Good point. But remember anytime one of our aircraft has a mechanical and a rescue a/c is sent, it could be any one of these balanced a/c. So if the 767 you see every night from SDF breaks and they send the rescue plane to recover the thousands of packages that hundred's of driver's have been out all day picking up, it could be anything from a 727-100, 727-200, DC8-71 series, DC8-73 series, 757 with Pratt and Whitney engines, 757 with Rolls Royce engines, A300, MD-11, 747 and we're supose to be proficient enought to go out and fix what could be wrong and get it back in the sky safely. Pilot's only have to know about the one type a/c they fly. and I know some of these a/c are not on property anymore but I hope you get our point.
Mediator ends talks
- Thread starter airbusfxr
- Start date
Good point. But remember anytime one of our aircraft has a mechanical and a rescue a/c is sent, it could be any one of these balanced a/c. So if the 767 you see every night from SDF breaks and they send the rescue plane to recover the thousands of packages that hundred's of driver's have been out all day picking up, it could be anything from a 727-100, 727-200, DC8-71 series, DC8-73 series, 757 with Pratt and Whitney engines, 757 with Rolls Royce engines, A300, MD-11, 747 and we're supose to be proficient enought to go out and fix what could be wrong and get it back in the sky safely. Pilot's only have to know about the one type a/c they fly. and I know some of these a/c are not on property anymore but I hope you get our point.
=====================THIS IS WHAT FEDX DOESN"T WANT.
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CNN) -- Turkish Airlines was accused a week before one of its aircraft was involved in a deadly crash near Amsterdam of "inviting disaster" by ignoring aircraft maintenance, it emerged Thursday.
Masked investigators work at the crash site Thursday.
more photos »
Nine people were killed Tuesday, and dozens more seriously injured when the Boeing 737-800 flying from Istanbul to Amsterdam crashed into a muddy field on its final approach to Schiphol Airport.
Turkish Civil Aviation Union announced on its Web site on February 18 that Turkish Airlines "is ignoring the most basic function of flight safety, which is plane maintenance services."
"The company administration does not understand the consequences of ripping people from their jobs and inviting a disaster."
The union, which represents 12,000 Turkish Airline employees, is involved in an ugly dispute with the company's management.
Turkish Airlines posted a statement on its Web site on Thursday saying it takes safety seriously and that it followed all "maintenance procedures of the plane manufacturer, national and international authorities directives" for the plane.
Two days before the crash, the company statement said, the pilot of the plane reported failure with the "Master Caution Light" while taxiing. The part was replaced, and "after this replacement, the plane had eight take-offs and landings and there were no problems," Turkish Airlines said.
In the wake of the disaster, Turkish Airlines executives and officials from Turkey's Transportation Ministry said the Boeing 737-800 had last been inspected December 22.
"There was no problem with maintenance in the records of the plane," Candan Karlicetin, executive board chairman of Turkish Airlines, said in a news conference just hours after the crash.
Further details of those on board the crash plane were emerging Thursday.
Don't Miss
Authorities know the nationalities of all but 15 of the passengers and crew, Weterings said.
Those on board the flight included 53 Dutch, 51 Turkish, seven Americans, three Britons, and one each from Germany, Bulgaria, Finland, and Taiwan. Of the fatalities, Weterings said three were Turkish.
"I want to express my deepest sympathies again to the victims of TK flight 1951," Weterings said.
Teams of investigators arrived at the crash site just after daybreak and set up a large white tent. They fanned out over the debris field, where the white fuselage of the Boeing lay in three pieces.
A special Turkish Airlines flight landed in Amsterdam Thursday morning from Istanbul, carrying about 70 relatives of those on board the fatal flight. The relatives were accompanied by trauma specialists, the airline said.
Flight 1951 was carrying 134 people, including 127 passengers and seven crew members, when it crashed less than 500 yards short of the runway Wednesday.
Among the dead were the two pilots and one pilot's apprentice, officials said.
The flight data and voice recorders were recovered.
Turkish officials have also ruled out weather conditions as a possible reason for the crash. Dutch and Turkish authorities say they await the results of an international investigation into the cause.
Aviation experts say Turkish Airlines has a relatively good safety record, though in 2003, more then 70 people were killed when a Turkish Airlines domestic flight crashed in fog near the southeastern city of Diyarbakir.
Turkey's flagship carrier had been expanding its routes and fleet of aircraft in recent years.
Hollywood actor Kevin Costner was recently hired to star in an advertising campaign for the company. Costner's commercials were to be broadcast in 70 countries.
An employee in Turkish Airlines' advertising department said the promotional campaign was suspended in the wake of the fatal plane crash.
