No More PT Overtime...

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Tol-Load, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Tol-Load

    Tol-Load New Member

    Last night I was informed that I was REQUIRED to clock out before I hit 5 hours of work, because they are cutting overtime. Problem is while walking out of the building I saw a good handful of PT sups finishing the hourly workers jobs. Is there anything we can do?
  2. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Absolutely! BUT, you have to make sure all your i's are dotted and your t's crossed. How's that?

    Make sure you're available for the work. Make sure you're qualified for the work (skilled or unskilled?). Make sure you notifiy your steward. If none available, talk to other department stewards. Still no help? Talk to Union BA. File grievance if practice does not stop. File for the supe work to stop and for the money that you would have made had you done the work.

    This is it in a nutshell but you get the point? Others will share more details.
  3. LVD*4*LIFE

    LVD*4*LIFE Member

    DONT WAIT FOR ANYTHING! I would file in a heart beat if I was forced to clock out before hitting overtime, then saw sups doing union work. Get a shop steward.
  4. Funfact

    Funfact Well-Known Member

    what ever you do don't get into a pissing match with any SUP. Keep a recoed of everytime you see SUP doing hourly work and see your shop steward and file a grievance to stop the SUP from doing hourly work.
  5. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Here's the Master Contract language. Check your Regional Supplement for "Supervisor Working" language also.
    UPS Master Agreement & Regional Supplements:
  6. steeltoe

    steeltoe New Member

    I do not see how we did not see this coming in the last contract negotiations. Supervisors working is a problem, but the meat of the story is in the fact that no one can work doubles or get overtime. The company covered this very easily with the latest contract language and we took it Hook, Line, and sinker.

    Now that the company does not have to pay benefits for new-hire part-timers for 1 year, they can over staff as many people as they want to cover the work. The just send home the newbies if they do not need them, and no questions are asked for 2 reasons.

    1. The new people do not know the contract language.
    2. Better yet, we hire nothing put thugs who do not need a job. So they go home 2 or 3 times a week and do not care.

    The building I work at is overstaffed by about 20%. They have the usual call ins and send the rest home every night. No gripes from the low end of the totum pole and it cost the company basically nothing to handle it this way. Before this new contract, they would not overstaff near as much due to the cost of insurance after 90 days for the new hires.

    During the vacation picking in October, I noticed only 11 people out of a sort list of 126 people qualified for vacation. That means less than 10% of the staff has been on board for 1 year.

    Get ready, it is going to get worse, just as the 9.5 language is not the same as agreed upon in the contract. We can blame ourselves.
  7. chopstic

    chopstic New Member

    From what I have witnessed, i would not file a grievance for just one day of supervisor's working (not if i know that they will continue to do it). Our sups seems to not care about the small grievances. I would get solid documentation on the supervisor's working for a couple weeks without saying anything, and THEN lay down a grievance thats a big one.
  8. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    But first check your regional Supplement for time limits. In New England, for example, you have five days to report the matter to your Steward, and he has two days to report it to Management. Anything older than that is untimely and will be rejected. (There's no Statute of Limitations on murder, but there is on almost everything else!)

    You should also be prepared to explain why you waited those extra days. True, the Company deserves it, but you will look devious and loose the moral high ground in some people's eyes.
  9. kingOFchester

    kingOFchester Well-Known Member

    A fellow UPSer/BC poster gave me some great advice. Worked like a charm today. Recently they have been asking us to clock out and go home. Today I was told to clock out. I already had my 3.5, but I knew there was more work with no union employee to do the work. I asked, "who is going to do the work"? The Sup said "the guy down there" pointing in a direction with no union employees. I said "great, I'll continue the work till they get here so I am sure I have less seniority". wouldn't you know I finished the work!
  10. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    OK, fine! What supervisors name you gonna put on the grievance? You have that? How long did they work? How many of them were there? Who was their manager? Who told them to send everybody home?

    You have all that and more info? You better. You grievance is not gonna fly if you don't. No, don't wait weeks to get this info because in our supplement too, there is a time limit of 5 days to file on a violation. This info and research can be done in as little as one day, even bringing your steward or other stewards or BAs into the picture. That is, if you're that serious about doing the work and getting paid for it.

    The reason I said to be specific and get all the information you can is this example:
    This just happened recently and I saw the grievance form myself, although I am not a steward. The f/t driver was outraged at an apparant violation by the company that affected him directly. He was told to file a grievance, which he promptly did. On the blank pages where it says to outline the violation, he merely wrote (and I quote), "Article XX" (the XX is mine, I forget which Art he was naming).

    OK, now YOU try to defend this at a hearing! Who? What? How much? Etc. THAT wasn't even turned in.

    Be specific but brief. Get your facts straight.

    And, oh, to the original thread starter: How about joining the union that helped get this language into a contract.

    Now, others, commence to flaming.
  11. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    It's always nice if the Grievant has all the details of the case already assembled; but if he doesn't, it's the job of the Steward, and if necessary, the Business Agent, to conduct an investigation and get the remaining details. They have the legal and contractual right to do so.

