No more soup for you!! I mean no more bench grinders for you!!

klein

Für Meno :)
There seems to be much support for NOT getting rid of equipment that has the potential to cause injury. A bench grinder is NOT an essential tool in the UPS world and the job can be done by utilizing safer methods and tools. I agree that a grinder can be used safely if the operator takes the proper precautions. The sentiment of the board is KEEP THE GRINDER, HOLD THE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE for injuries and fines.
Why is it that many of the board regulars support the COMPLETE OPPOSITE when it comes to vehicles or anything else people don't like? If it were announced that all older vehicles are being eliminated due to safety concerns, there would undoubtedly be overwhelming support

Does this make sense?

Only thing you forgot, you would REPLACE the vehicles !!!!
Unless you wanna attempt drivers walking with a huge backpack on their backs !
 

PE Pro

Well-Known Member
This had me rolling today. Today, I was working on a belt job when my partner on the job went to lunch. I did all I could do by myself and he wasn't back yet so I spent a few minutes looking for a wrench that was misplaced a week or so ago during a hectic job. I spent 15 minutes back tracking to where I thought it might be and then I checked with the auto shop to see if any hand tools were turned in. Up until yesterday I would not have spent this time looking because until yesterday the PE management would just replace it. It seemed to make good business sense not to spend a lot more money looking for something than just replacing it. The wrench cost about $ 4.50. I posted about this in another thread yesterday. This is the funny part. I was filling out my timecard accounting for this "looking for tool" time when an auto mechanic passed by where I was, as he passed he held up a punch with a flared out end and said he was going over to dress up his punch on th PE bench grinder so he could do his job. He had to walk about 200 yards from the auto shop just so he could dress a tool. He used to have to walk about 6'. Let's face it you brown bleeding kissups. You know who you are. Regarding bench grinders the auto shop management don't care if we are "gigged" on a keter audit as long as the auto shop isn't the one gigged. They are probably happy if PE is gigged. They also don't care if the auto mechanics use these, oh so. unsafe tools. Bench grinders are a basic tool, a staple tool in every respectable workshop at home and in industry. Only shameless brown butt kissers would defend this! :lips:
 

pemanager

Well-Known Member
What's soup got to do with a bench grinder anyway?

It's absolutely hilarious to see all the opposition to removing a known safety hazard. Google "OSHA Grinder" to see for yourself.



:happy2:

There are a number of potential equipment safety hazards at any workplace if the equipment is not maintained correctly. Vehicles, conveyors, irreg carts, etc. If we removed everything that was a potential safety hazard rather then adequately maintaining it none of us would have a job. I can't speak to the automotive side but from a PE perspective I would say a bench grinder is an necessary, not nice to have, piece of equipment.

JMHO, but it is not that hard to put processes in place to ensure that the bench grinder meets the guarding requirements that Ketter / OSHA look for. If you can't hold someone accountable for following a process as simple as a 30 second pre / post trip of the equipment what can you hold them accountable for?
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
OK, so if I identify a mechanic that cannot follow the basic rules of maintaining shop equipment and after many times of either training or discipline, what should I do? Dare I say fire him? In the meanwhile. Yes I will take away the bench grinder-( I agree, if you mean "taken away" -(red tagged out)- and not "thrown away".) if he cannot show me that he is willing to maintain it, why should he have it. I do not think I would sleep well if that were the case. I do not have this issue with any of my assigned mechanics. The ones that can follow the simple rules, have the grinders, the ones that repeatedly get caught not maintaining the grinders get them removed. If I know, they know how to maintain it and they chose not to do it, they can do without it. It is that simple. How is that flawed?
The flaw is in the leadership and the proper teaching.
How can they do what they need to do without the proper tools to do it?
The analogies abound in this thread.
I will go out on a limb and say ;
" The most abused and misused piece of equipment causing mental and bodily harm within UPS is the computer."
Classic GIGO.
IMHO,
UPS wants growth, but has fallen into the trap of trying to protect and keep what it had.
 

JustTired

free at last.......
To comply with audit requirements, and therefore being allowed to retain your grinder, do the following......

1. Immediately after using the grinder, check the spacing between the wheel and workrest .
2. If out of spec, immediately make the required adjustment.
3. Pay no attention to the sup behind you telling you to hurry and get the job you're working on done.
4. Explain the possibility of an audit between the time of use and completing said job.
5. If grinder has already been removed from shop....find a local company that does mobile tool sharpening and call them when use of a grinder is needed.
6. Have them bill UPS for work performed.


