Mgmt/Employee Rift

[code5]

Reading the Brown Cafe I see such a rift between Management and Employees. It seems the Union Stewarts rule the roost in the UPS world.

My question, has it always been like that? How did it evolve into that? Who is to blame, agressive management or lazy employees? Kind of what came first, the chicken or the egg kind of thing.

The reason I ask is that I have been with UPS for 16 years. Last year, we got a pre-load put in and everything changed. With the driver sort and load the drivers has a lot of input involving our own dispatch. We were able to push and pull based on our own judgement and as long as you had an 8 hr plan all was good. Yes, it wasn't always perfect but it is better than it is now.

With the pre-load we have no rights, we come to work and have to deliver just whats in our cars even when it makes no scence. The management approach is discipline first and foremost. Our union activity has skyrocketed and managment seems to embrase the rift between them and employees. I'd say we just have a bad group of management presently, but they seem to have simply leveled off to how UPS is being run elsewhere.

I guess much has to do with the growth of our center. It is much harder to manage people on a larger capacity and it becomes more of a cookie cutter approach with red tape clouding the common sence and good judgement.

Now, I'm not blaming either side for the union approach, or the union for that matter. I just liked it the way it used to be. We knew we had the security of the union, but they were pretty much out of site and mind and really worked as a team with management. Our teamster union rep said we had something special and wishes he could bottle it!

This rift seems to be a UPS culture now and everyone seems to accept it. I think it really holds the companys potential back.

 

[JonFrum]

There's also a Management/Management Rift. They don't just hate us, they also "eat their own."

Management seems to be systematically taking every principle of sound management and seeing how far they can bend and how often they can violate it.

As usual, the Union acts like an absentee landlord.

 

[code5]

There's also a Management/Management Rift. They don't just hate us, they also "eat their own."

Management seems to be systematically taking every principle of sound management and seeing how far they can bend and how often they can violate it.

As usual, the Union acts like an absentee landlord.

That is also true. SH** really does run downhill in UPS. There needs to be someone that can transform it into usefull fertalizer once in a while. Unfortunately, most of the time it turns into diareah by the time it reaches the drivers.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[over9five]

ieSpell

 

[Omega man]

Management only reaps what they sow. Union people only react to the way they are treated. This latest group of Keystone Cops running the company is driving it staight into the ground. Sadly, any additional effort or cooperation by hourlys in the past to help this company function has been the price paid.

 

[code5]

Yea, yea I get it. I spelled a couple words wrong. Oh well. Should I file a greivance. Ha ha

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Yea, yea I get it. I spelled a couple words wrong. Oh well. Should I file a greivance. Ha ha

More than just a couple...

Reading the Brown Cafe I see such a rift between Management and Employees. It seems the Union Stewarts rule the roost in the UPS world.

My question, has it always been like that? How did it evolve into that? Who is to blame, agressive management or lazy employees? Kind of what came first, the chicken or the egg kind of thing.

The reason I ask is that I have been with UPS for 16 years. Last year, we got a pre-load put in and everything changed. With the driver sort and load the drivers has a lot of input involving our own dispatch. We were able to push and pull based on our own judgement and as long as you had an 8 hr plan all was good. Yes, it wasn't always perfect but it is better than it is now.

With the pre-load we have no rights, we come to work and have to deliver just whats in our cars even when it makes no scence. The management approach is discipline first and foremost. Our union activity has skyrocketed and managment seems to embrase the rift between them and employees. I'd say we just have a bad group of management presently, but they seem to have simply leveled off to how UPS is being run elsewhere.

I guess much has to do with the growth of our center. It is much harder to manage people on a larger capacity and it becomes more of a cookie cutter approach with red tape clouding the common sence and good judgement.

Now, I'm not blaming either side for the union approach, or the union for that matter. I just liked it the way it used to be. We knew we had the security of the union, but they were pretty much out of site and mind and really worked as a team with management. Our teamster union rep said we had something special and wishes he could bottle it!

This rift seems to be a UPS culture now and everyone seems to accept it. I think it really holds the companys potential back.

 

[hellfire]

www.merriam-webster.com

really? policing grammar now ??

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

really? policing grammar now ??

That is an online dictionary.

 

[hellfire]

Yea, yea I get it. I spelled a couple words wrong. Oh well. Should I file a greivance. Ha ha

thats right,, everyone here is a language and spelling doctorate ,,, we dont answer or help we only correct grammar,, thats why we deliver packages for a living......................back to your question,,,,its worse than its ever been now,,i know and trust my sups and center manager,, its corporate that is driving operations into the ground

 

[Re-Raise]

I wouldn't really call it a rift between between management and union employees on this site.. I think there are just a lot of people on here who point out things that management does that they don't believe makes sense and sometimes management tries to defend why things are done.

