No humanity allowed in the workplace!

[Catatonic]

Packages first, then people.

I can actually recall a UPS where people used to come first.

That's a good memory.

 

[toonertoo]

Its a sad case, but why didnt he push the fmla issue from the get go? That wouldnt have given the sups any wiggle room if what they could do, if he didnt have fmla as hoke said you have to hold everyone to the same standard or you create a workplace of you did this and this for so and so but wont for me.....

Because people do not realize, how much time they will need, or that it is available or what it even is. I did not understand the concept until I had a sick spouse. And I used it even though I was told, it'll be Ok dont worry about your job, worry about your husband. While that was comforting, I had no idea how long it would last or if I get a new manager tomorrow, will it change. So I applied. It was granted and I had the stress relieved, I could do what I needed to and my job was protected. You may be suprised that people do not know what benefits and rights they have. I have told people about short term disability who never knew they were entitled. Your boss doesnt tell you, the union doesnt tell you, they will if you ask, but if you dont ask, you may never know.
That is why we have to be advocates for each other. One guy had been off multiple times and ended up having half of a lung removed, and now is on total disability, but he got his pay for the back times once he knew he was entitled. Some times you have to be nosy, and as uncomfortable as it may be to delve, ask people if they know, if they are sick or in a crisis, just ask, "are You Ok" and how can I help, and then get the info for them if they are too distraught to get it. This was a sad story, fighting for your life, you die from something totally separate. Yes stress kills.

 

[705red]

Its a sad case, but why didnt he push the fmla issue from the get go? That wouldnt have given the sups any wiggle room if what they could do, if he didnt have fmla as hoke said you have to hold everyone to the same standard or you create a workplace of you did this and this for so and so but wont for me.....

I can tell by reading your posts that you would do the exact same thing that this auditor sup did. I can only hope that this company will never promote anymore people like the two of you!

This employee if you could read had never had any talk withs over his previous 5 years. i would exchange hellos in passing with him a few times a week when we crossed paths. But that does not mean that he knew what the contract said or even knew state and federal laws.

Of course its real easy for you to question why a man that was facing a serious illness like cancer would be too consumed by emotions for himself and his family to forget to ask his sups what he should do.

Once he was questioned and he explained he was going through chemo and other treatments he was explained about FMLA. He should not have been disciplined then or even a week later because some desk jockey could not process his paper work timely.

I was actually hoping this was a rare occurance but from reading others in this thread this is sad. A company that is as large as UPS and to treat employees like this is just wrong.

I know its not right, but i do wish a painful and slow death on any human being that treats people like Rick was treated.

I want the company to rescind the discipline! I will not withdraw these grievances and take them to panel if need be. An employees record should not be tarnished for his years of service because he got sick and eventually died.

 

[Catatonic]

I can tell by reading your posts that you would do the exact same thing that this auditor sup did. I can only hope that this company will never promote anymore people like the two of you!

This employee if you could read had never had any talk withs over his previous 5 years. i would exchange hellos in passing with him a few times a week when we crossed paths. But that does not mean that he knew what the contract said or even knew state and federal laws.

Of course its real easy for you to question why a man that was facing a serious illness like cancer would be too consumed by emotions for himself and his family to forget to ask his sups what he should do.

Once he was questioned and he explained he was going through chemo and other treatments he was explained about FMLA. He should not have been disciplined then or even a week later because some desk jockey could not process his paper work timely.

I was actually hoping this was a rare occurance but from reading others in this thread this is sad. A company that is as large as UPS and to treat employees like this is just wrong.

I know its not right, but i do wish a painful and slow death on any human being that treats people like Rick was treated.

I want the company to rescind the discipline! I will not withdraw these grievances and take them to panel if need be. An employees record should not be tarnished for his years of service because he got sick and eventually died.

It's sad that the union's actions in the past forces the company to act in this manner.

 

[705red]

It's sad that the union's actions in the past forces the company to act in this manner.

I have enjoyed reading alot of your posts in the past. But its obvious by your last few posts that its a great thing that you are out of the operation aspect of this company!

 

[drewed]

I can tell by reading your posts that you would do the exact same thing that this auditor sup did. I can only hope that this company will never promote anymore people like the two of you!

This employee if you could read had never had any talk withs over his previous 5 years. i would exchange hellos in passing with him a few times a week when we crossed paths. But that does not mean that he knew what the contract said or even knew state and federal laws.

Of course its real easy for you to question why a man that was facing a serious illness like cancer would be too consumed by emotions for himself and his family to forget to ask his sups what he should do.

Once he was questioned and he explained he was going through chemo and other treatments he was explained about FMLA. He should not have been disciplined then or even a week later because some desk jockey could not process his paper work timely.

I was actually hoping this was a rare occurance but from reading others in this thread this is sad. A company that is as large as UPS and to treat employees like this is just wrong.

I know its not right, but i do wish a painful and slow death on any human being that treats people like Rick was treated.

