. The pt sup's are needed, and to fire them all would be stupid, but their ranks do need to be thinned big time. I remember the 90's, and back then it was done the wrong way, even you have to admit that. Let's get the ratio back to a decent amount of sups vs workers, and get rid of some of the deadwood.

 

[LastBest&Final]

Get rid of the 9.5 committees and all the loose wording in the contract. If someone works over 9.5 pay them. You shouldn't have to file. It should just be automatic what is there to talk about. Why should you have to have three 9.5 in a week and then you will put on a list and if they get another three 9.5 in a week will take it to a committee and see if they can fix it. The next quarter we will start over. Make it simple and easy to understand, or get rid of it all together. It's grievance after grievance to committee after committee what a waste. You put name on a list and if you work one day over 9.5 you get paid double simple. The people who want overtime will get it and the people who don't won't. I never seen any part of the contract that had more grievances filled on it than that. It a waste of money and it just pisses both side off. Almost all the grievances would be avoided if the contract was written better. Look at the man hours it's taken just fighting stupid stuff. If you can't enforce it way have it in there.

 

[iamoverit2]

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

You don't know the game yet obviously.

Approach the sup and stand there drooling with your mouth open. Tell the sup working you thought that they were training you. I do that from time to time just to mess with them. For the most part P/T sups are just innocent bystanders doing what friend/T sups tell them to make their numbers. Make a scene if you must. Don't be afraid of the big brown bully. Believe me, I've walked the walk, and if you are deep down strong enough, these jerks have no recourse except harrass and try to intmiidate. See through it, have fun, but don't let them make their phony bonuses which they will do anything and everything possible to recieve. And if they do make the bonuses, make it as non-linear as possible (if that makes sense)

 

[dilligaf]

Last, I agree with what you say, but don't limit it to 9.5's. It needs to be done for the whole contract. Just stop violating the contract. Period.

It is a waste of time, the 9.5 greivances. Last year we had the 9.5 list go up in Jan. With the exception of one driver (idiot), every driver signed the 9.5. How simple is that. Now we have this new and improved sick version. Why complicate things? All it does is muddy the waters. I've already had a panel decision ('07) on 9.5's and they act as if it doesn't even exist.

As far as the number of sup's go, I think we have a pretty good ratio. We have 17 bidded rtes, with 6 utility drivers for backup. A total of 23 FT drivers, not including air drivers (3). I think right now we have 1 or 2 cover drivers. We have 4 sup's- preload, am, pm and local sort. Each of their shifts overlap about an hour, so the office is never unmanned (theoretically-however this is not always the case). Then we have 1 (and I am not sure exactly what his title is) on-road sup/ctr mgr. that oversees everything at our ctr. The big bosses (DM and DM) are not at our ctr but less than an hour away. Notice the 2 different sizes in DM, one is Distr mgr and the other is Div mgr.

Now that I think about it, I guess techinaclly the am and pm positions would be OMS's and the preload and local sort would be Sup's. Is there any difference?

 

[trickpony1]

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

Isn't it curious that a pkg car driver can get fired for "padding stops" and/or "padding miles" but a PT supe can't get fired for "padding production" (doing re-tapes, irregs, breaking jams, cleaning grates, loading, unloading).

The work that the PT supes do doesn't show up on any report so they are, essentially, a ghost employee.
It makes their numbers look good.
It makes their FT supes numbers look good.
Everyone is happy.

I would say a PT supe doing union work constitutes falsification and dishonesty which are both terminable offenses.

 

[ups_vette]

Isn't it curious that a pkg car driver can get fired for "padding stops" and/or "padding miles"

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

 

[dilligaf]

And heaven forbid the company would admit they employed (or for that matter, endorsed) mgt personel that harrased and bullied said Teamsters.

 

[stringerman85]

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

It's only considered cheating by UPS management....Too many rules to follow for one simple job...And that's not just driving, That's all the jobs in the company.....If you get the big picture, All that really matters in the world is that the customer gets their package unbroken, and on time to their delivery address, That's all anyone else in the world really cares

 

[ETA]

maybe we could call vette up and put him back on the job, he could help solve this mess it would probably save his family alot on adult daycare

 

[drewed]

We were just casually talking about the what if of management layoffs and it was said theyd go by seniority company wise so with 2 years suping and a year and a couple months as union would put me in line as like 8th out of 28 pt sups, id figured theyd go by some sort of performance based layoffs

 

[UnconTROLLed]

We were just casually talking about the what if of management layoffs and it was said theyd go by seniority company wise so with 2 years suping and a year and a couple months as union would put me in line as like 8th out of 28 pt sups, id figured theyd go by some sort of performance based layoffs

most buildings in my 8 years go by a mix of seniority and performance

one big aspect now is they are targeting sups in our building for stealing time. leaving work on clock or punching in/out earlier or later than actually occured.

 

[drewed]

Yea Id imagine attendance overall would be a big issue coming in late we have that prob a lot id imagine theyre still clocking in their scheduled start time....i know my manager looks into when I clock in and when the actual punch was made in PTRS

 

[705red]

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

I learned at ups a long time ago, that your only as good as your management team! And if you break down the ratio of union employees honesty to managements honesty, its leaning heavily towards management as being the dishonest ones!

 

[drewed]

I learned at ups a long time ago, that your only as good as your management team! And if you break down the ratio of union employees honesty to managements honesty, its leaning heavily towards management as being the dishonest ones!

I hear what your saying Red but Ill use drivers as an example theyre the face of the company, sorters being dishonest will involve the customer generally more then a supervisor being dishonest BY NO MEANS am I justifying it, just the reality why UPS is so hard up on it.

 

[BrownTail28]

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

 

[ups767mech]

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

Hilarious. Typical managment.