More UpClose RLA Video Lies from FedEx

vantexan

Well-Known Member
At some point, legally obligated or not, FedEx could just stop flying, close its doors, and say goodbye if there was no Express revenue. Where would that leave all the $30/hour employees?

Oh come on...you think the guys holding all the stock are just going to walk away from it?

Talked to a Ground contractor today. He believes that the company will go to an all contractor workforce if we unionize. He may be right. If so it'll take time to get the logistics right, hire enough people. What I'm hoping will happen is that if FedEx chooses to do that they will have a transition period of a few years, paying us better while they work towards a date where they can put everything into action. Hopefully they'll consider a part-time Express force for P1 dels and pups but if they go completely to a contractor model I'm hoping they don't do something rash like layoff people to get even for voting for a union. I do wonder with the ROADS system if there is an intent to bring in a new workforce quickly to replace us if we vote for a union. Hopefully they will keep in mind that many, many thousands of employees have struggled under their pay system to make it possible to get that high stock price. Instead of dropping a bomb on us, give us a decent exit strategy. I really believe something big is coming down the pike, but hopefully not until we have a chance to get things in order and find something else.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Correct. See your above argument as to why this is important.


Have to start calling you Alanis. FedEx is already flying the mail so how is flying it without Express packages and more USPS shipments irony? USPS, while a competitor, is still just a customer. At some point, legally obligated or not, FedEx could just stop flying, close its doors, and say goodbye if there was no Express revenue. Where would that leave all the $30/hour employees?

The funny thing is that you mock and deride anyone that actually believes in FedEx. Those people know what they have and what they don't have. What you espouse, however, is the unknown and expect people to take it hook, line, and sinker. You have absolutely no idea exactly what will happen if the labor status changes and contract negotiations begin. You may be able to make some very educated guesses, but that's all they are, guesses. If people don't want to take that chance that's their decision. If people do, that's their right too. There's nothing to say that Fred won't make more money with a union but you've made up your mind and expect others to take your word for it that FedEx is an evil empire that can do no right.

For every argument here that sets out to prove how bad FedEx is, there's an example of how it's just the opposite at FedEx. Not sure why that matters anyway as everything here is anecdotal at best.

Anecdotal? If FedEx is shut-down, the USPS won't experience a massive rise in packages that we would have to fly? Right. We'd be obligated to fly their stuff even of it wasn't profitable to do so. It would be very ironic to watch the USPS meet the planes and then haul off all those additional pkgs to the Post Office for delivery. That's pretty much a given, isn't it?

Anything regarding the RLA is theoretical since no decision has been made. That's a given too. What isn't a given is whether or not FedEx employees are really aware of the company they work for. Most don't seem to be fully aware of the lengths Smith will go to in order to keep his special deal, or what he's been doing for years...preaching PSP while simultaneously building a political/financial powerhouse with the specific mission of preserving low-cost labor. Sorry, but these two ideas are mutually exclusive. In other words, Fred S is dishonest, and that's one of his better qualities. It is an evil empire, run by an evil man.

For every post I make, there's a "believer" like you who's going to do his best to set me straight about how wonderful FedEx is. I liken you to a Scientologist or other cultist, so full of your insane religion that you've come to believe the lies they're constantly filling you with to gain control. FedEx is WalMart on wheels my friend. Why can't you see the truth?
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
Anecdotal? If FedEx is shut-down, the USPS won't experience a massive rise in packages that we would have to fly? Right. We'd be obligated to fly their stuff even of it wasn't profitable to do so. It would be very ironic to watch the USPS meet the planes and then haul off all those additional pkgs to the Post Office for delivery. That's pretty much a given, isn't it?
While it is very unlikely to happen, should FedEx find itself in bankruptcy due to a lack of revenue, you thing that obligation is going to mean anything? And the anecdotal stuff I was referring to was all the stories about how "I know someone who did nothing wrong but was fired" type stuff.

For every post I make, there's a "believer" like you who's going to do his best to set me straight about how wonderful FedEx is. I liken you to a Scientologist or other cultist, so full of your insane religion that you've come to believe the lies they're constantly filling you with to gain control. FedEx is WalMart on wheels my friend. Why can't you see the truth?
I'm not really trying to set you straight about FedEx. Just pointing out to those that are reading that there are three sides to every story. And I see the truth every time I wake up and see the life that my FedEx paycheck has built for me. No, I don't have rich parents or a two income family and I've never won the lottery. Perception is reality my friend.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
And that type of thinking has stopped exactly how many chapter 11's, or worse, 7's?

