Need help/advise for being fired for so-called "dishonesty."
- Thread starter PHN4U
- Start date
OVERBOARD
Don't believe everything you think
You should've said something to the customer, work something out, I once hit a backboard, I talk to the customer all he want was for me to get rid of the eye soar for him, so I grab the backboard, the pole, threw it in the back of the pkg car and threw it out at one of my pickups trash bin and yes I ask before I did it. I know you said that you didn't hit backboard, but if you knew, you should've said something and you wouldn’t be in this predicament. BTW How many here, have hit a backboard? those things are a hazard, should be outlawed, they jump right out at you. lol
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Lets cut thru the BS and get to the meat of the matter.
UPS says you did, you say you didnt.
In order to fire you for dishonesty, they must prove that you knew you hit it and didnt report it.
Its going to boil down to the amount of damage to the vehicle and the hoop. It is entirely possible to cause a minor scratch on the vehicle that the driver is unaware of. But if you caved the roof in or knocked the hoop down, and the height of the damage matches up to the height of the hoop, you have problems.
I was once accused by a customer of backing into his rain gutter and crushing it. The customer swore up and down that he stood there and watched me do it, and that I got out and looked at the damage and then just drove away without reporting it.
My sup went out there with a camera to inspect the damage, and he had me meet him there in the pkg car. Upon further inspection, two facts came to light; the paint on the crushed rain gutter was white, and the roof of my package car was almost 6 inches lower than the gutter and passed completely beneath it without touching. When confronted with these facts, the customer suddenly remembered that "oh, maybe I'm confused, it might have been the plumber that came out here the other day in his white van".
UPS says you did, you say you didnt.
In order to fire you for dishonesty, they must prove that you knew you hit it and didnt report it.
Its going to boil down to the amount of damage to the vehicle and the hoop. It is entirely possible to cause a minor scratch on the vehicle that the driver is unaware of. But if you caved the roof in or knocked the hoop down, and the height of the damage matches up to the height of the hoop, you have problems.
I was once accused by a customer of backing into his rain gutter and crushing it. The customer swore up and down that he stood there and watched me do it, and that I got out and looked at the damage and then just drove away without reporting it.
My sup went out there with a camera to inspect the damage, and he had me meet him there in the pkg car. Upon further inspection, two facts came to light; the paint on the crushed rain gutter was white, and the roof of my package car was almost 6 inches lower than the gutter and passed completely beneath it without touching. When confronted with these facts, the customer suddenly remembered that "oh, maybe I'm confused, it might have been the plumber that came out here the other day in his white van".
paidover95
Well-Known Member
I think ups can pull the gps "photograph"of the actuall stop and prove if he hit it or not.I heard our BA talking about a similar incident,and the guy was lying.UPS had the gps photos of the guy backing into a driveway and backing into there basketball hoop.He lied about it and was fired.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Article 6
Section 4
(8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
(defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not
be changed because of the use of GPS.
govols019
You smell that?
There is no such thing as a GPS photo in real time.
Anonymous 10
Guest
If you truly didn't know you did it go into your hearing and stick your tail between your legs let your steward and ba do the talking don't say anything stupid or different from your first statement and take your suspension like a man. Learn from this incident if you have to walk around the block to avoid this kind of situation do it you cant get charged with shnit if you walk it.
freecarry88
Member
Blah blah blah, hit a basketball goal. The blah, blah, blah part will be used for the prevention part later, but you are concerned with only a few items now:
1. Did you know you hit it? (don't answer that)
2. What did the investigation turn up? (Does your supervisor/manager/DM THINK you knew? Everything will be used to determine this including long/lats, time between stops, damage to package car, witness statement, and your history.)
3. Be advised, this is not a criminal court case. it is more like a civil court case. It is not "beyond a reasonable doubt," but more like "a preponderance of the evidence."
If you did know and left, then doom on you. Some of the keys will be if the witness statement wrote that you got out and looked at it the goal/package car etc... unless you did something like leave a note of apology to the customer. (Yes I had one of those....he works construction now.) I truly hope you did NOT know you did it and this will all go away and you will make a better decision next time. In either case, please share your newly found wisdom with the other drivers in your building. Good luck.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
They do have the ability to take a GPS "picture" of the route you traveled the previous day. There is a colored line which represents your travel path that is superimposed over a Google Earth satellite photo. It shows everywhere that you stopped and everywhere that you backed up. There is also a printout of every backing event, with the vehicle speed and total distance backed; however, this information is often grossly inaccurate. Last week I was questioned about why I backed up a total of 111 feet at one stop. This was a physical impossibility; I backed into a driveway that is only 20 feet long, up to the loading door on a building that is only 90 feet long. Were the data accurate, I would have backed completely through both walls of the building and out into a creek behind it. Such data is worthless for disciplinary purposes, but it does give the center manager an opportunity to spend lots and lots of time sitting behind a desk and drawing on maps with a highlighter pen.
QKRSTKR
Well-Known Member
I won't put blame on you, obviously if you did hit it you didn't know it. Dishonesty in this matter or cardinal offense is: failure to report an accident that the driver had or should have had knowledge of.
If there is no damage to ups 's truck and no visible or barely damage to the backboard I don't see how they could prove it. If you felt it, got out and looked and someone seen you do that your screwed.
If there is no damage to ups 's truck and no visible or barely damage to the backboard I don't see how they could prove it. If you felt it, got out and looked and someone seen you do that your screwed.
Management always wants to tell you how something could be avoided after it happens. Drivers are not stupid. They know how to avoid what happened afterword. If you knew you were going to have an accident on friday .What could you do? Call in sick. If you knew you were going to bump your head. You would duck. My advice is use your union for help.Stick to your story. UPS believes in management by punishment.Any mistake is going to get maximum punishment.Your past record and loyalty to the company mean nothing.The union is on your side not the company. GOOD LUCK
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
wow, a year old post........
i love loopholes, and the company and union left this one in on purpose.
as long as they offer evidence that is not gps or diad based, then they can use the above prohibited information at will to bolster their case.
they do know what direction you were pointed, and exactly where you were at what time. so while it might not be exactly perfect, it is close enough to put more nails into a bad case.
bottom line, if you knew, and tried to hide it, you are gone. so if you got out to look, and someone saw you, your days as driver are over. even if you didnt, and stopped the package car to get out to look, they have records of that as well in the diad, so if you are lying, you will be caught.
d
i love loopholes, and the company and union left this one in on purpose.
as long as they offer evidence that is not gps or diad based, then they can use the above prohibited information at will to bolster their case.
they do know what direction you were pointed, and exactly where you were at what time. so while it might not be exactly perfect, it is close enough to put more nails into a bad case.
bottom line, if you knew, and tried to hide it, you are gone. so if you got out to look, and someone saw you, your days as driver are over. even if you didnt, and stopped the package car to get out to look, they have records of that as well in the diad, so if you are lying, you will be caught.
d
barnyard
KTM rider
and seeing as how the original poster never came back, I suspect the firing stuck.
Just be as truthful as you can with all. I was told several years ago that I tore down some guys electric line but when push came to shove the guy wasn't sure what happened. he just knew we were there that day with a package and he assumed I done it. This guy you are talking about may not have seen nothing but knew you were there. good luck.
