NLRB Charges by APWA against UPS Going to Hearing

J

JonFrum

Guest
Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

. . .There will be no decert vote!
We are not asking to decert and become non-union.
We are only voting to change which union represents us. We are still unionized just under a different union. In order for this to happen, we vote the teamsters out and the APWA in at the same time. We don't go one minute without being unionized.
Once the APWA is voted in, per NLRB rules we would follow the existing contract while the new union negotiates a new contract. We would never be one minute without a contract or union representation. . .

. . .The rules for this type of (for lack of better words) changing of the guard is spelled out in detail on the NLRB website, although it does require quit a bit of reading, but if you want it from the horses mouth, that would be the place for you find the answers without being accussed of hear-say. But I assure you that this is not the NLRB's first time handling this very situation and they have all bases covered, no matter how many lawyers the teamster have. The NLRB is a government agency that will not but up with any lawyer games. There procedures are cut and dry, and not open for debate.

Breathtaking!

There are two main types of NLRB elections: A Decertification Election, and a Representation Election. In a Decertification Election, the sole point is to throw out the Teamsters and leave us with no union. This is NOT what the APWA says they seek. In a Representation Election, the one the APWA says it intends to bring about, the intention is to throw out the Teamsters and replace them with the APWA. However in both types of elections, the ballots have "no union" as one of the choices. Thus, a Representation Election is not just a contest between two unions, but a decertification election as well for anyone who wants to vote for decertification.

In a Representation Election, other unions can also appear on the ballot if they want to, so the actual election may be amongst more than just the Teamsters vs the APWA. If none of the choices gets enough votes, a run-off election is held between the two top votegetters. The option of "no union" may be one of them.

UPS itself can ask for a Representation Election any time it feels the Teamsters have lost the support of half the bargaining unit. The APWA can ask for an election only with a showing of 30% of signed cards. If the Teamsters negotiate a new contract first, the APWA is prohibited from asking for an election for two years and ten months.

The possible participation of other unions and the mandatory inclusion of the "no union" choice on both ballots throws a degree of unpredictability into the mix.

There are currently three bargaining units at UPS. Petitions can be made to the NLRB to change the size and scope of the bargaining units either by combining them or spliting them up by region or by job, say, part-time vs full-time, or whatever.

There are a hundred issues that can be raised and litigated along the way. It's even possible the process will be so unpleasant that many may ultimately be disgusted with all unions and not vote, or vote for total decertification. Some feel that way already. If several other unions join in, the "pro-union" vote could be split and the "no union" choice could win with a relatively small vote.

If a union wins, and after a year, no new contract is agreed to, the whole election petition process can start all over again. Note that the UPS Pilots union contract just took four years to conclude. And the Pilots were a breakaway group from the Teamsters; they didn't try to take the whole UPS membership with them. Besides they are governed by the far less risky Railway Labor Act, not the National Labor Relations Act, as we are.

Everyone should pay close attention as events unfold. And learn all you can in the meantime.
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

Breathtaking!

There are two main types of NLRB elections: A Decertification Election, and a Representation Election. In a Decertification Election, the sole point is to throw out the Teamsters and leave us with no union. This is NOT what the APWA says they seek. In a Representation Election, the one the APWA says it intends to bring about, the intention is to throw out the Teamsters and replace them with the APWA. However in both types of elections, the ballots have "no union" as one of the choices. Thus, a Representation Election is not just a contest between two unions, but a decertification election as well for anyone who wants to vote for decertification.

In a Representation Election, other unions can also appear on the ballot if they want to, so the actual election may be amongst more than just the Teamsters vs the APWA. If none of the choices gets enough votes, a run-off election is held between the two top votegetters. The option of "no union" may be one of them.

UPS itself can ask for a Representation Election any time it feels the Teamsters have lost the support of half the bargaining unit. The APWA can ask for an election only with a showing of 30% of signed cards. If the Teamsters negotiate a new contract first, the APWA is prohibited from asking for an election for two years and ten months.

The possible participation of other unions and the mandatory inclusion of the "no union" choice on both ballots throws a degree of unpredictability into the mix.

There are currently three bargaining units at UPS. Petitions can be made to the NLRB to change the size and scope of the bargaining units either by combining them or spliting them up by region or by job, say, part-time vs full-time, or whatever.

