MrFedEx

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
In this economy shippers are looking for every possible way to save money and they are willing to discount service to do so. The reality is the discount keeps growing smaller as Ground continues to improve.

Improve what?

Certainly not good service. They may be cheaper than UPS but the service is only as good as what a contractor is willing to pay and that ain't very much I'm afraid.

The "dead horse" is the gripe about "professional looking". The very live stallion is a company that continues to grow exponentially. Which one do you prefer to pay attention to?

Oh we're paying attention, make no mistake but not in the way you dream about it.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Isn't worrying about Ground's service quality a bit of a red herring? Just another way to attack FedEx? I really don't care about their service quality and I bet most Express couriers don't care. I feel for their drivers getting low pay and no benefits, but how they conduct their onroad service doesn't affect me. I've got enough on my plate dealing with Express mgrs as well as co-workers who are always looking for ways to be a pain in the posterior. Not to mention the poor pay and reduced benefits. BBSam gets a kick out of tweaking us but I say let him have his fun. He's got many years ahead dealing with FedEx. Don't envy him at all.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
That is a corporate decision, while trucks looking like crap are a decision in Express at the district or local level, and ground at the contractor level.
Being at the corporate level makes it ok? Why is that? How far up does it have to go for you to get a pass?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Improve what?

Certainly not good service. They may be cheaper than UPS but the service is only as good as what a contractor is willing to pay and that ain't very much I'm afraid.



Oh we're paying attention, make no mistake but not in the way you dream about it.
You are paying attention because at the root of it all, you know it is only a matter of time before your pay structure will mirror that of Ground drivers and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. 2013 will mark the year UPS rams a two-tiered pay system through the Teamsters that will feature half pay and reduced benefits. MFE and I have been in agreement about this "race to the bottom" for quite some time now and while I don't really like that fact, I don't complain about my position relative to it. I could have it much, much worse.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
What I am saying is brown socks isn't a decision an employee can do anything about! They're stuck with this from some cubicle bound pinhead!
Do you not think the same mindset is evident by crappy looking Fedex trucks? Do you not think a decision on a paint job is not being made by some "cubicle bound pinhead" regardless of where the cubicle is?
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
You are paying attention because at the root of it all, you know it is only a matter of time before your pay structure will mirror that of Ground drivers and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. 2013 will mark the year UPS rams a two-tiered pay system through the Teamsters that will feature half pay and reduced benefits. MFE and I have been in agreement about this "race to the bottom" for quite some time now and while I don't really like that fact, I don't complain about my position relative to it. I could have it much, much worse.

Yes there is a damn thing I can do about it, retire.

It come as no surprise the both Express and UPS might try to get away with low wages and benefits but really where's that gonna get them? A constant revolving door employees, excessive training expenses (if they'll even bother to do such a thing) a big lack of quality and consistency oh and yes a huge number claims and misdeliveries = a lot of pissed off customers who will go back to the postal service.

I'm sure Fred S would throw money at congress if he thought he could bring back slavery too.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Yes there is a damn thing I can do about it, retire.

It come as no surprise the both Express and UPS might try to get away with low wages and benefits but really where's that gonna get them? A constant revolving door employees, excessive training expenses (if they'll even bother to do such a thing) a big lack of quality and consistency oh and yes a huge number claims and misdeliveries = a lot of pissed off customers who will go back to the postal service.

I'm sure Fred S would throw money at congress if he thought he could bring back slavery too.
Yes you can retire. The rest you are probably wrong about. We don't have revolving door problems at my terminal. In fact, we have people waiting to come to work. The situation we are seeing is not industry specific, it is nation wide. The "quality and consistency" issues as well are not company specifie either, as many on this site will attest to. So as UPS attempts to squeeze more and more out of it's labor force, the "quality and consistency" will continue to increas and if Ground continues to improve, customers more and more see no difference at all in which service is used. Unless of course, price is a concern in which case we win easily.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
What I am saying is brown socks isn't a decision an employee can do anything about! They're stuck with this from some cubicle bound pinhead!
It is either brown socks w/ UPS logo (cannot be regular brown socks, even if colors are exactly the same). Or you can show no socks at all. One of the two.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
You are paying attention because at the root of it all, you know it is only a matter of time before your pay structure will mirror that of Ground drivers and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. 2013 will mark the year UPS rams a two-tiered pay system through the Teamsters that will feature half pay and reduced benefits. MFE and I have been in agreement about this "race to the bottom" for quite some time now and while I don't really like that fact, I don't complain about my position relative to it. I could have it much, much worse.
That just ain't happenin'. The company may, of course, offer it, but it will be rejected.

