McCains relationship with JOHN HAGEE....

tieguy

Banned
Many Americans are fed up with Washington insiders, lobbyist, and corperate muscle. Interesting watching far right pundits supporting Clinton over McClain. The system needs an enima, hopefully the plumbing is working in D.C. Obama has his sleeves rolled up waiting to flush the inherited system down the drain.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that Obama is also part of the washington group. What flushing has he done during his time in congress?

This town needs a liberal amount of Drano. There have been 21 national debates, if you don't know the canidates ideas by now, do some research.

I take it you're responding to travelers question as to what new ideas Obama has presented. I have the same question. If Obama is legitimately the guy that will flush the insider system then I would be all for supporting him. Right now in doing my research and watching all those debates I don't see the guy presenting any new ideas and I don't see his track record in congress telling me he will change anything?

Third point the guy sat in reverend wrights pews for twenty years and never objected to his mentors teachings. How can I then believe Obama will be the one to promote change when he couldn't change anything in his own church nor could he change churchs if he disagreed with Wrights teachings? His church record indicates a guy who will not make waves.
 

traveler

Where next? Venice
shudder the thought. Unfortunately we probably need J. Earl to serve another term and give everyone a refresher.

Actually, I did quite well financially during Carter's term. There were still usury laws in New York State and when we moved there I got a 9% mortgage. The good part was that I took a pile of equity our of our previous home and put it in certificates at the same bank and earned 11%. Before he was voted out, I had certificates as high as 15.25%.

When the voters vote in a lemon, make lemonade!
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Where did I read or hear that many of Obama's votes in the senate are neither yes nor no, but "present"??

moreluck,

He voted present 130 times while a member of the Illinois state senate (I don't think it's an option in his current job), this was out of a little over 4,000 overall votes. From the little that I've read about it it sounds like it was a parlimentary tactic unique to the Illinois legislature, but I'm sure that won't stop people from characterizing it however they see fit :happy2:.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
I take it you're responding to travelers question as to what new ideas Obama has presented. I have the same question. If Obama is legitimately the guy that will flush the insider system then I would be all for supporting him. Right now in doing my research and watching all those debates I don't see the guy presenting any new ideas and I don't see his track record in congress telling me he will change anything?

Tie, to answer some of these questions you can start with Jones post in "The Price of change " thread #7 refering to the economy.Then you can refer to his website at; http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
His track record in congress: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?tab=bills&id=400629
Check out his racial speech in America:http://my.barackobama.com/hisownwords
Now go on, do your own research on less polarizing websites ! I've giving you the blueprint, now go to your room and do your homework.You to Traveler:peaceful:


Third point the guy sat in reverend wrights pews for twenty years and never objected to his mentors teachings. How can I then believe Obama will be the one to promote change when he couldn't change anything in his own church nor could he change churchs if he disagreed with Wrights teachings? His church record indicates a guy who will not make waves.

Your still hung up on Rev Wright, No wonder your not getting anywhere with your research.

shudder the thought. Unfortunately we probably need J. Earl to serve another term and give everyone a refresher.

You miss your beernuts? And your Billy Beer...lol
 

tieguy

Banned
Wkmac,

Some things require research and links to various sources. sometimes a little common sense needs to be applied.

Obama promises to be the guy that cleans up Wash Dc. I am all for cleaning up the DC BS games. I'm praying someone comes along with the leadership and conviction to do so.

The Reverend wright ordeal is more then some smut to be displayed on the front page of the enquirer.

In fact it shows someone who passively accepted wrights teachings. It then shows someone who quickly turned on his religious mentor when it was politically expedient to do so.

So to summarizes passively sits and accepts wrights lunatic ravings. Then stabs his religious mentor in the back when it gets too hot in the kitchen. Sounds like another DC insider to me.

The wright affair is a strong clue as to how Obama will operate. His track record in congress does not show an innovater but someone who follows the crowd.



thus I question his leadership and conviction for change.
 
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tieguy

Banned
In fairness to Obama I should recognize some of Obamas major accomplishments in congress. Is this what you wanted me to recognize wkmac?