But you are implying that they'll risk damaging the brand, kill the golden goose just to stick it to us. Bankruptcy only happens when it's the only option left for FedEx.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
But you are implying that they'll risk damaging the brand, kill the golden goose just to stick it to us. Bankruptcy only happens when it's the only option left for FedEx.
I'm not implying anything. I was responding to another post that local unions could shut down a city or area and as MrFedEx pointed out, that would leave FedEx in serious trouble. If that trouble was severe enough, bankruptcy isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I realize this is extreme and not likely to happen but my point was saying "FedEx is legally obligated to do...." really doesn't mean much if the company isn't operating.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'm not implying anything. I was responding to another post that local unions could shut down a city or area and as MrFedEx pointed out, that would leave FedEx in serious trouble. If that trouble was severe enough, bankruptcy isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I realize this is extreme and not likely to happen but my point was saying "FedEx is legally obligated to do...." really doesn't mean much if the company isn't operating.

Do you really think Smith will kill the goose that continues to lay the Golden Egg? Even unionized, FedEx would be highly profitable. Smith may be a miserly tyrant, but he isn't stupid.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
No, not Smith. A union via a strike.

UPS is union. They occasionally go on strike. They are hightly profitable in spite of being totally unionized. What part of the equation don't you get? In the real world 2+2=4, but in yours it's apparently eleventy-seven. Please continue to worship Smith. I'm afraid you'll find him a very disappointing deity. Yes Quadro, the world is flat, there were no dinosaurs, and the moon is made of cheese.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
UPS is union. They occasionally go on strike. They are hightly profitable in spite of being totally unionized. What part of the equation don't you get? In the real world 2+2=4, but in yours it's apparently eleventy-seven. Please continue to worship Smith. I'm afraid you'll find him a very disappointing deity. Yes Quadro, the world is flat, there were no dinosaurs, and the moon is made of cheese.
Occasionally? No. At least not at the national level. The fact that they are highly profitable is one reason they survived the strike in 1997. FedEx just doesn't have the deep pockets that UPS has and there's a very real possibility it wouldn't survive.

Also, does the insulting work well for you when someone disagrees with you? Just wondering.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Occasionally? No. At least not at the national level. The fact that they are highly profitable is one reason they survived the strike in 1997. FedEx just doesn't have the deep pockets that UPS has and there's a very real possibility it wouldn't survive.

Also, does the insulting work well for you when someone disagrees with you? Just wondering.

It's very hard to accept your reasoning, which I find to be flawed and nearly always pro-FedEx, even when your best interests are apparently not being served. One of the big reasons UPS went on strike in 1997 was the abuse of part-timers, which is rampant at FedEx. That issue was at least partially resolved, and a satisfactory contract was negotiated. UPS chose the length of the strike, not the employees.

While it's true UPS has more cash reserves, there's an easy way for Fred S to avoid a strike in the first place...negotiate a contract. Heck, he can even avoid the union altogether if he wants to, but he's too damned cheap. Lower top-outs, improve the retirement plan, and institute a legitimate grievance process and presto...no Teamsters. Here's what you don't get, and the writing is plainly on the wall. Fred wants us to be like WalMart employees..underpaid and ignorant. He won't do the "right" thing because he thinks he can still get away with keeping things just the way they are now. He already thinks we've got it too good.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
It's very hard to accept your reasoning, which I find to be flawed and nearly always pro-FedEx, even when your best interests are apparently not being served. One of the big reasons UPS went on strike in 1997 was the abuse of part-timers, which is rampant at FedEx. That issue was at least partially resolved, and a satisfactory contract was negotiated. UPS chose the length of the strike, not the employees.
Why do you feel that part timers are abused at FedEx? At least at FedEx, part time employees are on the same pay scale as full time employees doing the same job. Part time employees were abused at UPS because at times they were doing two different jobs (e.g. loading trucks and then delivering overnight shipments). Because their pay scale was different to full time employees, they essentially got paid less for doing the exact same work as a full time employee. Also, if you have a segment of your business that is growing and that segment only lasts 3 - 4 hours a day, why would you hire full time employees?

All that aside, the UPS strike was more about the pension money and UPS wanting to get out of the Central States Fund.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Why do you feel that part timers are abused at FedEx? At least at FedEx, part time employees are on the same pay scale as full time employees doing the same job. Part time employees were abused at UPS because at times they were doing two different jobs (e.g. loading trucks and then delivering overnight shipments). Because their pay scale was different to full time employees, they essentially got paid less for doing the exact same work as a full time employee. Also, if you have a segment of your business that is growing and that segment only lasts 3 - 4 hours a day, why would you hire full time employees?

All that aside, the UPS strike was more about the pension money and UPS wanting to get out of the Central States Fund.

Again, another page out of the FedEx playbook. If you're going to defend the company, at least try to pretend you're a courier. Does FedEx assign managers to this site now? Part-timers are abused at FedEx in many ways, all of which you fail to point out. For one, most are intensely pressured to work FT hours when needed, even though they might have childcare issues, another job, school, etc. I've seen managers browbeat PT'ers to the point of tears ordering them to cover a route, threaten their jobs, and call them disloyal when they can't fill-in.

