New DOT HOS Interpretation

[anonymous6]

That's all well and good, but the FMSCA website says under the new rules our break is not on-duty time. What now?

This question has nothing to do with the company at this point. The only question I have is does the FMSCA mean paid breaks, or unpaid breaks, or both? I would *hope* that a paid break would be on-duty time, but it doesn't say that.

I'd like to see that on the log book rules, can you post a picture? You just have to make sure it's a new book with the new rules.

well maybe I scewed up. but the dot rules state that all paid hrs go towards your 60. even an outside part time jobs' hrs count towards your 60. so now I;m totally confused. i'll have to do some research over the weekend.

 

[brett636]

I think your mgmt team is as full of crap as mine is right now.

We've had three different rule interpretation changes just this week.

Here, paid breaks do count to 60 in five or 70 in eight.
Haven't heard the 15 min thing. ( I call bs)

Here they are doing the " rolling hours" method of no 34 hr resets, off two 1-5am periods, are needed until either you run out of 70 in 8 or you break the cycle by taking a day off after which the rules apply and you have to reset.
Yest it was posted "if you are in the public eye "STREETERS" the you must take the dot mandated 20/10 break by your 8th. Everyone not a streeter interpreted it as not mandated for them and did not take the break.
Since the Friday after tgiving lunches per the contract are optional.............as long as you take the dot 20/10 before your 8th.
Streeters can go over 70 in 8 as long as everything over 70 is in the yard.
Not technically dot but we've had 22.3 shifters drive up to 18.5 hours in a shift. I'm sure that's safe.

Don't ask me to explain any of that as I have no clue. I'm sticking to 60/5 from here on out.

There is a lot of confusion from both management and drivers on this 70/8 rule here. Some people, including certain on road supes, think that means you are in a perpetual 8 day rolling cycle and the 34 hour reset has no relevance. Meaning that if I work a typical 5 day work week and take the weekend off as a reset I still have to keep my hours from the previous Friday in mind when starting on Monday which is not the way the rule works. It doesn't help that the way the system tracks our hours it never shows our 34 hour reset whether we get it or not so it is always showing us with fewer hours under the 8 day rule on a Monday than the 60/7 day rule. Kinda stupid, but whatever. I am with you, while I am doing a little extra through the week I am not screwing up my reset by working a Saturday or Sunday.

 

[104Feeder]

Paid breaks should have always been "off duty" time, as the classification applies to what you are doing (work or no work) not wether you are paid or not. They could pay us for our meals and it should still be recorded as "off duty" time. The Company is finally doing that part right anyway, now as to the other requirements of EOBR's.....

 

[cachsux]

We'll the hour rules are again out the window as mgmt is going so far as to send out texts all but begging for drivers to come in Saturday "so that we can remain successful and not lose large accounts such as amazon". Uh huh,ok.

I'll have to ask my mgr to give my wife pointers on "personal gratification" in return for favors.

 

[over9five]

Ugh, I have decided (for myself, many others are fighting it), that the new HOS rules do mean paid breaks do not go towards your 60.
I think it SUCKS, as imho 60 hours is plenty. This adds 1 hour and 40 minutes HERE to your available time.
It also makes it more of a bitch to keep track of your hours, especially if you work nights (overlapping Midnight). You day guys wouldn't understand! We have to keep hours for a 24 hour day, midnight to midnight for the DOT. Already we have to add the hours we worked after midnight on Tuesday to the hours we work from start till Midnight the next shift. NOW you have to add those breaks in for your available hours.... Last night I made the mistake of taking break from 23:56 to 00:06. Had to put 4 minutes on Thursday and 6 minutes on Fridays figures. Won't do that again.

 

[fiddledee]

yes, it is on the FMsCA on log book rules. I don't care what the company says. my license is DOT and I obey their laws. maybe Dracula will back me up on this.

DOT has never made the distinction of paid for time as a qualifier for defining on duty time versus off duty time. DOT has always defined meal and breaks as off duty time. They don't care if you're getting paid for your meal or break.

Most companies do not offer the paid breaks and meals. The quickest and easiest way for the DOT officer to explain it was paid for time but its not 100 percent accurate. If you had asked him specifically about paid breaks he would have corrected himself.

The good news is being wrong about the 10 minute paid break gives you a cushion if you miscalculate your hours on a tight day.

 

[fiddledee]

This page on the DOT point specifically defines drive time, meal and breaks and the paid for time question:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.2&guidence=Y

check out questions 1 and 10

 

[Dracula]

Well, I'll say this: the FMCSA doesn't make any of this crap easy to understand. SO many of these rules seem to conflict with each other. And our feeder managers don't know any of this, no matter what they say. Our managers tell us that we don't need the 1AM to 5AM, two days in a row rest, as the rules say.