There are a hundred issues that can be raised and litigated along the way. It's even possible the process will be so unpleasant that many may ultimately be disgusted with all unions and not vote, or vote for total decertification. Some feel that way already. If several other unions join in, the "pro-union" vote could be split and the "no union" choice could win with a relatively small vote.

If a union wins, and after a year, no new contract is agreed to, the whole election petition process can start all over again. Note that the UPS Pilots union contract just took four years to conclude. And the Pilots were a breakaway group from the Teamsters; they didn't try to take the whole UPS membership with them. Besides they are governed by the far less risky Railway Labor Act, not the National Labor Relations Act, as we are.

Everyone should pay close attention as events unfold. And learn all you can in the meantime.


Nice post Jon,
Thanks for the in depth info!
However, a very large number of UPSers feel that we are getting little to no representation, or bad representation now from the teamsters.
This being the case, that minumizes the risks of an unexpected outcome. It is an often used phrase that I hear all the time from fellow UPSers.
"What do we have to lose?"
"Bad Representation?"
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

Far less risky RLA?

That is where we disagree friend! Let's see, RLA you can't strike right? You have to go center by center to organize under that, which is very costly witha large group etc...See Fed Ex, because since they're under the "far less risky" RLA, it is an enormous undertaking, and little progress has been made in that arena.
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
The NLRB is even less effective than OSHA!

Cole,

I was thinking of the period after the APWA (in their dreamworld) is certified as our new bargaining agent. It will be a dangerous time because the Teamsters' contract will disolve and we will be relying on the "protections" of the NLRB and their difficult system of enforcing the *limited* Status Quo doctrine with Unfair Labor Practice charges. To see how risky this is, read these factsheets that tell how ineffective and slow the NLRB is. . . .
http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/

Exerpts:
"32% of workers lack a collective bargaining agreement one year after voting for union representation, due to weak [NLRB] labor law enabling employers to avoid bargaining with employees."

"$0.00 - the amount the NLRB can fine an employer for willfully bribing, threatening, assaulting, or firing pro-union employees."

Under the circumstances, I consider the RLA's reliance on mediation, and avoidance of strikes, a good thing during the "changing of the guard" period, especially if UPS drives a hard bargain and the interim period drags on. Remember, no employer is ever required to agree to anything, they just have to *appear* to be bargaining in "good faith." And if they eventually bargain to an Impasse, they can impliment their plan unilaterally!

I wasn't thinking of the RLA's requirement that a company had to be organized nationwide, because UPS is already organized into the "national master" bargaining unit, a single, nationwide unit. [Locals 705 and 710 are seperate units, I know.] [I'm also aware that some FedEx divisions fall under the NLRB and can be organized one building at a time.]
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

Far less risky RLA?

That is where we disagree friend! Let's see, RLA you can't strike right? You have to go center by center to organize under that, which is very costly witha large group etc...See Fed Ex, because since they're under the "far less risky" RLA, it is an enormous undertaking, and little progress has been made in that arena.

Cole,
I think that you are mistaken. We strike in 97' and one back in the 70's. where are you getting that we can't strike?
 

krash

Go big orange
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

Your not really that stupid are you. Maybe Cole should type slower so you can keep up.
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

SawDust bro,

I wasn't saying we can't strike now, I was saying if we were under the RLA, (Railway Labor Act) we couldn't strike, in response to jon forum's post about the RLA etc...

Yes FedEx ground is now under the NLRB if I am not mistaken, but the air-op is still RLA.

As far as "dreamworld" friend the Teamsters was a dream at one time. Some would say it's become a nightmare at times:tongue_smjk

jon you have made some good points, and thank you for taking time to research and add to the discussion. Whether we like it or not, we need to hear every side and angle.

Have a good Holiday weekend all!
Be safe and enjoy your families:thumbup1:
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
Re: The NLRB is even less effective than OSHA!

....To see how risky this is, read these factsheets that tell how ineffective and slow the NLRB is. . . .
According to Jon and his "reliable source", the NLRA and a $1.25 will only get you a one-way ride on the subway. Ineffective and slow... No fines... Inability to enforce the NLRA... The $110 million that the NLRB recovered on behalf of employees begs to differ to the contrary.