Another way they're abused is if they are seeking full-time. It's feast or famine at FedEx and when they need you (e.g peak, sick calls) you're indisposable, but when they're fat on people they'll send you home with your 2 hr minimums if they can. And when full-timers quit or business grows, how are these individuals usually replaced? That's right, with more part-timers. There's so much more...
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
Again, another page out of the FedEx playbook. If you're going to defend the company, at least try to pretend you're a courier. Does FedEx assign managers to this site now? Part-timers are abused at FedEx in many ways, all of which you fail to point out. For one, most are intensely pressured to work FT hours when needed, even though they might have childcare issues, another job, school, etc. I've seen managers browbeat PT'ers to the point of tears ordering them to cover a route, threaten their jobs, and call them disloyal when they can't fill-in.

Another way they're abused is if they are seeking full-time. It's feast or famine at FedEx and when they need you (e.g peak, sick calls) you're indisposable, but when they're fat on people they'll send you home with your 2 hr minimums if they can. And when full-timers quit or business grows, how are these individuals usually replaced? That's right, with more part-timers. There's so much more...
I'm not defending FedEx, per se, just pointing out some facts. If those facts make FedEx look better, well I can't help that.

Have managers pressured part time employees? I don't doubt it. Given how many part time employees there are at FedEx and how many days a year they work, I would be willing to bet that those pressures don't occur very often. Doesn't make it right but it also doesn't make it abuse and it certainly doesn't mean most part time employees are intensely pressured to work.

So if I'm part time and there's no work for me, I can go home and still get paid 2 hours? And if that happens every day, at the end of the week I'm going to get another 7.5 hours for sitting home? Damn that abuse really hurts.And what business doesn't schedule more employees when they are busy and less when they are not?

You do realize that there's absolutely no reason at FedEx to hire a part time employee over a full time employee unless that is what you need? It did/does at UPS because of the different pay scales. Many years ago I used to do the station's schedule before they wouldn't let hourly employees do it. I learned pretty quickly the need to have a balance between full and part time employees. If the Priority stops were increasing, why would you hire a full time employee to do 4 hours worth of work? Then you get into the situation that you are so willing to decry. Sending people home because there is no work. If there is enough increase in business to add a full time route, why would you hire part timers? It makes no sense to send someone out with just overnight deliveries and then have them drive all the way back to the station and then send someone out with the afternoon deliveries to the same area. Just hire a full time employee, which is what happens, more often than not in my experience.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'm not defending FedEx, per se, just pointing out some facts. If those facts make FedEx look better, well I can't help that.

Have managers pressured part time employees? I don't doubt it. Given how many part time employees there are at FedEx and how many days a year they work, I would be willing to bet that those pressures don't occur very often. Doesn't make it right but it also doesn't make it abuse and it certainly doesn't mean most part time employees are intensely pressured to work.

So if I'm part time and there's no work for me, I can go home and still get paid 2 hours? And if that happens every day, at the end of the week I'm going to get another 7.5 hours for sitting home? Damn that abuse really hurts.And what business doesn't schedule more employees when they are busy and less when they are not?

You do realize that there's absolutely no reason at FedEx to hire a part time employee over a full time employee unless that is what you need? It did/does at UPS because of the different pay scales. Many years ago I used to do the station's schedule before they wouldn't let hourly employees do it. I learned pretty quickly the need to have a balance between full and part time employees. If the Priority stops were increasing, why would you hire a full time employee to do 4 hours worth of work? Then you get into the situation that you are so willing to decry. Sending people home because there is no work. If there is enough increase in business to add a full time route, why would you hire part timers? It makes no sense to send someone out with just overnight deliveries and then have them drive all the way back to the station and then send someone out with the afternoon deliveries to the same area. Just hire a full time employee, which is what happens, more often than not in my experience.

Another apology for FedEx. I'm totally "surprised". Here's why I wonder sometimes if you're legit. You say that part-timer abuse is isolated, which is just plain wrong. And have you ever seen anyone get paid their minimums? They'll have you sweeping floors if necessary to make sure they get 17.5 hrs of work from you. I rarely have seen anyone get paid minimums, either full or part time because management monitors it very closely. Your MD will have a nastygram in your inbox pretty quickly if you do this.

There has been a marked shift toward part-timers instead of full-timers, another trend you should be familiar with. Just ask an RTD when the last time one of them got FT. What's astounding is that FedEx still has high turnover, even in a crappy economy. Sometimes they'll upgrade a position because they can't find enough bodies to fill all the holes in the schedule. It should be obvious that Fred is doing his best to make Express a part-time company. That way he can screw us again by diverting the E2 and SOS products over to Ground. Don't think that's in the plans? Where are all those roller-bed Ground trailers that were showing up at ramps and then suddenly disappeared when the whole RLA controversy heated-up? If anyone knows where they are being stored I'd love a picture and a location so I can forward the information to the right people. FedEx bought hundreds of them, and also installed container lifts and rollers at many Ground sort facilities. Wonder why that is?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
...they essentially got paid less for doing the exact same work as a full time employee.

Now substitute mid-range and topped out for part-time and full time. Exactly! UPS drivers were able to address their concerns through a union. Why can't we? And please spare me the spiel about how we can vote one in under the RLA.
 
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