And last year, while I was stuck in traffic in a bad snow storm, as I was running out of hours, I called the on-road office to let them know I might not have time to make it back before my time ended. The manager I was talking to instructed me to go onto breakdown time, since I was stuck in traffic. I told him I wouldn't do that, because I wasn't broke down, and breakdown time is considered on-duty. I may have had the terms wrong, but I had the idea correct. Question 25 answers the problem I had last winter. Time spent stuck on a highway or a traffic jam is considered "driving time", since you are still at the controls.

 

[anonymous6]

this rule adds 2.5 hours to our week which saves the company 5 % in drivers. this translate to a million dollar savings for our hub alone.

major coin and major aging to this driver.

 

[anonymous6]

Well, I'll say this: the FMCSA doesn't make any of this crap easy to understand. SO many of these rules seem to conflict with each other. And our feeder managers don't know any of this, no matter what they say. Our managers tell us that we don't need the 1AM to 5AM, two days in a row rest, as the rules say.

And last year, while I was stuck in traffic in a bad snow storm, as I was running out of hours, I called the on-road office to let them know I might not have time to make it back before my time ended. The manager I was talking to instructed me to go onto breakdown time, since I was stuck in traffic. I told him I wouldn't do that, because I wasn't broke down, and breakdown time is considered on-duty. I may have had the terms wrong, but I had the idea correct. Question 25 answers the problem I had last winter. Time spent stuck on a highway or a traffic jam is considered "driving time", since you are still at the controls.

you are able to use the "safe haven rule" under certain circumstances but I believe it is only good for 15-20 minutes unless you have been "directed to proceed" by a law enforcement officer.

one of our drivers went out of hours and parked in the breakdown lane( traffic jam during snowstorm ) on the interstate and was directed to proceed to our hub by law enforcement since he was a hazard to public safety. if he had been over 15 minutes from hub he would of been directed to take the next exit and find a safe parking spot.

just as a previous poster said, you ask 10 different people these questions and you get 10 different answers. even the scale DOT officers have given me different answers but they do say the same thing. " if we direct you to proceed, you go! "

 

[Wally]

It would seem to me a "break" is rest time, so it shouldn't count, unless you're a runner- gunner.

 

[chuchu]

DOT has never made the distinction of paid for time as a qualifier for defining on duty time versus off duty time. DOT has always defined meal and breaks as off duty time. They don't care if you're getting paid for your meal or break.

Most companies do not offer the paid breaks and meals. The quickest and easiest way for the DOT officer to explain it was paid for time but its not 100 percent accurate. If you had asked him specifically about paid breaks he would have corrected himself.

The good news is being wrong about the 10 minute paid break gives you a cushion if you miscalculate your hours on a tight day.

If your manager approves it, we can punch in a second lunch to cover unproductive on duty time but you have to be totally relieved of duties or it's falsification of DOT hrs.

 

[barnyard]

If your manager approves it, we can punch in a second lunch to cover unproductive on duty time but you have to be totally relieved of duties or it's falsification of DOT hrs.

I have done this. Sometimes a 2nd, unpaid lunch is a nicer alternative to 'busy work.'

 

[cachsux]

I got called to come in early for tomorrow. If I stay till my normal leave time that will be 16 hours. We'll see if that's how it goes or have the rules changed again.

 

[hondo]

Under the old HOS rules, the co. had to decide if they were going to use either the 60 hours in 7 days or 70 hours in 8 days limit. They couldn't change which limit they used to suit their convenience. Has this changed?

 

[over9five]

Under the old HOS rules, the co. had to decide if they were going to use either the 60 hours in 7 days or 70 hours in 8 days limit. They couldn't change which limit they used to suit their convenience. Has this changed?

Excellent question. We were discussing this at work the other day.

 

[104Feeder]

Under the old HOS rules, the co. had to decide if they were going to use either the 60 hours in 7 days or 70 hours in 8 days limit. They couldn't change which limit they used to suit their convenience. Has this changed?

Here they were changing it to suit their convenience, 70/8 if you were on sleeper, 60/7 if not. Now they aren't supposed to but I haven't come across this particular problem lately.

 

[over9five]

Here they were changing it to suit their convenience, 70/8 if you were on sleeper, 60/7 if not.

Well, that they do here.

 

[over9five]

Here they were changing it to suit their convenience, 70/8 if you were on sleeper, 60/7 if not.

Wanted to add that we have sleeper cover guys who are on the 70/8 plan, and when they work a regular non-sleeper job they remain on the 70/8 plan.

 

[hondo]

Just took a quick look at HoS:

14-Hour Limit May not drive beyond the 14th consecutive hour after coming on duty, following 10 consecutive hours off duty. Off-duty time does not extend the 14-hour period.

I think 14 hours still means 14 hours, regardless of paid/unpaid breaks/lunches or on/off duty time. IMO you gotta be off the street & in the yard 14 hours after you start.