NLRB General Counsel’s Summary of Operations (Fiscal Year 2006) said:
  • A 96.7% settlement rate was achieved in the Regional Offices in meritorious unfair labor practice cases.
  • Initial elections in union representation cases were conducted in a median of 39 days from the filing of the petition, with 94.2% of all elections conducted within 56 days.
  • The Regions won 86.4% of Board and ALJ decisions in whole or in part.
  • A total of $110,727,428 was recovered on behalf of employees as backpay or reimbursement of fees, dues, and fines, with 2,927employees offered reinstatement.

"32% of workers lack a collective bargaining agreement one year after voting for union representation, due to weak [NLRB] labor law enabling employers to avoid bargaining with employees."
Even if this number is true, this suggests that 68% of workers do have a contract within a year. But the number cited by unions deals with the number of employees, not the percentage of newly certified units without a contract. One or two very large units could easily skew the unions’ numbers. Of course, the absence of a contract suggests that the unions may be making unreasonable proposals. The current laws contain remedies for circumstances where employers may fail to bargain in good faith.

"$0.00 - the amount the NLRB can fine an employer for willfully bribing, threatening, assaulting, or firing pro-union employees."
While the NLRB may not have the statutory authority to fine employers, there are criminal statutes prohibiting employer bribery of union supporters. Additionally, the NLRB is empowered to use the Federal Courts’ civil contempt processes to seek civil penalties for violations of its enforced orders.
Electrical Workers Local Must Pay Fines And Fees for Contempt of Appeals Court Orders

Jon, lets continue to accurately portray things as they truely are with good sources. I'd hate to see your good reputation tarnished.
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

SawDust bro,

I wasn't saying we can't strike now, I was saying if we were under the RLA, (Railway Labor Act) we couldn't strike, in response to jon forum's post about the RLA etc...

Yes FedEx ground is now under the NLRB if I am not mistaken, but the air-op is still RLA.

As far as "dreamworld" friend the Teamsters was a dream at one time. Some would say it's become a nightmare at times:tongue_smjk

jon you have made some good points, and thank you for taking time to research and add to the discussion. Whether we like it or not, we need to hear every side and angle.

Have a good Holiday weekend all!
Be safe and enjoy your families:thumbup1:

I don't understand what the RLA has to do with our situation. Of course we would have different rules to follow under the RLA or the AFL\CIO< or the auto workers union, or the steel workers union,etc,etc,etc. Yes there would be change under a new union, but change is not always bad, especially when the representation that you have now is sub-par.
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
Re: Pope Sawdust the First pontificates thusly . . .

The RLA doesn't have anything to do with our situation, I was just commenting on Jon's statement about it.
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
Waiting for an Update

Can someone post a link to the NLRB's decision in this case. I've checked
http://www.nlrb.gov
but couldn't find anything.

In the meantime, here's a link to a court case involving UPS and the Teamsters, where UPS plays hardball with accrued vacation pay after a contract has expired.

UNITED PARCEL SERVICE, INC.,
v.
UNIÓN DE TRONQUISTAS [Teamsters] DE PUERTO RICO, LOCAL 901
 

tieguy

Banned
In response to Brett and Cole's discussion in another thread......

I questioned the officers via email regarding the NLRB charges you guys mentioned.

Ten NLRB charges have been filed against the Massman Drive, Nashville, Tn facility for violations stemming from comments made by UPS manager "little man" Robert ******* earlier this year. In his comments, which were made in multiple meetings to multiple shifts, "little man" unwisely and inaccurately instructed his employees on their rights pertaining to union activities. He also made derogatory and inaccurate comments about the APWA. The APWA gave UPS several opportunities to correct this violation before filing charges, but UPS failed to acquiesce. Therefore a total of 10 charges were found to have merit by the Tenn NLRB office and these charges will go to hearing. The date will most likely be determined Friday, 5/18. NLRB will encourage UPS and APWA to arrive at a consensual agreement by self-arbitration. If an agreeement is not arrived at, a formal hearing will take place and if the charges are upheld, a minimum fine of $10,000 per charge could be assessed as well as public apologies/restoration by UPS.

For further details, contact the Nashville NLRB office:

Nashville (Resident Office, 26)
810 Broadway - Suite 302
Nashville, TN 37203-3859
Resident Officer: Joseph H. Artiles
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (CST)

TEL: 615-736-5921
FAX: 615-736-7761

boo hoo hoo , wah wah . UPS manager said something I didn't like. Curious how did all the nlrb cases against overnite turn out?
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: Many legal obstacles stand in their way. . . Bump. . . Ouch!!!

