Management that smokes, 3 days until cold turkey

Catatonic

Nine Lives
I'm confused as to why you think the div mgr has it worse then mgr?
Doesn't div mgr (level 40s) now get a higher MIP factor % then regular mgr (level 30s)?
Doesn't div mgr have a higher pay scale itself?
They still have a similar job but they are the go between between ops mgr and the ctr mgr and can always blame the ctr mgr.

In staff jobs, I see the district IE mgr having two or three team leaders that report to him and they have their mgrs that report to the team leads.
The direct reports have gone down, just more total people that work for them.
I see similar for BD Director with about 4 director levels reporting to him\her.
Now do the div mgrs get the benefits of stock options like they used to before when UPS stock was always rising?
NO... I'm just curious as to why you believe it's the div mgr that gets the brunt of this? ​
Just to be clear... I believe the brunt is on the lowest levels of us.
The admins, the specialists, the PT supvs.
They get the biggest brunt of the changes.
Then the FT Supvs rank follows them, followed by the mgr. I see impact to div mgr, but I'd put them last on the list of impacted people.

You are looking at it in terms of the last couple of years whilst I was looking at it in the last 10 years.
The context of this thread (as I was answering anyway) was the trend in the last decade of lower level management (19's and below) taking the brunt of cuts imposed on management.
This is being corrected and the difference between the ctr mgr and div mgr is comparable to the gap between sup and ctr mgr.
10 years ago, the pay gap between ctr mgr and div mgr was not significant with some ctr mgrs making more than div mgrs. The main way that the div mgr made the difference was in stock options which have been virtually worthless in the last 10 years.
That was the basis of my point that the div mgr took the brunt of the cuts.
If you think the ctr mgr gets crapped on compared to a div mgr??? believe me, it's not even close.
​Ctr mgr job sucks ... div mgr job sucks petrified donkey dix.
 

curiousbrain

Well-Known Member
You are looking at it in terms of the last couple of years whilst I was looking at it in the last 10 years.
The context of this thread (as I was answering anyway) was the trend in the last decade of lower level management (19's and below) taking the brunt of cuts imposed on management.
This is being corrected and the difference between the ctr mgr and div mgr is comparable to the gap between sup and ctr mgr.
10 years ago, the pay gap between ctr mgr and div mgr was not significant with some ctr mgrs making more than div mgrs. The main way that the div mgr made the difference was in stock options which have been virtually worthless in the last 10 years.
That was the basis of my point that the div mgr took the brunt of the cuts.
If you think the ctr mgr gets crapped on compared to a div mgr??? believe me, it's not even close.
​Ctr mgr job sucks ... div mgr job sucks petrified donkey dix.

I met some division guys from time to time, and they never looked that stressed out. Whereas, everyone below them was either having body parts replaced because they've worked all day for twenty years, or were on stress medication because of their division peers.

Not saying division folks aren't under a lot of pressure, but the difference is striking.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
I met some division guys from time to time, and they never looked that stressed out. Whereas, everyone below them was either having body parts replaced because they've worked all day for twenty years, or were on stress medication because of their division peers.

Not saying division folks aren't under a lot of pressure, but the difference is striking.


The ability of a person to juggle many balls and handle stress well is what tends to get a person promoted to the div mgr level.
The ctr mgr who is not as well organized and tends to concentrate on 1, 2 or 3 things at a time is going to be stressed out.
Div mgrs have pressure applied to them at a much higher rate than does a ctr mgr ... it's how they deal with that pressure is why they are a div mgr.
Someone who is stressed out at a lower level of responsibility will not be selected for the next level.
The pressure gets higher and higher the further up the chain of command a person goes.

Level 20 and up people have their jobs on the line day in and day out.
​All it takes is one major screw up (bad business decision) and they are gone.
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
The ability of a person to juggle many balls and handle stress well is what tends to get a person promoted to the div mgr level.
The ctr mgr who is not as well organized and tends to concentrate on 1, 2 or 3 things at a time is going to be stressed out.
Div mgrs have pressure applied to them at a much higher rate than does a ctr mgr ... it's how they deal with that pressure is why they are a div mgr.
Someone who is stressed out at a lower level of responsibility will not be selected for the next level.
The pressure gets higher and higher the further up the chain of command a person goes.

