New FMCSA rules July 1st 2013

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Disagree. Upstate wants to take less of a lunch. This new rule says you have to take at least 30 minutes. If Upstate is supposed to take 45, then it doesn't affect him at all. Still has to take his 45.

The new rule would supersede a contractual break of LESS than 30 minutes.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
You are missing the point-----I would prefer taking only the 30 minutes, not the full 45, and was wondering if this directive would (legally) allow me to do just that.
The 30 minute minimum FMCSA law must be fulfilled first. Then you go to the contract language. So you still need to take your 45. We get an hour here between 4th and 5th. So we are in a similar boat. Still need to fulfill the 30 (or 45 in your case) in 8.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
Disagree. Upstate wants to take less of a lunch. This new rule says you have to take at least 30 minutes. If Upstate is supposed to take 45, then it doesn't affect him at all. Still has to take his 45.

The new rule would supersede a contractual break of LESS than 30 minutes.
I just meant that the fed law would supersede the supplement in general. Yes he would still take his 45.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Taking a lunch in the middle of the day vs at the end doesn't mean one's route has to be blown up, nor does it mean more drivers need to be hired. In some cases, minor tweak need to be made; in others, methods checks will be in order.

My own experience: this year I have finally begun taking all 60 mins of lunch, and 10 min break, day in and day out. A big reason for this was the realization that skipping lunch not only SHOULDN'T be necessary to finish a route on time, it really ISN'T (that is to say, it's not just that the company shouldn't set up routes that require skipping lunch-as many if not most drivers feel like they do-but that not properly methods was the culprit, in part because the guys covering me could take their hour lunch AND THEN SOME). At first I bombed, as expected, and they blew up, also expected. Then came the pressure, some harrasment, and 3 rides, although not consecutively. In tuose rides I rediscovered certain methods, and my day became such that I could take an hour lunch more frequently.

My management team also put pressure on me to abide strictly by the 3rd to 5th hour rule (although the language actually provides for more flexibility than that, if left to one's own devices), i believe in part to dispel my belief that it was not possible to take an hour lunch in the middle of the day and do my route properly. After I began to run more effectively they backed off, bt now i had a desire to explore that idea further, and began experimenting on how I ran. Minor tweak, so as to get more done at certain times, can make a world of differnece. For Instance, my residential area where i regularly do 30 stops an hour, no sweat. There is an apartment complex, however, that takes more of a 20 sph pace. I must attempt a delivery at the apartment before I leave Items at the rental office, their rules. This complex is in my edd to be done early, but now i do it a little later to get more done before my pickups; my day has gotten shorter. In addition, I now notice delays like waiting for a receiver to come and sign, or even why I need to get them to sign before scanning the pkgs (some do resist doing so, but they typically stay by while I scan and are there when I am done scanning; those who used to get away and leave me hunting for a signature understood real fast when I explained my "change" in method, and now comply).

Minor adjustments, some re-training. Some routes may need to be adjusted. For a time, some airs for mall I do but not close to my area were taken off, but further experience has shown I can do those as well. I never needed to sacrifice my lunch, or run-and-gun to take one; I needed to work smarter.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
I hope you are correct ApettyJ, but I fear you are not.
I've had all my rides, and there is too much commercial, to get to any residential, much less take 30 minutes out, and they know it PERIOD> Until after 5. After my rides, it was suppose to get fixed, and then nothing.
And my route is not the only one. We have been literally slammed, and if we tried to talk to someone to explain they treat us like crap, just do it.
We shall see.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Taking a lunch in the middle of the day vs at the end doesn't mean one's route has to be blown up, nor does it mean more drivers need to be hired. In some cases, minor tweak need to be made; in others, methods checks will be in order.

My own experience: this year I have finally begun taking all 60 mins of lunch, and 10 min break, day in and day out. A big reason for this was the realization that skipping lunch not only SHOULDN'T be necessary to finish a route on time, it really ISN'T (that is to say, it's not just that the company shouldn't set up routes that require skipping lunch-as many if not most drivers feel like they do-but that not properly methods was the culprit, in part because the guys covering me could take their hour lunch AND THEN SOME). At first I bombed, as expected, and they blew up, also expected. Then came the pressure, some harrasment, and 3 rides, although not consecutively. In tuose rides I rediscovered certain methods, and my day became such that I could take an hour lunch more frequently.

