Message from the Supreme Court to the Repubilcans: DENIED!

[klein]

You missed the point Moreluck.
His point is, you, him and all others insured, are paying extra premiums already, because people without insurance are using the expensive "free" ER.

 

[moreluck]

You missed the point Moreluck.
His point is, you, him and all others insured, are paying extra premiums already, because people without insurance are using the expensive "free" ER.

No I didn't...."the point" was in my 2nd paragraph and I said to cover those that aren't and with coverage they won't do E.R. That part was left out by UNY

 

[trplnkl]

Well, as you know, trinkle, most all other countries have Government healthcare (besides Turkey).
Most of them have electronic systems in place, too.

Maybe, it's time for you to move out of the country, if you can't trust your government ?
You make the US sound like Libya or Egypt under Murbarak or Ghaddafi.
Big brother is watching you, and ready to arrest you. Esspecially if you abuse the healthcare system or commit healthcare fraud.

Somehow, you expect the government to improve healthcare, esspecially reducing costs on healthcare, but on the other hand, you don't want them to have any access to information that just might help them to succeed doing so.

I could value your point, if the US only had private healthcare and nothing else, and if you yourself wouldn't be getting tax breaks on your healthcare plan.
But, that's not the case.
The US government spends annually 30% of it's GDP on healthcare and growing rapidly.
By 2030, some estimate 50% of GDP will be spent on it.

You probably hope that's not the case, but the likelyhood is, it will happen.
Give the government some tools, to deal with such a problem. How else can they do their job ?

Kleenex, You just don't get it...for obvious reasons.
I do not want the US government spending anymore than they had previously committed to on health care and that being medicare/medicaid. IMO, heath care for the general public should not be the governments business.
Can you name ONE, just one, business the US government has ran that is successfully self-sustaining ? Now, having said that I do believe something needs to be changed in the health care industry, the cost to patients is outragous and 0bama care isn't going to rectify that, nor is that the purpose. The purpose is to provide heath care insurance to people that can't do better for themselves for reasons they can not control. However that spills over to those that are already unjustly soaking up public assistance resources, simply because they can.

 

[klein]

If you do some simple math, Obamacare will be cheaper then the current one.
Example:
Typical welfare family : Single mom with 2 kids
Now, if just each of the above go to the ER once per year only, at a cost of $575 per quick visit (no actions taken, just quick check-up and drug perscription).
That's $1725 per year, but in reality it's over $10K per year, since children get more often sick, and parents are more worried with little ones being ill.
Besides, it is bound that they will need more then just a check-up, maybe a surgery (broken bone), or a hospital stay, adding tens of thousands of dollars more for others to pay.

Now, wouldn't it be cheaper, if the government just forked out $1000 per year to insure them all, instead of paying 10fold and more ?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You left out the 2nd part of my post (conveniently) here it is..."If you are upset about those uncovered, then just take care of those.....why make the rest of us change when we are comfortable with our present coverage. It's much cheaper to just hook up those that have no medical."

So, I said to "take care of those"..........

I hit "reply with quote" so what you had written before editing was what was quoted.

 

[moreluck]

The CBO can't even tell what Obamacare will really cost, but you in your inimitable knowledge have it figured out exactly how cost efficient Obamacare will be.....
You should go have a beer summit with B.O. He'll make you a czar..

 

[moreluck]

I hit "reply with quote" so what you had written before editing was what was quoted.

Apology accepted!

 

[trplnkl]

If you do some simple math, Obamacare will be cheaper then the current one.
Example:
Typical welfare family : Single mom with 2 kids
Now, if just each of the above go to the ER once per year only, at a cost of $575 per quick visit (no actions taken, just quick check-up and drug perscription).
That's $1725 per year, but in reality it's over $10K per year, since children get more often sick, and parents are more worried with little ones being ill.
Besides, it is bound that they will need more then just a check-up, maybe a surgery (broken bone), or a hospital stay, adding tens of thousands of dollars more for others to pay.

Now, wouldn't it be cheaper, if the government just forked out $1000 per year to insure them all, instead of paying 10fold and more ?

To my knowledge before 0bama care, free heath care was not part of welfare.
When you do your simple math, apply reality. The "free" ER trips are not paid by the government. They are in actuality paid for by paying patients and their insurance in the form of $20 aspirins (example).
I raise two children, including all the childhood diseases, the rare actual emergency ER visit, the common colds and/or flus, I didn't spend $10k in any one year on the whole famn damily.

 

[upsgrunt]

If you do some simple math, Obamacare will be cheaper then the current one.
Example:
Typical welfare family : Single mom with 2 kids
Now, if just each of the above go to the ER once per year only, at a cost of $575 per quick visit (no actions taken, just quick check-up and drug perscription).
That's $1725 per year, but in reality it's over $10K per year, since children get more often sick, and parents are more worried with little ones being ill.
Besides, it is bound that they will need more then just a check-up, maybe a surgery (broken bone), or a hospital stay, adding tens of thousands of dollars more for others to pay.