Level 20 and up people have their jobs on the line day in and day out.
​All it takes is one major screw up (bad business decision) and they are gone.

​Did anyone lose their job for the TNT flub?
 

curiousbrain

Well-Known Member
The ability of a person to juggle many balls and handle stress well is what tends to get a person promoted to the div mgr level.
The ctr mgr who is not as well organized and tends to concentrate on 1, 2 or 3 things at a time is going to be stressed out.
Div mgrs have pressure applied to them at a much higher rate than does a ctr mgr ... it's how they deal with that pressure is why they are a div mgr.
Someone who is stressed out at a lower level of responsibility will not be selected for the next level.
The pressure gets higher and higher the further up the chain of command a person goes.

Level 20 and up people have their jobs on the line day in and day out.
​All it takes is one major screw up (bad business decision) and they are gone.

I knew you were going to say that, and I had this whole thing prepared about what I was going to say back but ... I'll be honest, I don't really care any more.

Look, I'm handling the stress better - next stop, Division.
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
I have seen all levels of mgmt fired or demoted for integrity issues. I've never in 26 yrs have seen a div mgr or higher
fired for performance. Threatened? Yes. Fired? No
 

hangin455

Well-Known Member
I have seen all levels of mgmt fired or demoted for integrity issues. I've never in 26 yrs have seen a div mgr or higher
fired for performance. Threatened? Yes. Fired? No
In the last 10 years I've seen District Managers, Ops Mgrs and Ctr Mgrs demoted for performance issues....None fired but plenty harassed to the point of leaving.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
In the last 10 years I've seen District Managers, Ops Mgrs and Ctr Mgrs demoted for performance issues....None fired but plenty harassed to the point of leaving.


I've seen plenty "forced out" over the years.
Several District Mgr and even more Level 20 and countless 18s.
It was always published as they left for personal reasons or the such but they were effectively fired.

I've also seen many (several dozen) Div Mgrs (18s) demoted, a few Level 20s and four District managers demoted.
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
​I hear Scott is going to be replaced!

Not soon enough, didn't he get a big bonus after the $200 million TNT fiasco?

Oh that's right, people in those positions get big bonuses even when they screw up because, "That's what we have to do to keep 'good' people."

At least that's what the bankers said after they passed the govt bailout to their cronies.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Not soon enough, didn't he get a big bonus after the $200 million TNT fiasco?

Oh that's right, people in those positions get big bonuses even when they screw up because, "That's what we have to do to keep 'good' people."

At least that's what the bankers said after they passed the govt bailout to their cronies.

I understand your thoughts but Scott did not make this decision by himself and probably was not actively involved.
The Board had to approve it and M&A had to approve and I'm pretty sure Risk Management was involved.
There are risks involved in these type of takeovers and knowing UPS, these were identified up front.
These collective entities thought the risk was worth the opportunity but it did not work out.

However, there is no way to paint a pretty picture or give a good spin on this one.

They all did what they could do afterwards ... and that was issue a brief statement ... and never talk about it again.
 

afterthought

Well-Known Member
They all did what they could do afterwards ... and that was issue a brief statement ... and never talk about it again.

It was discussed on the Report Back this year.
I guess they thought they owed management more of an explanation and where we are headed
after this.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I've seen plenty "forced out" over the years.
Several District Mgr and even more Level 20 and countless 18s.
It was always published as they left for personal reasons or the such but they were effectively fired.

I've also seen many (several dozen) Div Mgrs (18s) demoted, a few Level 20s and four District managers demoted.

Just at my building I've seen three DMs demoted back to center manager, all three are no longer with the company. A fourth made it to another building before he got canned, he's currently in jail for embezzling from his church.
Dulles is where Division Mgrs go to die.
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
I understand your thoughts but Scott did not make this decision by himself and probably was not actively involved.
The Board had to approve it and M&A had to approve and I'm pretty sure Risk Management was involved.
There are risks involved in these type of takeovers and knowing UPS, these were identified up front.
These collective entities thought the risk was worth the opportunity but it did not work out.

However, there is no way to paint a pretty picture or give a good spin on this one.

They all did what they could do afterwards ... and that was issue a brief statement ... and never talk about it again.

Right - no accountability at that level, but God help the preload manager whose sort misses a bag of air in a trailer. Heads must roll!
 
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