My management team also put pressure on me to abide strictly by the 3rd to 5th hour rule (although the language actually provides for more flexibility than that, if left to one's own devices), i believe in part to dispel my belief that it was not possible to take an hour lunch in the middle of the day and do my route properly. After I began to run more effectively they backed off, bt now i had a desire to explore that idea further, and began experimenting on how I ran. Minor tweak, so as to get more done at certain times, can make a world of differnece. For Instance, my residential area where i regularly do 30 stops an hour, no sweat. There is an apartment complex, however, that takes more of a 20 sph pace. I must attempt a delivery at the apartment before I leave Items at the rental office, their rules. This complex is in my edd to be done early, but now i do it a little later to get more done before my pickups; my day has gotten shorter. In addition, I now notice delays like waiting for a receiver to come and sign, or even why I need to get them to sign before scanning the pkgs (some do resist doing so, but they typically stay by while I scan and are there when I am done scanning; those who used to get away and leave me hunting for a signature understood real fast when I explained my "change" in method, and now comply).

Minor adjustments, some re-training. Some routes may need to be adjusted. For a time, some airs for mall I do but not close to my area were taken off, but further experience has shown I can do those as well. I never needed to sacrifice my lunch, or run-and-gun to take one; I needed to work smarter.

This all sounds fine and dandy but the truth is this is only going to hurt you. Say you are doing 140 with pickups and getting in at 7:30-8:00PM. Now say you do these tweaks and discover by rearranging work and changing the way you run the route you can now do 140 + pickups and be done at 6:30PM. Saving an hours time. Now your numbers look good, you get to go home earlier and now you feel good. How long do you think that is going to last? Dispatch will see you are doing 140 and being done by 6:30PM. They see this as an opportunity to give you another 20 stops from a cut route. So now instead of doing 140 you're doing 160. Thats how you are rewarded for your hardwork.

I am simply dumbfounded that drivers can not grasp that concept.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
This all sounds fine and dandy but the truth is this is only going to hurt you. Say you are doing 140 with pickups and getting in at 7:30-8:00PM. Now say you do these tweaks and discover by rearranging work and changing the way you run the route you can now do 140 + pickups and be done at 6:30PM. Saving an hours time. Now your numbers look good, you get to go home earlier and now you feel good. How long do you think that is going to last? Dispatch will see you are doing 140 and being done by 6:30PM. They see this as an opportunity to give you another 20 stops from a cut route. So now instead of doing 140 you're doing 160. Thats how you are rewarded for your hardwork.

I am simply dumbfounded that drivers can not grasp that concept.

The 20 extra stops will be from a company favorite so he can get off early without working harder.
 

danlin

Well-Known Member
This all sounds fine and dandy but the truth is this is only going to hurt you. Say you are doing 140 with pickups and getting in at 7:30-8:00PM. Now say you do these tweaks and discover by rearranging work and changing the way you run the route you can now do 140 + pickups and be done at 6:30PM. Saving an hours time. Now your numbers look good, you get to go home earlier and now you feel good. How long do you think that is going to last? Dispatch will see you are doing 140 and being done by 6:30PM. They see this as an opportunity to give you another 20 stops from a cut route. So now instead of doing 140 you're doing 160. Thats how you are rewarded for your hardwork.

I am simply dumbfounded that drivers can not grasp that concept.
I have been there for over 33 years now and this is EXACTLY what will happen...
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
I hope you are correct ApettyJ, but I fear you are not.
I've had all my rides, and there is too much commercial, to get to any residential, much less take 30 minutes out, and they know it PERIOD> Until after 5. After my rides, it was suppose to get fixed, and then nothing.
And my route is not the only one. We have been literally slammed, and if we tried to talk to someone to explain they treat us like crap, just do it.
We shall see.

Yeah we got the PCM. Our management team had us start taking break last week to give them time to figure it out.

It was admitted during the PCM that they know some routes have too many business to get done and take break. I blame no one other than the drivers of these routes. I take all my break everyday. Some days all it adds is the hour break. Others it can added an extra hour two on top of that.
 
4

40andOut

Guest
It might be good to brush up on laws and regulations concerning breaks and meal periods;

A Bona fide meal period (normally unpaid lunch) must be compensated (paid for time) if UPS requires you to do anything, including staying by your truck awaiting a meet point with another driver, this would be considered being engaged in waiting (paid) vs waiting to be engaged (unpaid).

UPS drivers are mobile crews. As such UPS must allow prompt access to nearby toilet facilities. UPS must also allow you to drive to the toilet facilities when you need to go.

In addition to the regulations below many States have laws allowing restroom breaks each and every 4 hr period worked.