Now, wouldn't it be cheaper, if the government just forked out $1000 per year to insure them all, instead of paying 10fold and more ?

The government doesn't pay for anything- the taxpayers do.

 

[The Other Side]

The issue in this country is very simple. There are over 49 million americans in this country without healthcare and an unknown number of illegal aliens who are also using our healthcare system without insurance. As these people are using services, the costs for this have been passed to the rest of us in the form of higher premiums.

In addition, our premiums increase every year (as they have for over 20 years) to cover the costs of personal bankruptcies where 65% of them are medically related. These BK's cost the hospitals and doctors hundreds of millions of dollars so they simply pass these losses on to us.

The cost of medical care and the rate of usage varies depending on demographic and geographic sectors. In some areas like morelucks, most people have insurance, but in areas like east los angeles, 70% rely on goverment health insurance and the rest have no insurance.

The fines related to not having insurance (for those who moreluck sez dont want insurance) would amount to 1% of gross income. So, if you make 35K and you dont have insurance, your fine to IRS would be 350.00 for the year. This isnt money you have to pay unless you owe the irs, its merely added to the federal tax liability that would apply to you. So, these people could use all the services of ER's and hospital visits and the cost is 350 bucks a year. This factor will REDUCE the cost to the rest of paying american public. You cant pay for a cheaper service.

Those that "dont" want insurance range in the 20 to 30 years old bracket and the reason they dont want insurance is because they CANT AFFORD IT not because they dont get sick.

At that age range, income is limited, and in todays business climate, those in that bracket are making LESS than they were 10 years ago.

The remainder of health care reform deals with pre existing conditions and the insurance companies practice of kicking people out of coverage when they became sick. Insurance companies hired doctors to review all documents of members who filed claims and looking for decrepancies so they could kick them off coverage in order to avoid paying large claims for things like cancer, heart attacks, transplants and the like.

49 million americans is a large number. Maybe some of you dont understand how that translates to you directly. Maybe you should.

Peace.

 

[klein]

True, but your insurance payment is partially paid for by the government in form of being non-taxable. Probably $500 that the government subsidizes you on your insurance plan.

I would guess over 60% of other Americans aren't soo lucky. They are either self employed or work with no healthcare bennies,( or don't work at all.).
They need to pay the Insurance rates in full (no discounted group rates, either), and after taxes income.
Now, those are the real people that should complain about the system and demand changes !
They are paying rates around $1500-$2000 per month average. (net pay, and out of pocket) !!!
Go give that a try, and still feed your family.

Ofcourse you didn't rack up 10K in bills - you have access to a family doctor !
Give it a try, and you and your family just go to the ER for every health reason, and prescription, instead, and then add up the bills.

 

[moreluck]

" unknown number of illegal aliens who are also using our healthcare system without insurance. ......"

if we kicked the illegals out and had that money, then we could use it to cover those people who don't have ins.

And the youth who don't have insurance, a lot of them think it's a wasted expense since they are invincible.

 

[moreluck]

True, but your insurance payment is partially paid for by the government in form of being non-taxable. Probably $500 that the government subsidizes you on your insurance plan.

I would guess over 60% of other Americans aren't soo lucky. They are either self employed or work with no healthcare bennies,( or don't work at all.).
They need to pay the Insurance rates in full (no discounted group rates, either), and after taxes income.
Now, those are the real people that should complain about the system and demand changes !
They are paying rates around $1500-$2000 per month average. (net pay, and out of pocket) !!!
Go give that a try, and still feed your family.

Ofcourse you didn't rack up 10K in bills - you have access to a family doctor !
Give it a try, and you and your family just go to the ER for every health reason, and prescription, instead, and then add up the bills.

The people who are under "group rates" still pay over $1500 a month (a couple) for health ins.

 

[The Other Side]

" unknown number of illegal aliens who are also using our healthcare system without insurance. ......"

if we kicked the illegals out and had that money, then we could use it to cover those people who don't have ins.

And the youth who don't have insurance, a lot of them think it's a wasted expense since they are invincible.

Ya, "kick them out"..... lets kick out the illegals, all of them to save money on healthcare, but wait, what would it cost to deport ALL illegals? Oh yeah, 10 times as much as it would to provide healthcare. Theres a right wing savings plan in action.

Congrats, you solved the problem.

Peace.

 

[trplnkl]

True, but your insurance payment is partially paid for by the government in form of being non-taxable. Probably $500 that the government subsidizes you on your insurance plan.

I would guess over 60% of other Americans aren't soo lucky. They are either self employed or work with no healthcare bennies,( or don't work at all.).
They need to pay the Insurance rates in full (no discounted group rates, either), and after taxes income.
Now, those are the real people that should complain about the system and demand changes !
They are paying rates around $1500-$2000 per month average. (net pay, and out of pocket) !!!
Go give that a try, and still feed your family.