Not in the workplace...Just threats against people trying to organize the APWA from what I hear, and it's to be expected.

and who are you alleging is doing the threatening? teamsters or the company?
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
Re: Many legal obstacles stand in their way. . . Bump. . . Ouch!!!

and who are you alleging is doing the threatening? teamsters or the company?

Teamsters, old style scare tactics, such as physical harm to members and their families etc...
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
Re: Waiting for an Update

Can someone post a link to the NLRB's decision in this case. I've checked
http://www.nlrb.gov
but couldn't find anything.

I spoke with the nice people in the Nashville NLRB office this afternoon. The case numbers are:

26-CA-22718
26-CA-22773


Both cases deal with multiple charges stemming from actions taken by the management at the Massman Drive facility including intimidation, threats of termination of employment due to union activity, encouragement by management to support Teamster activity , and the list goes on. The agent would not give me any other details other than that it was still in the investigative phase and that a decision should be given in july.

In addition there are charges currently filed in Memphis, South Florida (feeder driver actually terminated for APWA activity), and Texas. Seems as though the Brown Machine doesn't appreciate its employees supporting the APWA.

Feel free to contact the NLRB for more information.

Nashville (Resident Office, 26)
810 Broadway - Suite 302
Nashville, TN 37203-3859
Resident Officer: Joseph H. Artiles
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (CST)
TEL: 615-736-5921
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: Waiting for an Update

I spoke with the nice people in the Nashville NLRB office this afternoon. The case numbers are:

26-CA-22718
26-CA-22773

Both cases deal with multiple charges stemming from actions taken by the management at the Massman Drive facility including intimidation, threats of termination of employment due to union activity, encouragement by management to support Teamster activity , and the list goes on. The agent would not give me any other details other than that it was still in the investigative phase and that a decision should be given in july.

In addition there are charges currently filed in Memphis, South Florida (feeder driver actually terminated for APWA activity), and Texas. Seems as though the Brown Machine doesn't appreciate its employees supporting the APWA.

Feel free to contact the NLRB for more information.

Nashville (Resident Office, 26)
810 Broadway - Suite 302
Nashville, TN 37203-3859
Resident Officer: Joseph H. Artiles
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (CST)
TEL: 615-736-5921

Does not make sense . What article of the contract would he be discharged under?
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
Re: Waiting for an Update

A very good question, Tie!!!! Nospin, we await your answer. -Rocky
Can't say I know every specific of that case. Id suggest that you call the field offices in Florida to get the particulars of the NLRB charge. From what I've heard about it, the fella was a obvious APWA proponent. And I can't remember if it was the BA or his manager who told him that they would use every opporutnity to have him fired. This guy, who has a clean driving record, got a few scrapes on one of his doubles from a Jersey wall and they used that to fire him. There was no due process. He did not receive warning letters or the appropriate punishment. His local obviously defended him feverishly. :rolleyes: In filing the NLRB charges, the APWA provided several affidavits of his co-workers in which they received far less disclipinary action but for far worse offenses. Like I said, I would check with the field office to see what concrete details they can give you.

I'll let one of you fellas make the phone call this time.

Tampa (Region 12)
South Trust Plaza Suite 530
201 East Kennedy Blvd
Tampa, FL 33602-5824
Regional Director: Rochelle Kentov
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (EST)
TEL: 813-228-2641
FAX: 813-228-2874

Jacksonville (Resident Office, 12)
550 Water Street, Suite 340
Jacksonville, FL 32202-
Resident Officer: Thomas J. Blabey
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (EST)
TEL: 904-232-3768
FAX: 904-232-3146

Miami (Resident Office, 12)
Federal Building, Room 1320
51 SW 1st Avenue
Miami, FL 33130-1608
Resident Officer: Harold A. Maier
Hours of Operation: 8:00 am - 4:30 pm (EST)
TEL: 305-536-5391
FAX: 305-536-5320
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
The NLRB Wheels of Justice Turn Slowly

I was looking for a final Decision here . . .
http://www.nlrb.gov/cases-decisions/research
but apparently, these cases are still being processed here . . .

Below is all the information available on the four APWA cases I found . . .