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CNN) -- Turkish Airlines was accused a week before one of its aircraft was involved in a deadly crash near Amsterdam of "inviting disaster" by ignoring aircraft maintenance, it emerged Thursday.
more photos »
Nine people were killed Tuesday, and dozens more seriously injured when the Boeing 737-800 flying from Istanbul to Amsterdam crashed into a muddy field on its final approach to Schiphol Airport.
Turkish Civil Aviation Union announced on its Web site on February 18 that Turkish Airlines "is ignoring the most basic function of flight safety, which is plane maintenance services."
"The company administration does not understand the consequences of ripping people from their jobs and inviting a disaster."
The union, which represents 12,000 Turkish Airline employees, is involved in an ugly dispute with the company's management.
Turkish Airlines posted a statement on its Web site on Thursday saying it takes safety seriously and that it followed all "maintenance procedures of the plane manufacturer, national and international authorities directives" for the plane.
Two days before the crash, the company statement said, the pilot of the plane reported failure with the "Master Caution Light" while taxiing. The part was replaced, and "after this replacement, the plane had eight take-offs and landings and there were no problems," Turkish Airlines said.
In the wake of the disaster, Turkish Airlines executives and officials from Turkey's Transportation Ministry said the Boeing 737-800 had last been inspected December 22.
"There was no problem with maintenance in the records of the plane," Candan Karlicetin, executive board chairman of Turkish Airlines, said in a news conference just hours after the crash.
Further details of those on board the crash plane were emerging Thursday.
Don't Miss
- Nine killed in Amsterdam airport crash
- Twitter first to publish dramatic crash pictures
- Experts: Why many air crashes are survivable
- Web site: CNN Turk
Authorities know the nationalities of all but 15 of the passengers and crew, Weterings said.
Those on board the flight included 53 Dutch, 51 Turkish, seven Americans, three Britons, and one each from Germany, Bulgaria, Finland, and Taiwan. Of the fatalities, Weterings said three were Turkish.
"I want to express my deepest sympathies again to the victims of TK flight 1951," Weterings said.
Teams of investigators arrived at the crash site just after daybreak and set up a large white tent. They fanned out over the debris field, where the white fuselage of the Boeing lay in three pieces.
A special Turkish Airlines flight landed in Amsterdam Thursday morning from Istanbul, carrying about 70 relatives of those on board the fatal flight. The relatives were accompanied by trauma specialists, the airline said.
Flight 1951 was carrying 134 people, including 127 passengers and seven crew members, when it crashed less than 500 yards short of the runway Wednesday.
Among the dead were the two pilots and one pilot's apprentice, officials said.
The flight data and voice recorders were recovered.
Turkish officials have also ruled out weather conditions as a possible reason for the crash. Dutch and Turkish authorities say they await the results of an international investigation into the cause.
Aviation experts say Turkish Airlines has a relatively good safety record, though in 2003, more then 70 people were killed when a Turkish Airlines domestic flight crashed in fog near the southeastern city of Diyarbakir.
Turkey's flagship carrier had been expanding its routes and fleet of aircraft in recent years.
Hollywood actor Kevin Costner was recently hired to star in an advertising campaign for the company. Costner's commercials were to be broadcast in 70 countries.
An employee in Turkish Airlines' advertising department said the promotional campaign was suspended in the wake of the fatal plane crash.
ups767mech
Well-Known Member
If you replace "turkish Airlines" with "UPS Airlines" throughout the artical, it is a very frightening eye opener. I pray everyday that UPS never has anything like this happen but the sad reality is if they keep outsourcing our jobs to unlicensed mechanics overseas it can happen here. All the warning signs are there but noone is paying attention.
There saying that one of the engines fell off on approach. Can you emagine what kind of press coverage UPS would get from an accident like that. It would be, lets just say, not good for business.
Need4Speed
Member
Not trying to stir the pot here, but I have spent a lot of time performing acceptance flights for aircraft coming out of maintenance in Shannon, Singapore, and a many other heavy maintenance shops. I can appreciate the union wanting to protect jobs by insisting that the work not be outsourced. However, I believe it is disingenuous to say that because the work is "outsourced", or "performed overseas", it is inferior. In my experience, the work performed by most of these overseas operations is absolutely top-notch. I am perfectly comfortable accepting an aircraft from these facilities. In Singapore, each heavy maintenance accptance test flight is met by a group of folks that represent their specific teams (Air Sys Team, Hyd Sys Team, etc..). I have never seen a group of people who were more enthusiastic and motivated to do a good job, and who cared so much about the quality of their work. Quite frankly, I wish I experienced this level of competence and attitude in more of the places I typically fly. It's easy to put the words "outsourcing" and "Turkish Airlines scenario" in the same sentence, and insinuate that one will lead to the other. Based on my experience, I'm just not convinced.
ups767mech
Well-Known Member
You obviously arent the one pulling up floorboard and finding stringers glued together, Frayed flight control cables, wire splices done incorrectly, hydraulic lines crossed, anti skid systems wired backwards, I could go on but im sure you'll get the point.