I want the company to rescind the discipline! I will not withdraw these grievances and take them to panel if need be. An employees record should not be tarnished for his years of service because he got sick and eventually died.

Red this holier then thou atittude you have may bite you in the ass someday

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's sad that the union's actions in the past forces the company to act in this manner.

Hoax, I have to admit that this post is out of character from what I have come to expect from you.

 

[705red]

Red this holier then thou atittude you have may bite you in the ass someday

Typical management tactics! Once it is pointed out that you are an ass! You then threaten my job over it! Bring it on! You do not like me as a steward and that's great with me! I'M not here to be liked by management! However i do my job the way i was trained and everyone of my customers even on my new route adore me.

Once management was made aware of his illness and they informed him of his rights they now have the responsibility to expedite his FMLA request! Not threaten his job and medical benefits which he was using to cover his treatments!

This is not something that is normal behavior for alot of the managers i deal with daily. This sup and others that believe what this sup did was right should all be removed form their positions at ups and never heard from again!

 

[Catatonic]

Hoax, I have to admit that this post is out of character from what I have come to expect from you.

Unfortunately, this is how it appears to me Upstate.
The company can not make exceptions because the union comes back and uses that as precedence for extending the accommodation extended to one employee for a particular circumstance to all employees for all circumstances.
That's my observations from personal experience 30 years ago, 20 years ago and when I left operations 17 years ago.
I get enough feedback to know that it is the same way now.

I also know that we make these type of accommodations to non-union employees all the time. The only difference is the fact that the Union is in between UPS and the individual employee.

I'm very willing to listen to any arguments that will make me change my mind.

I also know that if this was me, I would find a way to take care of this employee.

 

[Catatonic]

This is not something that is normal behavior for a lot of the managers i deal with daily.

I certainly hope not ... this is not acceptable behavior and leadership for any management person.
A real leader would find a way to take care of someone in this circumstance.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Hoax, thank you for the reply. I understand that in a Union environment you cannot make exceptions because if you do it for one than you have to do it for all. However, and I am glad that you added this part, there is a human element to this job and if there is a way that situations such as this can be handled to ensure that this person's needs are taken care of while ensuring the operational needs are met then that is what needs to be done.

 

[drewed]

Typical management tactics! Once it is pointed out that you are an ass! You then threaten my job over it! Bring it on! You do not like me as a steward and that's great with me! I'M not here to be liked by management! However i do my job the way i was trained and everyone of my customers even on my new route adore me.

Once management was made aware of his illness and they informed him of his rights they now have the responsibility to expedite his FMLA request! Not threaten his job and medical benefits which he was using to cover his treatments!

This is not something that is normal behavior for alot of the managers i deal with daily. This sup and others that believe what this sup did was right should all be removed form their positions at ups and never heard from again!

Whatever Red, holier then thou, Ill remember that everything else is just BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[exupser87]

There's 2 ways to co-exist with UPS mgt. Kiss some hindquarters, or do your job and stand your ground. The vast majority of people who write on this thread, are of the second variety.

FLMA would have covered this employee for sure, and I agree that he should not havr been treated this way. When I was there, I never treated my employees like that, but guess what ? Despite consistently being the highest performing hub supervisor they had, I didn't have too many freinds in the upper management ranks. That's what happens to supervisors and managers there that have people skills. They don't fit in.

The UPS way is to document everything. That's why drivers are fired for cracking a mirror. The management philosophy is if this employee turns sour at a later date, we better have everything documented. So, if that driver has another incident, we have him by the short hairs. They feel like the union will get his/her job back if they are a good performing driver. That way, their posterior is covered if there is any sort of legality problem( gee judge, we fired that driver, and the union forced us to take him back. Look at the write ups we had . We could see a pattern. We did everything we could by firing him, but it's the unions fault that this happened now).

705red, you are exactly right, but that company philosophy has been there for years.

 

[trplnkl]

Wow, Reds in rare form again. The supervisor was in his rights, whether its right or wrong morally, he hadnt been approved for fmla yet, he had all these attendance strikes recently against him already, to keep business as usual which the company and IBT want a warning letter should have been issued. Red Im sorry for your loss, but we've had this discussion before you expect the company to cater to these special circumstances and it just cant be done and I dont know why you persist in thinking they should. Should any management try to work with this person? Of course, but the he should have filed for FLMA as soon as he found out about the condition and when Ive had family use FLMA, when the diagnosis was found the Drs brought it up when they talked about side effects and what not

I hope that you never get seriously ill, they won't skip a heart beat to sweep your ass under the rug.

 

[BrownSuit]

Not to be a broken record . . .

Its a sad case, but why didnt he push the fmla issue from the get go?

As Red said and others, you would be surprised how many people are unaware of what they are and aren't entitled to under federal law. FMLA is still fairly new as far as legislation goes, in this case the person may not have known that they could use it to apply to individual occurrences instead of a block of time.