I'm not making light of the need to properly maintain tools and equipment. I'm having a hard time picturing someone in a tie and a Palm Pilot with his measuring stick out checking for a 1/32 inch discrepancy when there are vehicles going on road with huge chunks of rubber out of the tires, oil dripping constantly from motors...and the list goes on and on.
 

FracusBrown

Ponies and Planes
There are a number of potential equipment safety hazards at any workplace if the equipment is not maintained correctly. Vehicles, conveyors, irreg carts, etc. If we removed everything that was a potential safety hazard rather then adequately maintaining it none of us would have a job. I can't speak to the automotive side but from a PE perspective I would say a bench grinder is an necessary, not nice to have, piece of equipment.

JMHO, but it is not that hard to put processes in place to ensure that the bench grinder meets the guarding requirements that Ketter / OSHA look for. If you can't hold someone accountable for following a process as simple as a 30 second pre / post trip of the equipment what can you hold them accountable for?

Pretrip and post trip of equipment is virtually non-existent. By using this analogy you are saying that every business manager in the system has no ability to hold their people accountable for anything. The percentage of drivers that perform these activities is probably less then 10%. In most locations the forklift pretrip is constantly in violation of the pretrip requirements, eyewash stations are dirty, egress is blocked, guards are out of place, and the infamous grinder is not in compliance.

When a Keter audit is announced every contractor known to PE assembles for a 4 hour fix the guards, adjust the grinders, clean the eye wash, audit the chemical, etc party. If it weren't for this "emergency" get together, the results of the keter audit would be very ugly.

At any given time I can walk into just about any building and witness a number of DOT, OSHA, FAA and UPS policy violations carried out in plain sight.

Holding a single PE mechanic accountable to keep one access restricted grinder in compliance is a simple task. Put the grinder in the middle of a hub where its used by everyone from outside contractors to carwashers trying to fix a wooden broom handle and the task becomes nearly impossible.

It's a rare occasion when an internal audit does not identify a grinder, an eyewash, a forklift or a guard in violation.

Test your skills and ability. Next time Keter shows up in one of your buildings, ignore the notice. Don't fix anything in the 4 hour period before the audit and then let us know how the review goes.

JTHF
 

pemanager

Well-Known Member
Pretrip and post trip of equipment is virtually non-existent.By using this analogy you are saying that every business manager in the system has no ability to hold their people accountable for anything. The percentage of drivers that perform these activities is probably less then 10%. In most locations the forklift pretrip is constantly in violation of the pretrip requir

When a Keter audit is announced every contractor known to PE assembles for a 4 hour fix the guards, adjust the grinders, clean the eye wash, audit the chemical, etc party. If it weren't for this "emergency" get together, the results of the keter audit would be very ugly.

At any given time I can walk into just about any building and witness a number of DOT, OSHA, FAA and UPS policy violations carried out in plain sight.

Holding a single PE mechanic accountable to keep one access restricted grinder in compliance is a simple task. Put the grinder in the middle of a hub where its used by everyone from outside contractors to carwashers trying to fix a wooden broom handle and the task becomes nearly impossible.

It's a rare occasion when an internal audit does not identify a grinder, an eyewash, a forklift or a guard in violation.

Test your skills and ability. Next time Keter shows up in one of your buildings, ignore the notice. Don't fix anything in the 4 hour period before the audit and then let us know how the review goes.

JTHF



You paint an ugly picture but if we were to follow the logic of the opening thread you should be saying that we eliminate all of our facilities and equipment.
For your specific points, grinders should be located in pe and automotive, not in the middle of the hub and they should only be used by mechanics.
I agree we should not be scrambling to fix deficiencies before an audit and don't support doing so - not all pe teams do this.
Lastly, if your neck of the woods is so bad with pre / post trip, etc it will never get better if we throw up our hands and so oh well there's nothing we can do. It can be changed - I have seen it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tieguy

Banned
To comply with audit requirements, and therefore being allowed to retain your grinder, do the following......

1. Immediately after using the grinder, check the spacing between the wheel and workrest .
2. If out of spec, immediately make the required adjustment.
3. Pay no attention to the sup behind you telling you to hurry and get the job you're working on done.
4. Explain the possibility of an audit between the time of use and completing said job.
5. If grinder has already been removed from shop....find a local company that does mobile tool sharpening and call them when use of a grinder is needed.
6. Have them bill UPS for work performed.


I'm not making light of the need to properly maintain tools and equipment. I'm having a hard time picturing someone in a tie and a Palm Pilot with his measuring stick out checking for a 1/32 inch discrepancy when there are vehicles going on road with huge chunks of rubber out of the tires, oil dripping constantly from motors...and the list goes on and on.