Unfair Labor Practice (Complaint Case) Case Information Display
Case Name: United Parcel Service, Inc.
Case Number: 26-CA-22718-001
Date Case Filed: 03/26/2007
Date Complaint Issued: No Complaint Was Issued.
Date Case Closed: Case Is Not Closed.
Dispute State/Zip/Region: TN/ 37210/ Region 26
Appeal Determination: No Appeal Determination Data Available.
Advice Determination: No Advice Determination Data Available.
A.L.J. Determination: No ALJ Determination Data Available.
Board Determination: No Board Determination Data Available.
Regional Action(s): No Regional Action data available.
Section(s) of the Act:
8(a)(1)Coercive Statements, including Threats
8(a)(1)Surveillance
8(a)(1)Rules: No-Solicitation/No-Distribution Rules
8(a)(1)Interrogation
8(a)(1)Concerted Activities: Other Allegations
Close Method: No Close Method Data Available.
Close Timing: No Close Timing Data Available.
NAICS Code: Postal Service
Charged Party: United Parcel Service, Inc.
Union Name: Association of Parcel Workers of America
Employer Name: United Parcel Service
Case Status: Contempt

- - - - -
Unfair Labor Practice (Complaint Case) Case Information Display
Case Name: United Parcel Service
Case Number: 26-CA-22773-001
Date Case Filed: 06/08/2007
Date Complaint Issued: No Complaint Was Issued.
Date Case Closed: Case Is Not Closed.
Dispute State/Zip/Region: TN/ 37210/ Region 26
Appeal Determination: No Appeal Determination Data Available.
Advice Determination: No Advice Determination Data Available.
A.L.J. Determination: No ALJ Determination Data Available.
Board Determination: No Board Determination Data Available.
Regional Action(s): No Regional Action data available.
Section(s) of the Act:
8(a)(1)Coercive Statements, including Threats
8(a)(4)Other Allegations
Close Method: No Close Method Data Available.
Close Timing: No Close Timing Data Available.
NAICS Code: Postal Service
Charged Party: United Parcel Service
Union Name: Association of Parcel Workers of America
Employer Name: United Parcel Service
Case Status: Investigation

- - - - -
Unfair Labor Practice (Complaint Case) Case Information Display
Case Name: United Parcel Service
Case Number: 26-CA-22774-001
Date Case Filed: 06/11/2007
Date Complaint Issued: No Complaint Was Issued.
Date Case Closed: Case Is Not Closed.
Dispute State/Zip/Region: TN/ 38118/ Region 26
Appeal Determination: No Appeal Determination Data Available.
Advice Determination: No Advice Determination Data Available.
A.L.J. Determination: No ALJ Determination Data Available.
Board Determination: No Board Determination Data Available.
Regional Action(s): No Regional Action data available.
Section(s) of the Act:
8(a)(1)Rules: No-Solicitation/No-Distribution Rules
Close Method: No Close Method Data Available.
Close Timing: No Close Timing Data Available.
NAICS Code: Local Messengers and Local Delivery
Charged Party: United Parcel Service
Union Name: Association of Parcel Workers of America
Employer Name: United Parcel Service
Case Status: Investigation

- - - - -
Unfair Labor Practice (Complaint Case) Case Information Display
Case Name: Teamsters Freight Local 480 (United Parcel Service, Inc.)
Case Number: 26-CB-04803-001
Date Case Filed: 03/26/2007
Date Complaint Issued: No Complaint Was Issued.
Date Case Closed: Case Is Not Closed.
Dispute State/Zip/Region: TN/ 37210/ Region 26
Appeal Determination: No Appeal Determination Data Available.
Advice Determination: No Advice Determination Data Available.
A.L.J. Determination: No ALJ Determination Data Available.
Board Determination: No Board Determination Data Available.
Regional Action(s): No Regional Action data available.
Section(s) of the Act:
8(b)(1)(A)Duty of Fair Representation
8(b)(2)Other Allegations
Close Method: No Close Method Data Available.
Close Timing: No Close Timing Data Available.
NAICS Code: Postal Service
Charged Party: Teamsters Freight Local 480
Union Name: Association of Parcel Workers of America
Employer Name: No Employer Data Is Available.
Case Status: Appeal Filed

- - - - -
A search for United Parcel Service generated 500 cases here . . .

which may be the maximum number of cases the search engine can display without narrowing the search.

You can also search for Representation/Election Cases.
 
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