my thoughts on new contract

[80GRAND]

Our local BA told us that it is a bad contract. The language buried in the details almost all goes to UPS benefit. GPS give backs unacceptable. 6 month wage split must not be accepted. It will be the standard from now on every new contract.
We have absolutely nothing to lose by making the 2 sides go back and talk some more. Nothing in this deal goes into effect until next Aug. This is not a strike vote, only a vote that says you must go back and do some more bargaining. I think that the deal will be sweetened if we just say no. UPS wants it accepted very badly for public relations reasons. The Union wants UPS Freight organization. We the drivers must hold them both accountable and let them know it is our contract. Vote No.

im with u ! too many concessions! we deserve a lil more of the pot!


hoffa please let me know where this best contract ever is!!!1:blush:
nothing but concessions since he came in!
hey!! where is carey???
u can say whatever u want but carey DELIVERED!!!!!!
hoffa= company lawyer
eskew's golf caddie

 

[Cole]

I had one steward try to lead me to believe that this contract proposal is all we are going to get, and we should be glad to get this. This steward smells of hopelessness.

One why don't you step up to the plate, and run against this person? Also, get the facts and pass them out, and the steward will lose all credibility if you're correct, and he backs a weak contract.

I just finished reading the tenative agreement, and I have to admit I am too tired to grasp alot of the Atty talk. I can however; say the new hires are getting reamed and no use of vasoline was negotiated. More often than not it defers to various supplements etc...and we all know a supplement can take away everything gained in the Nat'l that doesn't state specifically that is "supercedes all language on the subject etc...

Now for an 8 hr request instead of 24 hrs notice you are required 5 days, and there is some penalty pay, but that is precipitant on "conditions beyond the company's control". Also serious changes to excessive o/t language, and I am too tired to remember specifics. My computer has been messed up and I just got back online tonight, so I am trying to decipher the new language best I can at this time.

I'll print it tom and give a better opinion.

Oh yeah, now there seems to be more bogus committee's for about everything, so expect the same minute amount of justice along with these new committee's.

There's *seemed* to be some good language, but I'll have to rest and study it more thoroughly after work tomorrow night.

I just have a feeling the result of this contract has been in motion since Hoffa lite first ran for office. Take that for what it's worth, because it is my opinion.

As far as looking out and educating new members etc...nothing keeps us the informed members from stepping up to the plate, and now is the time to show the younger folks what's happening and why. We can't afford to make exscuses as to why we didn't.

As a rule I have always been taught and followed, Never vote yes for the first offer!

 

[BrownShark]

I am a 17 year package driver in Los Angeles, or WLA District. This new contract is the worst package I have ever been witness to. Other than the split raise which is unacceptable, has anybody checked out Article 37 for the new changes regarding 9.5 workdays?

If not, better read it, you will ch*t yourself.

This new language all but eliminates senority when it comes to dispatch as a junior driver may go home in 9.5 hours and a senior driver could be dispatched with a 12 hour load.

The "new" language protects the COMPANY and not the drivers. A new period of January 1st thru June 1st is the only time when overtime can be relieved from ANY DRIVER.

This decision has to be made in December the previous year. Its called an OPT in or OPT out program.

If you OPT in, you are asking the company to limit your dispatch to 9.5 hours between Jan 1 and Jun 1 each year. NO OTHER TIMEFRAME CAN BE INCLUDED, a net loss of 5 months.

If you OPT out of the 9.5 program, ALL DRIVERS WILL BE SUBJECT TO DAILY DISPATCH THAT COULD AMOUNT TO 12 HOURS monday thru friday and these drivers will have NO RECOURSE TO FILE A GRIEVANCE OR ASK FOR THE WORK TO BE REMOVED REGARDLESS OF SENORITY.

This would be for the period Jan 1 thru Jun 1 each year.

There will be 2 lists posted in December of the prior year and all drivers will be required to make a choice and sign up before Jan 1.

This is rediculous. Probably the worst piece of negotiating in the history of negotiating.

Instead of simplifying the daily dispatch to " no drivers shall be dispatched with more than 10.5 hours on road at any time" (with the exception of peak months, November and December) I cant see where this new language improves our daily operation. It only complicates it. Can you imagine the problems this will create in the operation each day. When you OPT out, you are subjecting yourself to WAD dispatch and you cannot get off the OPT out list until the next year.

For me, and the other 72 drivers in my center, we are voting to shoot down this contract offer. The entire contract is crap.

We cant wait for the suplementals to come out and see how far "they" stuck it in so we can determine how loud to yell.!

Peace brothers and sisters.

Brown Shark.

 

[Cole]

Yes I saw alot of backward steps in this new agreement, or the new company written contract.