    They can interview people and request documents.
  12. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    If you don't know, ask their names. If they don't comply, tell them you want to speak to a steward. Let them tell him they won't identify themselves.
    Stick around and watch. You intend to get paid for the time. If you get hassled, request a steward from management. They're obligated to get you one.
    You write down the names. Then you count the names. Use your toes if necessary.
    Who cares? You don't have to know this to collect for their hours. You only have to have been refused the work.
  13. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    I heart JonFrum, Gandydancer and raceannouncer. If all newbies had their cajones and years of experience in them, UPS wouldn't even try this kind of stunt. You really can't blame UPS for trying; they will attempt to get away with the most they can until someone stops them.

    Listen and learn Newbies from the Yoda's and Obi Wans.
  14. RustinFord

    RustinFord New Member

    In the Seattle Hub The management decided to start staggering in new employees. Sending me home after I get 3 and 1/2 hours and keeping the new guys to do all the wrap up work. Hoping that the newer employees won't reach 5 hours. The problem is they brand newbies are getting more hours on the clock than I do, Every night, and in my work area.

    For example (a grievance I filed earlier this week)

    "On 3/17/09 I Jim Jimson started work at 10:45 PM was forced to clock out at 3:45 AM by Bill Billson (O/B Supervisor), with a total of 5 Hours 0 Minutes. I told Bill, “I would like to stay.” Bill replied, “There is nothing more for you to do.” A fellow hourly employee with less seniority than me, Bob Bobson was told to stay on the clock and do my Orange/Brown wrap up. He worked from 11:15 PM to 4:45 AM, A total of 5 hours and 30 minutes a difference of 30 minutes. Bob Bobson had 4 hours and 30 minutes on the clock when I was forced to leave. He should have been sent home. If I was able to stay on the clock I would have received 6 hours and 0 minutes."

    This is not cool at all. I have filed a grievance everyday this week so far and will continue until the stop. The union rep told me that they can not do this. But will keep trying until they have to pay out. They don't realize they are going to be paying 2 people to do the amount of work 1 person could do.
  15. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    If Jim Jimson were actually being sent home after 3:45 when Bob Bobson hadn't made his guarantee it would be a bit more complicated. But if both have made their guarantee it's open and shut. There's nothing in the contract that allows the employer to ignore the right of the more senior employee to choose whether he stays or leaves merely because he's on ot. Requiring the emplyer to use the higher wage employee when it would prefer to employ the cheaper is the most basic function of seniority.
  16. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member


    Re: your comment of....

    "Requiring the emplyer to use the higher wage employee when it would prefer to employ the cheaper is the most basic function of seniority."

    You lost me with that one. Not sure that's a function of seniority at all. I'll grant that seniority comes into play when positions of inequality come into play (all other circumstances being equal, then seniority would prevail), however, in the situation described above, I'd raise Cain with the sup. who worked a more senior employee on overtime before a less senior employ who had hours available. Granted, the less-senior employee ended-up with SOME overtime...however, that wasn't assigned (or, presumably, known to be needed) until a full HOUR after the more senior employee reached his 5 hour limit and told to clock-out. Think what you will, but there's no way in Hell a sup should be sanctioned to authorize O/T for one p/t employee (no matter what his/her seniority) when another is available (and qualified) to perform the work on straight-time.

    I'm sure there'll be comments about being available an hour later, etc...and I note that such comments would get into property/trespass issues, etc., which I doubt the union would want to address very closely, being that it would be a knife that cut both ways.

    Just opinion, of course, but the best I could see one filing on would be the OT the less senior employee would have made....but, if there's much filing of that sort going around, expect some pretty harsh "on the property" stipulations to pop-up in return.
  17. RustinFord

    RustinFord New Member

    On the property stipulations?
  18. RustinFord

    RustinFord New Member

    Also management keeps telling me that they have the right to keep any employee on straight time. Where are they getting this from? I've searched the contract looking for this wording that they keep saying. But I can't find it.


    Jim Jimson clocks on at 10:00pm
    Bob Bobson clocks on at 10:30pm
    Jim Jimson gets his 3 1/2 at 1:30
    Bob Bobson gets his 3 1/2 at 2:00
    Jim Jimson is told to leave at 3:00 total of 5 hours
    Bob Bobson is told to stay and clock out at 3:30 with 5 hours...

    So I am told that they keep Bob Bobson because they "have the right to keep any employee at straight pay." Even though Bob had his 3 1/2 before Jim Clocked out.
  19. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    If neither person is getting OT then it's honestly being a pig to think you can stay and change that around and get the OT. Especially if you're already on the early start/setup/pretrip or whatever the 1/2 hour accounts ..

    If "Bob" gets OT, that is a bit different.

    If there is any contract language I have never read it and would be interested to see it. But if there isn't any, then it would be foolish for UPS to pay you OT and send Bob home after 4 1/2
  20. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member


    Yeah, as in "get your ass off of it [the property] as soon as you've punched-out". And "you're not allowed on it until 90 seconds (or whatever) before your scheduled start time"...and/or who knows what variations of the above. Just doesn't seem like a nest of hornets that hourlies - if they thought things thru - would want to mess with.