Ofcourse you didn't rack up 10K in bills - you have access to a family doctor !
Give it a try, and you and your family just go to the ER for every health reason, and prescription, instead, and then add up the bills.

Please give sources for the numbers you are stating. I pay for my insurance after taxes, I do enjoy a group rate. My daughter, who is self employed has never paid 1200 per month for health insurance, she has 4 children from 18 to 2 years of age.
Of course I had a family doctor(paid for out of my pocket) why would I take my family to an ER for an Rx? There are clinics all over town with an office visit available for 35-50 bucks, with my insurance 25 co-pay (unless it has gone up since my last visit).
Before UPS, there were many years I worked two jobs as did my wife, one full time one part time(no insurance), we ate a lot of beans and were happy to have them. I doubt we could have gone to McDonald's or Wendy's three or four times a week and drove a three year old car with 5 grand of wheels and tires while affording to take the kids to a doctors office, but we managed to keep them fed and healthy without public assistance. Oh and we didn't buy a house we couldn't afford the payments on either.

 

[moreluck]

Ya, "kick them out"..... lets kick out the illegals, all of them to save money on healthcare, but wait, what would it cost to deport ALL illegals? Oh yeah, 10 times as much as it would to provide healthcare. Theres a right wing savings plan in action.

Congrats, you solved the problem.

Peace.

You can make fun all you like, but why should I pay for someone who is here illegally. Driving a bus from L.A. to Mexico does not cost more than health ins. for those 60 passengers. I pay to educate their kids, for them to get food stamps ,for their medical etc. etc. Our country and our citizens need the $$$ for our debt. We can't solve all the world's problems. Let's take care of home.

 

[trplnkl]

Ya, "kick them out"..... lets kick out the illegals, all of them to save money on healthcare, but wait, what would it cost to deport ALL illegals? Oh yeah, 10 times as much as it would to provide healthcare. Theres a right wing savings plan in action.

Congrats, you solved the problem.

Peace.

If health care was the only illegal immigrant drain on our resources you might have a point, but we all know that the true cost is exponentially larger than just the health care issue. Remember you are the one that brought up the illegals.

 

[klein]

The plan is tax-free because part of your pay covers the cost of the insurance.
Suppose you make $70,000 annually. If your employer gave you the full $70,000, all of it would be subject to payroll taxes, including income taxes. Now, if the employer establishes a premium-only plan, and says to you I can offer you health insurance for $1000 a month, your salary becomes $58,000 plus $12,000 in benefits.
Because health benefits are favored under the law, you avoid paying payroll taxes on that part of your salary reduction.​

You pay tax on the $58.000 and not the $70.000 earned, get it now ?

A person without employer healthcare bennies, pays more on income taxes, and then , again, more on insurance premiums.​

 

[The Other Side]

You can make fun all you like, but why should I pay for someone who is here illegally. Driving a bus from L.A. to Mexico does not cost more than health ins. for those 60 passengers. I pay to educate their kids, for them to get food stamps ,for their medical etc. etc. Our country and our citizens need the $$$ for our debt. We can't solve all the world's problems. Let's take care of home.

You know moreluck, this is the problem with people who "THINK" they understand the immigration problem. Because you watch fox news 24 hours a day, you have become "programmed" to believe all illegals are mexicans and all it would take to rid our country of all illegals would be to drive an overpacked bus a couple hundred miles to mexico and open the doors and let them out.

Sheesh... do some thinking maam.

Do you realize that there are vietnamese illegals? Korean Illegals? Chinese illegals? Russian illegals? Italian illegals? Canadian illegals? German Illegals? Japanese illegals? etc etc etc or are you cool with those illegals and only have a problem with mexicans?

Illegal immigration numbers break down like this:

41% all races are from overstayed tourists visas- that means they get off a plane and walk in.
29% all races are from overstayed student visas- that means they get off a plane and walk in.
19% all races are from overstayed work permits- that means they drive in, then stay
11% all races are from crossing the border illegally- that means they use the northern or southern borders or the florida coast for entry illegally

So, your answer of "drive them on a bus to mexico" is rediculous at best.

The cost to "fly" illegals back to home countries other than mexico would stagger your mind, if you gave it some thought.

Open your mind to the reality of illegal immigration, get away from the fox programming.

There are millions of other races here that are illegal other than mexicans.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

So, never start anywhere...??? If we never start with some of it, the problem only gets worse. Inaction is not an option. Close the borders to start with. So, pick a point and start sending them back. Start with the prisons first. Doing nothing is an Obama plan.

What I watch on TV is mostly tapes from the night before because i can't stay up to see my programs.....none of which are on FOX. I watch KTLA ch 5 news and have since it's inception about 1991 with Carlos Amezqua & Barbara Beck....both of which are no longer there....Eric Spillman, Gayle Anderson, etc.

You know so much about FOX it must be your viewing preference.