What should have happened was the supervisor should have documented future occurrences, brought the guy back in upon returning to work with the Steward to explain what was happening and held discipline pending the outcome of the FMLA. If it was denied, by all means, fire the guy, but it sounds like it would have been approved.

It's sad that the union's actions in the past forces the company to act in this manner.

I have enjoyed reading alot of your posts in the past. But its obvious by your last few posts that its a great thing that you are out of the operation aspect of this company! You drewed and this full time auditor sup on the twilight in palatine will all eventually get what you have coming!

And i hope its slow and painful!

Red, this is a bit over the top. I hope for the guy's family (I gathered from your post that he has since passed on) that you are able to win reinstatement for the benefits and for his record.

Hoax is simply trying to point out that management is nailed dead to rights by the union for consistency. Based on the information we have I don't agree completely with how it was handled, but that doesn't make it wrong necessarily. Regardless this occurrence had to be documented and the union notified as well to avoid any conflict later on.

I'm assuming this happened in the 705, which is a very pro-union area. If the situation were slightly different or if the union didn't like the guy, what's to keep them from going after management on this one? I agree that the situation would have been dramatically different if it involved a non-union employee or even a union employee in another part of the country.

Wishing death upon somebody is not something that you should be doing, regardless of the situation. You may want to step back and choose your words. I've enjoyed your posts and understand your frustration, but this is over the top.

 

[wannabeups]

Several weeks back we had an employee that was brought in the office for attendance. This employee is a part time auditor on the twilight shift. During the conversation he explained that he has called in here and there because he has cancer and is going through treatments. The treatments take a toll on his body and if he could come to work he would.

He was explained his rights under FMLA which he would now apply for. But before he left the office he was placed on notice of suspension for his attendance.

A little over a week later while he was still waiting for his FMLA to get approved he called in again because he was not up to coming in to work after his treatments. He was now placed on notice of termination for his attendance.

This supervisor already knew that he is sick. She already knew that he has applied for the FMLA. She knew that he is fighting for his life but obviously does not care.

I tried my best to inform him that he has nothing to worry about that we would not allow him to lose his job because hes sick with cancer and that the treatments he was goiing through made him to sick to come to work.

This employee has over 5 years in as a part timer and has never had any talk withs for anything!

This is why I do what I do! This has been eating me up the last few days because this employees heart gave out and he died. He died thinking that the company he worked for wants to fire him because he was sick.

When someone is sick we band together to show support and help them through the tough times. Crap even ups hits us up for United way donations yearly. But they can not show an employee a little respect during these times?

I have a baptism to go to today and I can assure you that I will be praying hard for karma to come back around on this sup!

They need to realize KARMA is a b*tch

 

[trplnkl]

Red, I think you may have misread or misinterpreted Hoax's posts here. Go back and re-read them. For your own sake.

 

[dilligaf]

Red, I'm sorry. I have read many of your posts and know that this has affected you deeply. I know you take your job of being a steward very seriously. And to lose someone so permanently, with no way of 'getting their job back', I can only imagine that it would mean a great deal to you to win this one posthumously. To clear his record. I hope you do.


Some of you need to learn some compassion.

 

[exupser87]

Red,

I still gotta agree. I'll give you an example of the UPS production approach. I had a guy during Christmas that double shifted for me 2 years in a row. The guy was an animal. real bright, hard worker, excellent communicator, etc. Everything he did for me was great, with one exception. He went to the restroom a lot.

Ups, used to use, and maybe still does, use this exact scenario as an example of a problem an hourly employee that needs to be dealt with. Not being a complete idiot, I realized that frequent trips to the bathroom was a behavior that was inconsistent with ALL of his other actions. I did not approach him about it. After I had known him a couple of weeks, he told me that he had recenty had a fight with intestinal cancer, and that half of his intestines had been removed. This guy was working 2 shifts at UPD with a colostomy bag that he had to check and empty frequently.

The choice I had was to follow the company line, and "find out what his problem is" or cut him some slack. I have never been so glad in my life that I had more consideration for this guy than that. Now somebody can write back and say the company hired you to do things their way, etc., ect., but if you are a truly sorry human being, you will error on the inconsiderate side. These are exactly the kind of things that made me appreciate the union, when I was in management.

 

[705red]

He was placed on notice of termination. He never lost his job and he did qualify for FMLA eventually. Any poster that agrees in what the sup did is out of their mind!

The last thing anyone needs while battling for their life is to worry about losing their job which also supplies the benefits that they use for the medical that they are receiving.

And if any of you agree with what this sup did i stand by my statement. This was not an employee that was in trouble in the past. This was an overall good employee that got sick! Not someone trying to play the system or a game. And the sup knew at the time of discipline what this person was facing.

This is the same building where the old DM allowed a driver that had passed to be transported from the church to the cemetery in his package car. So i do not believe that all management would be so cold hearted in this situation. I have also received several pms form other sup posters encouraging me to go as high as i can with this complaint which i now will.