Half pay, is a top rate of roughly (in 2013) 16/hr. That's substantially lower than stingy FedEx.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
That just ain't happenin'. The company may, of course, offer it, but it will be rejected.

Half pay, is a top rate of roughly (in 2013) 16/hr. That's substantially lower than stingy FedEx.
Happened at John Deere. I would hope it wouldn't happen, but that seems to be the direction wages in the country are headed and there is no reason to believe that UPS can forever stem that tide.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Happened at John Deere. I would hope it wouldn't happen, but that seems to be the direction wages in the country are headed and there is no reason to believe that UPS can forever stem that tide.

UPS is a different animal than John Deere . You are out of your mind if you are going to cite that as an example to make a point that the teamsters are going to settle a top wage of 16/hr in 2013.
Not a good argument there, bbsam.


2004 Record full-year earnings of $1.406 billion are more than twice the level of 2003 earnings. Deere & Company announces plans to build a new tractor factory in Montenegro, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. The facility is expected to be in full production by the second half of 2006.

Good luck with that, UPS.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I agree with bbsam that UPS will introduce a two-tiered wage system during contract negotiations. I do not agree that top rate will be 1/2--a disparity that large would created a unbreachable divide between current and new employees--but I do think it will be at or near the $25/hr mark.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Yes you can retire. The rest you are probably wrong about. We don't have revolving door problems at my terminal. In fact, we have people waiting to come to work. The situation we are seeing is not industry specific, it is nation wide.

You're making me laugh. :happy-very:

You're making it sound like you have zero turnover at your terminal which I know is BS. If you have a workforce that relies on government aid and food stamps, then you have a worrkforce looking to go elsewhere.

But I won't keep you here I'll let you get back to fantasy land already in progress.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
You're making me laugh. :happy-very:

You're making it sound like you have zero turnover at your terminal which I know is BS. If you have a workforce that relies on government aid and food stamps, then you have a worrkforce looking to go elsewhere.

But I won't keep you here I'll let you get back to fantasy land already in progress.
Laughter is good for the soul. You don't have to belive anything. I had to fire a driver a couple weeks ago because of a discrepancy from 6 years ago. Before that, the last person that left working for me was over 3 years ago. In the past month, I've had two drivers call to enquire about coming back to work. One of them is driving up from Alabama to put the application in. I don't know. Maybe the job market around here is worse or people are more desparate.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with bbsam that UPS will introduce a two-tiered wage system during contract negotiations. I do not agree that top rate will be 1/2--a disparity that large would created a unbreachable divide between current and new employees--but I do think it will be at or near the $25/hr mark.
Company will offer $18/hr and union will settle for $21.50/hr and don't even get me started on how much those folks will be contributing to their health care.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You are paying attention because at the root of it all, you know it is only a matter of time before your pay structure will mirror that of Ground drivers and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
If you have little turnover at Ground, if people are calling you about jobs knowing the pay and benefit situation, why would FedEx pay your drivers as much as Express drivers? I can see different payscales for areas with certain market conditions, and for all I know that may be the case now. But where's the incentive to match Express? If you are thinking they'll hold Express down while Ground eventually catches us, maybe. But that'll take many years, same as mid-range Express couriers trying to catch top-out. FedEx is determined to wring as much productivity out of us for as little pay as possible. Their biggest concern payroll wise IMO is waiting out all the current older topped out couriers. Replacing them will be very profitable.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Company will offer $18/hr and union will settle for $21.50/hr and don't even get me started on how much those folks will be contributing to their health care.
Is UPS losing money now? Weren't they making more than this when they went on strike in 1997? You are so used to paying low wages you can't relate to drivers making a living wage.
 
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