 

[Surprised UPS Customer]

You people are incredible!!! As a customer who has taken rate increase after rrate increase to fund your salary growth, you all sound like a bunch of over paid whinners. I know your work is hard and it is easy to get injured. But if you hate it so badly, get out. That simple.

But in a time of no health care, families living below the poverty line and foreclosures you guys need to take a hard look around. If UPS treats you so poorly, take a leap and find a better job. Oh yeah, you can't as most of you have only a high school education and can't make this kind of wage with free benefits elsewhere.

And if you have very run a business, which I doubt about most of you part timers turned $100K a year driver, you would know that you have to MAKE and KEEP some profits to help grown your business. But I am sure that if you it got your way that supposed $4B in annual profits would all be split amoungst the employees. No new turcks but then again you never complain about that on this site either. Maybe higher wages but you buy the trucks is a better deal for you. Right!!!

Grow up. Complain when it makes sense and take a look around. You work hard, your customer's love your service (me included) and everyone knows that the driver makes your company. But keep your eye on the ball. But then again don't. Toyota makes a very nice vehicle and how does their union work. Thats right, it doesn't since they are union free. But then again, maybe all those non-union FDX drivers might like to take your business while you walk the line again. Like someone on the site noted, Wal-Mart is hiring and their benefits rock!!!!!!!!!!

 

[$killed Labor]

Grow up. Complain when it makes sense and take a look around. You work hard, your customer's love your service (me included) and everyone knows that the driver makes your company. But keep your eye on the ball. But then again don't. Toyota makes a very nice vehicle and how does their union work. Thats right, it doesn't since they are union free. But then again, maybe all those non-union FDX drivers might like to take your business while you walk the line again. Like someone on the site noted, Wal-Mart is hiring and their benefits rock!!!!!!!!!!

LOL someone that does not have a clue what goes on. FT are getting some what of a shaft but the part timers and new hires are really getting reemed.
I know alot of people that work for old brown that have 4year degress, masters etc. For the area I am located in it does no good. You have to relocate and if you can't, then your SOL.
PT starting wages is a slap in the face. When min wage is getting close to PT wages its a disgrace.

Since you are a customer, how you like your packages to arrive? All in one piece? or looking like it got ran over by a freight train.
The quailty has went down, people dont care cause they arent making enough money to care. Put fraigle all you want and arrows pointing up, do you think they care if it breaks?

How about this, go be a PT get paid $30/day to bust your ass and care and come back here and let me know what your feelings are.

My main point is, we cant keep help as it is now, with this contact we sure wont keep any if it does go though.

Dont even get me on started on the FT aspect of things,

I know your work is hard and it is easy to get injured.

You have no idea, what is hard and nothing about the injuries. For i.e a guy at my center has had 2 knee surgeries 3 back surgeries, and is only 34 and around 14 years of service. Wonder if he will be able to bend over and tie his shoes when he is 40? You think they took it easy on him when he came back? Nope, thrown back out to the wolves.

With that said, and you said "if you don't like it then leave"
LOL who would want a worn out ups driver with bad kness and a bad back?

 

[jccuch]

You people are incredible!!! As a customer who has taken rate increase after rrate increase to fund your salary growth, you all sound like a bunch of over paid whinners. I know your work is hard and it is easy to get injured. But if you hate it so badly, get out. That simple.

But in a time of no health care, families living below the poverty line and foreclosures you guys need to take a hard look around. If UPS treats you so poorly, take a leap and find a better job. Oh yeah, you can't as most of you have only a high school education and can't make this kind of wage with free benefits elsewhere.

And if you have very run a business, which I doubt about most of you part timers turned $100K a year driver, you would know that you have to MAKE and KEEP some profits to help grown your business. But I am sure that if you it got your way that supposed $4B in annual profits would all be split amoungst the employees. No new turcks but then again you never complain about that on this site either. Maybe higher wages but you buy the trucks is a better deal for you. Right!!!

Grow up. Complain when it makes sense and take a look around. You work hard, your customer's love your service (me included) and everyone knows that the driver makes your company. But keep your eye on the ball. But then again don't. Toyota makes a very nice vehicle and how does their union work. Thats right, it doesn't since they are union free. But then again, maybe all those non-union FDX drivers might like to take your business while you walk the line again. Like someone on the site noted, Wal-Mart is hiring and their benefits rock!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cole]

Yeah we believe you're not a manager! One, until you do our job, please do not tell us what to accept. Ask yourself why America was founded?