Passed Senate
Jun 26, 2007
S.Con.Res. 25: A concurrent resolution condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society

Passed Senate
Jul 13, 2007
S.Res. 268: A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".Passed Senate
Mar 28, 2007
S.Res. 133: A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

Bills he sponsered that actually passed. Money well spent I'm sure. :happy-very:
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
In fairness to Obama I should recognize some of Obamas major accomplishments in congress. Is this what you wanted me to recognize wkmac?

Passed Senate
Jun 26, 2007
S.Con.Res. 25: A concurrent resolution condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society

Passed Senate
Jul 13, 2007
S.Res. 268: A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".Passed Senate
Mar 28, 2007
S.Res. 133: A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

Bills he sponsered that actually passed. Money well spent I'm sure. :happy-very:

Looks like "change we can (long pause) believe in" to me.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Wkmac,

Some things require research and links to various sources. sometimes a little common sense needs to be applied.

Obama promises to be the guy that cleans up Wash Dc. I am all for cleaning up the DC BS games. I'm praying someone comes along with the leadership and conviction to do so.

The Reverend wright ordeal is more then some smut to be displayed on the front page of the enquirer.

In fact it shows someone who passively accepted wrights teachings. It then shows someone who quickly turned on his religious mentor when it was politically expedient to do so.

So to summarizes passively sits and accepts wrights lunatic ravings. Then stabs his religious mentor in the back when it gets too hot in the kitchen. Sounds like another DC insider to me.

The wright affair is a strong clue as to how Obama will operate. His track record in congress does not show an innovater but someone who follows the crowd.



thus I question his leadership and conviction for change.

Tie,

I thnk Obama and Wright had a symbiotic relationship for poltical purposes. You can read my comments to D on that in another thread.

As for Hagee, let's just say I don't buy his brand of eschatology and the use of US gov't might to foster self fulfilling prophesy to speed the return of Jesus and Hagee's idea of the Kingdom of God!

Wright is no Boy Scout and IMO an opportunist but Hagee is the far more dangerous IMO on many levels. I wouldn't go so far as to say Hagee is McCain's preacher in the sense Wright "appeared" to be to Obama. Read my comments to D and you'll understand why I qualified the word appeared.

McCain should disconnet himself from Hagee but he won't, therefore this issue is a factor IMHO and thus some comments in the NY Times piece are valid!
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
As for Hagee, let's just say I don't buy his brand of eschatology and the use of US gov't might to foster self fulfilling prophesy to speed the return of Jesus and Hagee's idea of the Kingdom of God!

Wright is no Boy Scout and IMO an opportunist but Hagee is the far more dangerous IMO on many levels. I wouldn't go so far as to say Hagee is McCain's preacher in the sense Wright "appeared" to be to Obama. Read my comments to D and you'll understand why I qualified the word appeared.

McCain should disconnet himself from Hagee but he won't, therefore this issue is a factor IMHO and thus some comments in the NY Times piece are valid!
Please do tell just how Hagee is so much more dangerous... Ive sat here and listened to everyone trying to compare how bad Hagee is and how full of hate he is... There is no comparison to the things he has said as compared to Wright. Rev Wright stood on his pulpit and lashed out on things that have no backing based on scripture. Everything that Hagee has said was backed by biblical passage. On Katrina, he bases what happened on what the bible has shown, that God can punish for turning your back on him (whether he is right or wrong, he has biblical basis). With homosexuals, he bases on what the bible says when he calls homosexuality sin. This is not hate. I dont necessarily agree with his style of preaching (I call his type doom and gloomers), but it is not done with hate. Here is a quote from him that I do like though:::

"No one likes to hear that there is a God who has the power to correct man for his behavior that does not fall within the parameters of the word of God. That's why secular humanists hate the bible because it gives a definite standard of right and wrong..... You cant be all things to all people. You either live by the word of God or you dont live by the word of God. And there's nothing in between. And in our secular permissive society thats just a hateful idea."
 
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