You make it sound like pe mechanics actually move with a purpose. I've yet to see one that moved any faster then one of the zombies on dawn of the dead.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
You make it sound like pe mechanics actually move with a purpose. I've yet to see one that moved any faster then one of the zombies on dawn of the dead.

land-of-the-dead-zombie-cropped.jpg



PE guy responding to broken grate.




j/k!!
 

PE Pro

Well-Known Member
land-of-the-dead-zombie-cropped.jpg



PE guy responding to broken grate.




j/k!!
The above PE guy calls his boss on the telephone:
PE Guy: I'm calling to let you know I have been injured.
PE Guys Boss: How bad is it? Do you want to report it?
Thud! Pe Guy hits the floor from a loss of blood.
:death:
 

tieguy

Banned
The above PE guy calls his boss on the telephone:
PE Guy: I'm calling to let you know I have been injured.
PE Guys Boss: How bad is it? Do you want to report it?
Thud! Pe Guy hits the floor from a loss of blood.
:death:

what you've been trained on how to use a telephone? yet you waited five months to find out why shepard hooks were not being ordered. How can that be?
 

PE Pro

Well-Known Member
what you've been trained on how to use a telephone? yet you waited five months to find out why shepard hooks were not being ordered. How can that be?
I did not wait nor do I care if a sheperd hook is ever ordered again. I am a maintenance man! I don't need sheperd hooks. You got that? I simply posted a situation because I wanted to. You can blow your brown loving smoke up my rear as much as you want. But none of that will change the utter incompentence displayed by my supervisor in handling this situation.:yawn:
 

tieguy

Banned
I did not wait nor do I care if a sheperd hook is ever ordered again. I am a maintenance man! I don't need sheperd hooks. You got that? I simply posted a situation because I wanted to. You can blow your brown loving smoke up my rear as much as you want. But none of that will change the utter incompentence displayed by my supervisor in handling this situation.:yawn:

there you go pe pro is the reason operations waited five months to get shephard hooks. So you had a safety request from a safety committee and you did not follow through on it. Yet you think you should be critical of ups for being every bit as indifferent as you are. I rest my case.
 

FracusBrown

Ponies and Planes
You paint an ugly picture but if we were to follow the logic of the opening thread you should be saying that we eliminate all of our facilities and equipment.
For your specific points, grinders should be located in pe and automotive, not in the middle of the hub and they should only be used by mechanics.
I agree we should not be scrambling to fix deficiencies before an audit and don't support doing so - not all pe teams do this.
Lastly, if your neck of the woods is so bad with pre / post trip, etc it will never get better if we throw up our hands and so oh well there's nothing we can do. It can be changed - I have seen it.

Just being honest.

I'm not suggesting it's a good idea to get rid of all equipment. There is some equipment that's not a necessity. If it's not a necessity and it poses a substantial safety and fine risk it may not be worth having. There's no reason multiply the risk by having more than needed.

The shops are often in the main building and not physically separated.

The issues I mentioned are not isolated to my neck of the woods. The same issues are identified regularly on the various audits all over the place.

I agree that it can all be changed if enough time, effort and resources are dedicated to the issues, but were going in the opposite direction as a company. Do more with less is the current wave.
 

PE Pro

Well-Known Member
there you go pe pro is the reason operations waited five months to get shephard hooks. So you had a safety request from a safety committee and you did not follow through on it. Yet you think you should be critical of ups for being every bit as indifferent as you are. I rest my case.
Ok so let me get this right. You are actually justifying management incompetence by comparing it to my indifference to this incompetence. Give me a break! Can't you read? I am a UPS maintenance mechanic. Only an incompetent management person or former management person would set the bar so low. Everyone, you should sell your stock now if the management are looking to our indifference as the standard they set to do their job. What a joke!:crazy2:
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
............ hide that grinder ................

Finally, an appropriate solution to the grinder problem. EVERYONE knows when there's going to be an audit. Simply hide all the bench grinders before the audit! They can't very well gig you on it if they don't know you have one.
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
I'll be the devil's advocate here Over-
Does that mean UPS should hide all drivers, package cars, preload, and niteside?

After all, if they can't be seen, they must not exist.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I'll be the devil's advocate here Over-
Does that mean UPS should hide all drivers, package cars, preload, and niteside?

After all, if they can't be seen, they must not exist.
No, what being said is the status quo at UPS. Treat the symptoms rather than cure the problem.
 
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