I just do my job to the best of my ability to keep the customers who use UPS happy while trying to work at a pace that justifies my $30 an hour pay scale.

Mangement at our center seems to have attention deficit disorder.

One day they will tell us about some center that failed a Keter audit and how important the DOK questions are, the next day it is over allowed, the next day it is pickup compliance, the next will be recording all personal time or else, then it will be stops per on road hour, and finally sales leads.

I just look at them till they are done talking and then I go and earn my paycheck. I hold no animosity toward them , it is more like pity.

 

[tarbar66]

Reading the Brown Cafe I see such a rift between Management and Employees. It seems the Union Stewarts rule the roost in the UPS world.

My question, has it always been like that? How did it evolve into that? Who is to blame, agressive management or lazy employees? Kind of what came first, the chicken or the egg kind of thing.

The reason I ask is that I have been with UPS for 16 years. Last year, we got a pre-load put in and everything changed. With the driver sort and load the drivers has a lot of input involving our own dispatch. We were able to push and pull based on our own judgement and as long as you had an 8 hr plan all was good. Yes, it wasn't always perfect but it is better than it is now.

Your center just got a preload??
I thought the company had all centers converted to a part time preload versus a driver sort & load by the year 2000.
My center went from driver sort & load to a part time preload back in 1983. It was a pain in the butt at first but everything was pretty much running smooth in less than a year.
I know my knees were not as sore during peak. The extra 2 hours in the morning were great for being with the family for breakfast, taking kids to school etc.

I hope the cluster improves for your centers drivers. Just keep plugging along, you know the management team will change every few years.

With the pre-load we have no rights, we come to work and have to deliver just whats in our cars even when it makes no scence. The management approach is discipline first and foremost. Our union activity has skyrocketed and managment seems to embrase the rift between them and employees. I'd say we just have a bad group of management presently, but they seem to have simply leveled off to how UPS is being run elsewhere.

I guess much has to do with the growth of our center. It is much harder to manage people on a larger capacity and it becomes more of a cookie cutter approach with red tape clouding the common sence and good judgement.

Now, I'm not blaming either side for the union approach, or the union for that matter. I just liked it the way it used to be. We knew we had the security of the union, but they were pretty much out of site and mind and really worked as a team with management. Our teamster union rep said we had something special and wishes he could bottle it!

This rift seems to be a UPS culture now and everyone seems to accept it. I think it really holds the companys potential back.

 

[soberups]

The rift would go away if the company would simply allow the "managers" of its operations to make decisions.

95% of UPS management are good, honest, competent people and 95% of the time they would make good, honest, competent decisions ....if only they were allowed to.

But they arent allowed to. They cant run the business the way it should be run, because in reality they are nothing but facilitators whose only responsbility is to spoon-feed the puppet masters in Atlanta whichever number (stops per car? SPORH? overallowed hours?) happens to be the current corporate flavor of the week.

You cant manage a business if you have no authority to make business decisions. You cant manage a business if your survival depends solely upon managing a metric.

Our operations-level "managers" have been reduced to puppets who hand out warning letters and read PCM's.

Since the only remaining tool these "managers" have available to them is a hammer....all of their problems start looking like nails. And since those "nails" are, in reality, the human beings that provide the labor that allows UPS to succeed...it is only natural that those same human beings will turn to the only protection that they have (the union) in order to survive.

True cooperation requires both sides to give and take. It requires compromise. Neither is possible on a local level when all of the important decisions are being made in Atlanta.

Its impossible to engage in meaningful teamwork with a puppet. Its even harder when that puppet can do nothing but swing a hammer.

 

[sosocal]

The rift would go away if the company would simply allow the "managers" of its operations to make decisions.

95% of UPS management are good, honest, competent people and 95% of the time they would make good, honest, competent decisions ....if only they were allowed to.

But they arent allowed to. They cant run the business the way it should be run, because in reality they are nothing but facilitators whose only responsbility is to spoon-feed the puppet masters in Atlanta whichever number (stops per car? SPORH? overallowed hours?) happens to be the current corporate flavor of the week.

You cant manage a business if you have no authority to make business decisions. You cant manage a business if your survival depends solely upon managing a metric.

Our operations-level "managers" have been reduced to puppets who hand out warning letters and read PCM's.

