MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Yes. That's the beauty of "at-will" employment for Uncle Fred.
More olcc nonsense !
- Thread starter franknitty
- Start date
Yes. That's the beauty of "at-will" employment for Uncle Fred.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
It doesn't work quite like that...
There are different laws in different states, that specify how an at-will employer can terminate an employee. I think just over a year ago, I did a summary of the different laws in the different states regarding to what extent an employer must show cause for termination - in this forum. Use the search feature, try the terms "at will employment", "state law", "requirements" and "show cause" - that should narrow it down to the thread which had the discussion.
OLCCs in and of themselves, do nothing to you. What they do accomplish for the employer (Express), is to establish a paper trail of "work failures", "misconduct" and other issues to which an employee failed to meet standard. Should Express decide to fire you for something (items for which an employee receives performance reminders or warning letters), the OLCCs in an employee's file provides legal cover for Express to defend itself against potential litigation for wrongful termination. In the very unlikely event that Express fires an employee for something (say 3 performance reminders in a short period of time) AND there were no other forms of documentation of disciplinary nature - the employee would have a good shot (depending on what state they are in) in winning a wrongful termination lawsuit.
Many employees don't understand the "legal consequences" of signing a document - for which blames them for something, AND they offer no rebuttal.
When I was "offered" OLCCs, I'd sign them, but with that signature, I'd put in MY WRITING somthing to the effect, "I acknowledge reading the contents of this document. However, I admit NO BLAME for anything contained within this document. My signature DOESN'T construe admission on my part of any wrongdoing whatsoever." Signed Ricochet1a
Then get and keep a copy of the document with your handwritten note on it.
If for some reason you do end up going into litigation against Express - your copy of the document would protect you from Express management attempting to alter the original document which you placed your statement on - to appear that you merely signed it and made no statement whatsoever (I did catch management trying this).
Your manager will argue till they are blue in the face that you can't put anything on the document other than your signature. THIS IS COMPLETE BS. When you sign a document, you are making a legal statement that you are either in agreement with the contents, or that you will abide by the contents contained therein. If they try to intimidate you into signing a document without your being able to add a statement of non-admission of guilt, then merely sign your name, then next to it write "Under Duress". The signature would have no legally binding effect on you.
I have never heard of an employee being fired for OLCCs alone. HOWEVER... OLCCs are the stepping stone for either Performance Reminders or Warning Letters. You can be handed a Performance Reminder for just about anything - these you do need to worry about.
I don't believe that Performance Reminders are subject to GFT procedures, so Performance Reminders are a "backdoor" method of building documentation against you for which you have no internal review protection - and may have your employment terminated if you gather too many in a period of time.
Don't spend too much time worrying about OLCCs - worry about Performance Reminders. As I posted earlier, Express is on a Performance Reminder "kick" right now - they want to thin the herd of troublesome employees - and not have to pay them unemployment or face wrongful termination litigation as a result.
DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS
Well-Known Member
I believe they call this "Manager's Discretion" in the Policy...err...Guidelines.
DontThrowPackages
Well-Known Member
Can't you get an OLCC for not signing??
DontThrowPackages
Well-Known Member
Document this. Imagine the JFT meeting when you show that you where waiting for a customer to finish up his last package and still managed to run over 100 for the month. Its vudu management.
If I have a good customer. One that always has everything ready for me every day for 3 weeks straight, how would we look if I told him to his face,"Sorry,gotta go",when he asks if I could wait a few minutes. I said it before, there gonna make it to where we will stop hearing," I can't stand that other company, you guys are much better". I hope they know that.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
First, if you are going to respond to a post DON'T do it WITHIN the post - it muddles the issue and makes reading it a pain...
The OLCCs that are being handed out now, involve the manager writing up a description of the event (WORD PROCESSING IT), and having the employee placing an actual signature on that document. They also go online to enter that an OLCC was issued, and to reference the physical document.
Anything done solely "online" has NO LEGAL APPLICABILITY if Express is hauled into court on a wrongful termination lawsuit. There is no way to verify the authenticity (attempting to prove that an employee "signed it") of anything. In addition, there isn't a reliable way for employees to make a counter statement on a purely "online" statement - without assurance that their statement would somehow be deleted.
I received MANY OLCCs when Express was trying to run me out for organizing actitives (on unrelated trivial issues and sometimes outright lies) that were word processed and had me sign a piece of paper. After talking to outside council, I was instructed to write the statement I suggested in my earlier post.
I left Express before they were able to generate enough documentation to involuntarily terminate my employment. Once I openly started organizing activities back in late 2009, the proverbial bulls-eye was placed on me and management threw anything they could at me - to build a "case file" that they would be confident would stand a suit for wrongful termination. They even resorted to fabricating events, in order to accelerate the pace of building documentation against me.
Please, put down the KoolAid, take off the purple tinted glasses and do a reality check of the Express that exists for the vast majority of Couriers out there.
The OLCCs that are being handed out now, involve the manager writing up a description of the event (WORD PROCESSING IT), and having the employee placing an actual signature on that document. They also go online to enter that an OLCC was issued, and to reference the physical document.
Anything done solely "online" has NO LEGAL APPLICABILITY if Express is hauled into court on a wrongful termination lawsuit. There is no way to verify the authenticity (attempting to prove that an employee "signed it") of anything. In addition, there isn't a reliable way for employees to make a counter statement on a purely "online" statement - without assurance that their statement would somehow be deleted.
I received MANY OLCCs when Express was trying to run me out for organizing actitives (on unrelated trivial issues and sometimes outright lies) that were word processed and had me sign a piece of paper. After talking to outside council, I was instructed to write the statement I suggested in my earlier post.
I left Express before they were able to generate enough documentation to involuntarily terminate my employment. Once I openly started organizing activities back in late 2009, the proverbial bulls-eye was placed on me and management threw anything they could at me - to build a "case file" that they would be confident would stand a suit for wrongful termination. They even resorted to fabricating events, in order to accelerate the pace of building documentation against me.
Please, put down the KoolAid, take off the purple tinted glasses and do a reality check of the Express that exists for the vast majority of Couriers out there.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the information. Like I have stated before, I know how to protect myself, always have and always will. Documentation is a must. Was not sure about OLCC since they are done online. Now I do...OLCC were not used much at our station but they are now for anything. Thanks again.
Rhoderunner
Well-Known Member
3 OLCC for the same problem may = a letter but other factors usually come into play. They better be doing more to help you than just write you up.
Rhoderunner
Well-Known Member
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
Really. And thank you. Trying to read that stuff within a post is well...I stopped reading them Goldi.
Out of the Dark
Active Member
Ricochet1a is absolutely positively right! get copies of everything. I get a copy of an OLCC, add my own comments about the situation in front of my manager, and make him sign my version of the OLCC! he doesn't like that.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
This is a perfect example of fighting back against the system. When they feed you a crap sandwich, hand it right back, but add a bit of your own poo so they don't like it. Make them look bad or stupid...prefeably both.
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