U.S. Dept of Labor and OSHA:
http://www.dol.gov/compliance/topics/wages-other-breaks.htm

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screenEE4.asp

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screenEE5.asp

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screenEE8.asp

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs22.htm

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24369

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.search_form?p_doc_type=INTERPRETATIONS&p_toc_level=3&p_keyvalue=1910.141&p_status=CURRENT

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22932

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22739
 
4

40andOut

Guest
A few quick questions, For those who have dealt with these issues, not just opinions:

1. Would the 30 minute period have to start or end before 8 hrs have been clocked?

2. Would a district policy which requires a driver to count the time spent driving to and from a lunch site as break (1/4 mile allowed off trace each way) violate the new or existing federal regulations?....We are told to count the time driving as unpaid break. Are we allowed to drive off the clock?

3. If you are miles from the nearest restroom UPS has to let you drive to it (paid break) but how is that time spent traveling PROPERLY entered (if at all) into the DIAD as break? What if you are out of paid break?
 
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Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
If u get in an accident on break does that mean u can't be fired?

You get paid anytime your driving the truck. Some rural routes I may drive 3-5 miles to go take lunch.

The way I read the law. Break must be finished before 8 hours.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
If u get in an accident on break does that mean u can't be fired?

You get paid anytime your driving the truck. Some rural routes I may drive 3-5 miles to go take lunch.

The way I read the law. Break must be finished before 8 hours.

Always save one/two stops where you plan to take lunch. Even us rookies know that.
 
A few quick questions, For those who have dealt with these issues, not just opinions:

1. Would the 30 minute period have to start or end before 8 hrs have been clocked?

We were told "begin" the minimum 30 by 7:59 at the latest.

2. Would a district policy which requires a driver to count the time spent driving to and from a lunch site as break (1/4 mile allowed off trace each way) violate the new or existing federal regulations?....We are told to count the time driving as unpaid break. Are we allowed to drive off the clock?

They may tell you it counts, we cut this of at the knees long ago in 705, but you are not supposed to operate a vehicle off the clock.
As far as the new guidelines this unpaid time will not count towards the 30 as you have not been relieved of all obligations and are not free to leave the vehicle.

3. If you are miles from the nearest restroom UPS has to let you drive to it (paid break) but how is that time spent traveling PROPERLY entered (if at all) into the DIAD as break? What if you are out of paid break?

As far as the new guidelines this does not count towards any break required.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Did it ever occur to you, indecision, that some drivers are asked to carry a heavier load precisely because of drivers like yourself who have an aversion to a normal work day and thus intentionally give less than a fair effort? That's part of the problem. FWIW, yes I both understand and have experienced what you have observed. I also realized that in the beginning I could only do so much, but as i got better the load is expected to rise. Unless you are a street hire you've probably heard (but may not actually SEE) the graduated work load. It appears some get the newbies' load and think that Is normal, cry and complain when they get what an experienced driver should get, thus causing an imbalance in the center that those who work properly are forced to shoulder, some more willingly than others.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Did it ever occur to you, indecision, that some drivers are asked to carry a heavier load precisely because of drivers like yourself who have an aversion to a normal work day and thus intentionally give less than a fair effort? That's part of the problem. FWIW, yes I both understand and have experienced what you have observed. I also realized that in the beginning I could only do so much, but as i got better the load is expected to rise. Unless you are a street hire you've probably heard (but may not actually SEE) the graduated work load. It appears some get the newbies' load and think that Is normal, cry and complain when they get what an experienced driver should get, thus causing an imbalance in the center that those who work properly are forced to shoulder, some more willingly than others.

Don't hate the playa hate the game.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
The other thing you may have missed Indecision is the tweaking of the route was NOT to get done early. It was to accommodating the lunch and breaks that should have been factored into the day from the get go. Thus, tweaking the route will not result in some extra time management will feel obligated to fill; rather, instead of getting off at 8:30 every night being 2.00 over, i now am closer to my planned day, which more or less stays the same everyday, but including my lunch and breaks. This is one time getting the work done quicker will NOT result in more work, and this has been my experience.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
Did it ever occur to you, indecision, that some drivers are asked to carry a heavier load precisely because of drivers like yourself who have an aversion to a normal work day and thus intentionally give less than a fair effort? That's part of the problem. FWIW, yes I both understand and have experienced what you have observed. I also realized that in the beginning I could only do so much, but as i got better the load is expected to rise. Unless you are a street hire you've probably heard (but may not actually SEE) the graduated work load. It appears some get the newbies' load and think that Is normal, cry and complain when they get what an experienced driver should get, thus causing an imbalance in the center that those who work properly are forced to shoulder, some more willingly than others.

Don't hate the playa hate the game.
True dat!
 
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