Since the only remaining tool these "managers" have available to them is a hammer....all of their problems start looking like nails. And since those "nails" are, in reality, the human beings that provide the labor that allows UPS to succeed...it is only natural that those same human beings will turn to the only protection that they have (the union) in order to survive.

True cooperation requires both sides to give and take. It requires compromise. Neither is possible on a local level when all of the important decisions are being made in Atlanta.

Its impossible to engage in meaningful teamwork with a puppet. Its even harder when that puppet can do nothing but swing a hammer.

there is so much truth in these words... I have been a center manager for a long time. Early in my career I held the authority to manage all the the balls.... safety, performance, service, staffing, morale, leads,...the whole nine yards...I was very successful becasue my people knew that i cared, wanted their opinions, wanted their best efforts and thanked them for it. Now is a different story. I cannot control the decisions in my center...I put out a dispacth that i know has inefficiencies, produces inferior service and undermines morale. Becasue I have no control over it I have turned off my humanity, creativity, motivational speaker, and analysis buttons. It is what it is...At the end of the day I still get paid...The company gets the dispacth they want (although not the performance levels they used to get) and my employees get paid a good wage with plenty of OT. But the teamwork, pride and potential are slipping day by day--

 

[grgrcr88]

there is so much truth in these words... I have been a center manager for a long time. Early in my career I held the authority to manage all the the balls.... safety, performance, service, staffing, morale, leads,...the whole nine yards...I was very successful becasue my people knew that i cared, wanted their opinions, wanted their best efforts and thanked them for it. Now is a different story. I cannot control the decisions in my center...I put out a dispacth that i know has inefficiencies, produces inferior service and undermines morale. Becasue I have no control over it I have turned off my humanity, creativity, motivational speaker, and analysis buttons. It is what it is...At the end of the day I still get paid...The company gets the dispacth they want (although not the performance levels they used to get) and my employees get paid a good wage with plenty of OT. But the teamwork, pride and potential are slipping day by day--

That is so true! Too bad we all can't get together and get that message up the chain to Atlanta!

 

[Coldworld]

The rift would go away if the company would simply allow the "managers" of its operations to make decisions.

95% of UPS management are good, honest, competent people and 95% of the time they would make good, honest, competent decisions ....if only they were allowed to.

But they arent allowed to. They cant run the business the way it should be run, because in reality they are nothing but facilitators whose only responsbility is to spoon-feed the puppet masters in Atlanta whichever number (stops per car? SPORH? overallowed hours?) happens to be the current corporate flavor of the week.

You cant manage a business if you have no authority to make business decisions. You cant manage a business if your survival depends solely upon managing a metric.

Our operations-level "managers" have been reduced to puppets who hand out warning letters and read PCM's.

Since the only remaining tool these "managers" have available to them is a hammer....all of their problems start looking like nails. And since those "nails" are, in reality, the human beings that provide the labor that allows UPS to succeed...it is only natural that those same human beings will turn to the only protection that they have (the union) in order to survive.

True cooperation requires both sides to give and take. It requires compromise. Neither is possible on a local level when all of the important decisions are being made in Atlanta.

Its impossible to engage in meaningful teamwork with a puppet. Its even harder when that puppet can do nothing but swing a hammer.

This is probably one of the best posts on bc in the last year or so.......so true yet so sad...

 

[Coldworld]

there is so much truth in these words... I have been a center manager for a long time. Early in my career I held the authority to manage all the the balls.... safety, performance, service, staffing, morale, leads,...the whole nine yards...I was very successful becasue my people knew that i cared, wanted their opinions, wanted their best efforts and thanked them for it. Now is a different story. I cannot control the decisions in my center...I put out a dispacth that i know has inefficiencies, produces inferior service and undermines morale. Becasue I have no control over it I have turned off my humanity, creativity, motivational speaker, and analysis buttons. It is what it is...At the end of the day I still get paid...The company gets the dispacth they want (although not the performance levels they used to get) and my employees get paid a good wage with plenty of OT. But the teamwork, pride and potential are slipping day by day--

thanks for being honest....there is NO incentive as of right now for anyone to go into mgt...nothing...zip.

 

[Coldworld]

That is so true! Too bad we all can't get together and get that message up the chain to Atlanta!

Well run companies value all employees concerns and ways to grow the company.....most companies would love to have the dedication and work ethic that most ups folks have, but while your working here thats not going to be the case...ever.

 

[over9five]

That is so true! Too bad we all can't get together and get that message up the chain to Atlanta!

I'm sure they already know. I think they have chosen short term profit over anything else.

We can only hope those people making the big bucks have made the right choice.