 

[sawdusttv]

There is a lot of vote "yes"-- vote "no" talk going around. The thing that desturbs me is that the so called contract agreement came out a few days ago and as usual it is filled with very vague language at best. When you talk to a union official or management person you get answers such as I thing it is going to be this way or that way, Or I am almost positive, I am 90% sure, etc.... If the agreement is made and they are preparing to send out ballots. Why can't we get any concrete, in black and white answers to what is actually in the new contract proposal. It only leads me to believe that they are not being honest with us, and have much to hide in order to get this contract to pass.
I don't thing that it is to much to ask, that we have it in plain english, down to the letter, what we will be voting on. It seems that they intend to have us cast our votes on pure faith, and not the concrete facts.
It is my opinion that we must send the company and the union a loud and clear message that until we get a very clear and concrete answer to what we are voting on, don't look for the contract to pass. We need to let them know that until we have a very clear and concrete understanding of this contract proposal, they will get nothing but "NO" votes. I don't think that asking to know what we are voting on is to much to ask.

 

[ogrelord]

here a link for the contract, beware it's pretty hard to read as is all contracts. http://www.teamster.org/divisions/parcel/pdfs/NewUPSMasterAgreement_071012.pdf

Most PT's work for ups to get the benfits and now they have to wait 1 year to get them. what type of people are we going to get in the centers? starting pay for someone is $8.50 in 2011. who's going to work for that? drivers think there loaders are bad now, just wait.

for driver an 8 hour request day will have to be put in writting 5 days in advance.

i'm sure theres more i just have really read the whole thing, just skimed it over.

I am going to vote no.. you all vote the way you want, but make an informed choice

 

[BrownShark]

Brothers and Sisters,

Reading it and understanding what youre reading are two different things. As a hint, anything in BOLD print is new language, anything with a line thru it is deleted language.

Depending on what classification youre in, read the articles that effect you most.

Essentially, all articles contain some form of concession that favors the company. There is NOT one article that is new or improves the protection of employees in any catagory.

It appears however, that UPS and the Teamsters left the feeder department alone with the exception of subcontracting, which the Teamsters have agreed to allow the company to hire outside the corridors for drop ships. Nonetheless, the point is this, by leaving the feeder dept alone, the fate of this contract rests with THEM.

They are both hopiing that the feeder dept will vote yes and cancel out the small percentage of part time votes, and the usual 3% of package drivers who vote on these issues.

Yes, the voting history of the UPS employees nationwide is sad. We all must motivate every employee in our buildings to read, understand whats at stake and vote no and demand that the union correct and remove the TERRIBLE language contained in article 37,43,44 and so on.

Hopefully, we can collectively convince the feeder drivers that although they are not affected that bad, WE ARE.

As a driver of 17 years, and a former executive officer of my local, I can say that this contract is full of concessions and precursers to disaster.

One key thing to look at is the pay raise issue and how it is being sold to ALL EMPLOYEES. This is what they are selling to us:

2008 70 cents
2009 75 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 85 cents
2012 95 cents

totalling $4.00 over five years.

BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the way it actually works out is over 6 years:

2008 35 cents
2009 72 1/2 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 80 cents
2012 90 cents
2013 47 1/2 cents

You see folks, our money is spread over 6 years and we lose a half penny for four years. So if you spread what we actually make over 5 years (aug2008 thru aug 2012) what does it total?

I'll tell you: $3.52 over five years, with 47.5 cents and hour due to us in 2013.

Its all a play on words and numbers.

If you are a sleeper driver, you get 2 cents a year per mile over 5 yrs or ten cents a mile increase. However, youll get a penny on aug 1 and the other penny on feb 1 the following year and so on.

This FUNNY math doesnt work for us brothers and sisters..

We need to vote this contract down and make them fix every article that affects us negatively.

 

[sawdusttv]

Brothers and Sisters,

Reading it and understanding what youre reading are two different things. As a hint, anything in BOLD print is new language, anything with a line thru it is deleted language.

Depending on what classification youre in, read the articles that effect you most.

Essentially, all articles contain some form of concession that favors the company. There is NOT one article that is new or improves the protection of employees in any catagory.

It appears however, that UPS and the Teamsters left the feeder department alone with the exception of subcontracting, which the Teamsters have agreed to allow the company to hire outside the corridors for drop ships. Nonetheless, the point is this, by leaving the feeder dept alone, the fate of this contract rests with THEM.

They are both hopiing that the feeder dept will vote yes and cancel out the small percentage of part time votes, and the usual 3% of package drivers who vote on these issues.

Yes, the voting history of the UPS employees nationwide is sad. We all must motivate every employee in our buildings to read, understand whats at stake and vote no and demand that the union correct and remove the TERRIBLE language contained in article 37,43,44 and so on.

Hopefully, we can collectively convince the feeder drivers that although they are not affected that bad, WE ARE.

As a driver of 17 years, and a former executive officer of my local, I can say that this contract is full of concessions and precursers to disaster.

One key thing to look at is the pay raise issue and how it is being sold to ALL EMPLOYEES. This is what they are selling to us:

2008 70 cents
2009 75 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 85 cents
2012 95 cents

totalling $4.00 over five years.

BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the way it actually works out is over 6 years:

2008 35 cents
2009 72 1/2 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 80 cents
2012 90 cents
2013 47 1/2 cents

You see folks, our money is spread over 6 years and we lose a half penny for four years. So if you spread what we actually make over 5 years (aug2008 thru aug 2012) what does it total?

I'll tell you: $3.52 over five years, with 47.5 cents and hour due to us in 2013.

Its all a play on words and numbers.

If you are a sleeper driver, you get 2 cents a year per mile over 5 yrs or ten cents a mile increase. However, youll get a penny on aug 1 and the other penny on feb 1 the following year and so on.

This FUNNY math doesnt work for us brothers and sisters..

We need to vote this contract down and make them fix every article that affects us negatively.

Shark,
You seem to have much experience reading between the lines of these very vague and misleading contract languages. I agree with you completely and try each day to point out the hocus-pocus in our contract to my fellow workers. I was told once, while reading a section in the contract book, and I quote: "That is what it says, but that is not what it means."

 

[Runner]

I keep reading posts that claim nobody votes on the contract and the Teamsters will tell us it was approved anyway. In 1990 the Teamsters told us to vote no on the contract, over 81% of eligible members voted and the contract was approved.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

 

[BrownShark]

One key thing to remember is how the language is written and whether it defines or confuses an issue.

Without clear and defined wording, the company at the operations level will twist and turn it till it fits the daily operation, no matter what hall and the company agreed to across a table.

While the interpretation may have been spelled out at the table, the vague and unclear syntax makes it easy for the company to use it against us.

Article 37 for example is re-written is a confusing and open ended fashion and leads the way to a multitude of disastrous senarios for package drivers.

Each article has a simple worded "out" for the company to use and they can use it by design. This design is intended to create confusion and leave interpretation up to the operators to make the right call.

But as any employee knows, that call is not always right and endless grievances have to be file over and over.

Vague is not good. We need and should demand clear and defined sentences that leave no wiggle room for the company.

Hopefully, we can all agree on this.

Peace.

 

[Cole]

But I am sure that if you it got your way that supposed $4B in annual profits would all be split amoungst the employees.

Wow! I never heard of CEO's etc...getting $30,000,000.00 bonuses. Yep they deserve it!

By the way pur gripes are not about pay raises, and it is our choice to evaluate what effects our futures!

 

[sawdusttv]

I keep reading posts that claim nobody votes on the contract and the Teamsters will tell us it was approved anyway. In 1990 the Teamsters told us to vote no on the contract, over 81% of eligible members voted and the contract was approved.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

I'm sure this must be a misprint. To my knowledge we have never come close to 81% voting. More like the 19% that is left over from the 81%. I could believe that.

 

[Up_and_at_UPS]

This contract is a step backwards for PTs.

The following has been taken away:

In addition to the general wage increases above, part-time employees who attained seniority as of
August 1, 2002 and were not red-circled in or before 1982 shall receive the following increases:
August 1, 2002 ten cents per hour ($0.10)
August 1, 2003 fifteen cents per hour ($0.15)
August 1, 2004 fifteen cents per hour ($0.15)
August 1, 2005 twenty cents per hour ($0.20)
August 1, 2006 twenty cents per hour ($0.20)
August 1, 2007 twenty cents per hour ($0.20)​

The raise progression has decreased, while inflation has risen:​

All part-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2002 2008 will receive the
following general wage increases for each contract year. In each of the years, the increase shall be
paid in two (2) equal installments. The first-half of the increase shall become effective on August 1
of the specified year. The second half of the increase shall become effective on February 1 of the
following calendar year. The total wage increase for each year will be as follows:
2008 seventy cents ($0.70)
2009 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
2010 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
2011 eighty-five cents ($0.85)
2012 ninety-five cents ($0.95)​

This is sad. What is even more sad is that it will probably pass.
!@#$%^&*()​

​

 

[JPJETS]

Just Vote No Its A Crap Contract And If The The Central States Think They Have A Good Deal Who Is To Say That You Wont Be Next

 

[browned_out]

Shark,
You seem to have much experience reading between the lines of these very vague and misleading contract languages. I agree with you completely and try each day to point out the hocus-pocus in our contract to my fellow workers. I was told once, while reading a section in the contract book, and I quote: "That is what it says, but that is not what it means."

The part about "that is what it says" is so true, I ran into that with my BA, I had my contract book out trying to make my point and he says "hang on let me get my book". He then proceeds to open his book which has alot of his own scribble in it, and tells me that "what it really means is this". I looked at him and said, then why don't they write that in the contract, he didn't have an answer.

 

[Cole]

I remember many years ago,, when anyone complained many managers would say "If you don't like it, go get fitted for a paper hat, (burger king etc...) All but one of those were eventually fired or forced to resign for dishonesty. I guess they went and got "fitted for the paper hat".