======================
You probably think that these places do good work but your wrong. They don't have to follow the same rules the FAA has here in the states and they cut corners.
Even if they do good work, how can you say this is fair to AMT's in the U.S. when they don't play by the same rules, pay there people pennies, and basically work in a communist country.
I heard that Russia is flooding the market in europe with pilots that will fly cargo for 1/100th the pay you make. Do you think UPS should check into that?
ups767mech
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add this to my last post:
Sure when the planes come out they look pretty and fly semi straight. That doesnt mean that it had quality work done
Sure when the planes come out they look pretty and fly semi straight. That doesnt mean that it had quality work done
Need4Speed
Member
I didn't say it is fair to AMTs in the U.S. - I simply said that it is disingenuous to say that "overseas" work is inferior. If you want to use a different justification besides safety to use in negotiations, I'm fine with that. I think it is fine to try to protect American jobs - I just think you should use a legitimate argument in negotiations. Believe me, I know what a safe airplane is. I have to know - I'm the one at the end of the funnel (flying it). I accept airplanes out of maintenance all over the world, and I know that I am at least as safe flying one out of most "overseas" shops as I am flying one from anywhere else.
=======================
For one thing we don't want to do the overhaul work. That will never be done again by an American airline except American Airlines. UPS is working deferrals and phase checks over seas and that is our work. This, while they are laying off 60 of are guys. We only have a 1000 mechanics and tons of work. If you work in Louisville you could work as much over time as you want.
Just because you fly these planes out of overhaul and do system checks doesn't mean they do top notch maintenance. I have flown on aircraft straight out of overhaul that was done by United and outsourced vendors. What you don't know, and I do because I worked on both sides of the fence, is that the quality of maintenance is so inferior it would make your head spin.
These places could care less about your airplane and they will do anything to make a buck. Cut corners, have one guy with a license pencil whip paper work for ten guys, you name it.
We see the work that these places do after you have flown them back, and believe me it takes a lot of work to get all the damage these places do straight.
UPSNewbie
Well-Known Member
Not American Airlines, for the most part. Their work is done here at Tulsa International Airport.
When our aircraft come back from the "chop shops" pilot write ups increase. It usually takes several flights to "work out" the bugs. In the 90s when aircraft were at Dalfort and Dum Howard the first flight out resulted in pages of log items. Heck the company had to send Mgt pilots because line pilots wrote the dog out of them. Heavy MX will always be done by the "lowest bidder" and the FAA hides their head in the sand due to BIG BUSINESS lobbiest on Capital Hill. UPS has 1000k mechanics, just pay them a fair days pay for a fair days work, that is all we are asking. We have an envious safety record of the airline industry, the OLD SAYING is "it takes alot of money to run an airline"
Need4Speed
Member
Thank you for helping me make my point. I was one of the pilots making these pages of logbook write-ups. Virtually all of the heavy maintenance facilities I have worked with in the U.S. were far less competent than what I experience with the "overseas" shops.
Actually, I think I misunderstood what you guys are negotiating for. I thought you wanted the heavy maintenance work (overhaul), and were using safety as a justification. Based on the last post from Unionman, it sounds like you are not looking for that work. I am all for you guys keeping the Phase Check and deferral work. I stand corrected.
Thanks, but todays aircraft are worse coming back from Asia than Dalfort ever produced. Since you are a line pilot can you tell us the percentage of your raise in the last contract? What was the signing bonus over the retro pay? In ending, I would like to say that all UPS Employees have enjoyed raises and compensation enhancements since Nov '05 except the Airline Maintenance group, Grade 20's 200% bonus, MIP overflowing, and IPA's industry leading contract. We have had layoffs, routine work sent overseas, and no Mgt, air group workers, or pilots hit the street, we are not asking for the moon, just a fair days pay for a fair days work.
tellitstraight
Active Member
If you are among the highest paid mechanics in the industry aren't you already getting a fairs day pay?
Air Hub
Active Member
WELL.....True is, the UPS aircraft mechanics are the only employees working for UPS that are making about 10% less than they did in Nov 2005.
This is due to not getting a COLA each year!
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
airbusfxr,
Could you tell us, what exactly do you think a fair day's pay is? What should your pay be?, what should your benefits be?
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I remember 2 pensions as part of it.
tellitstraight
Active Member
The problem is if they made their demands public they would get no support from the majority of the public. Their idea of a fair contract is to keep everything they have plus whatever else they want - anything short of that and UPS is not "giving us a fair contract".
I could go on and on, they have a pretty good deal right now - even without a raise for 5 years. As far as outsourcing jobs to china - this work was never part of 2727. I am not sure you can technically outsource someone's job if it was never theirs to begin with.
