no rights whatsoever

bear123

Well-Known Member
It is imperative that one of the things we need to get in the contract is language for Art. 22 people. Becasue there isn't language the company can do what ever they want and they know it.
 

brown67

Well-Known Member
cashmen said:
how is not taking a lunch falsifying? they take it out anyway! I never put my lunch in, cause the comp takes it out everyday, unless you ask them not to...which will never happen
I get an hour of OT a week!
No, your stop count doesnt change cause of numbers....thats a myth! at least taht how its with me. I dont complain, I just do the work and it hasnt change, hardly!
most of the time, I do take a lunch, I just don take the whole hour....to damn long, its usually 20 to 30 minutes i take!

I'm in Colorado and we are required to take a full hour of lunch between our 3rd and 5th hour of work day. Its in our supplement (central states)to the national contract too. We must enter the break in everyday. We've been told that UPS has been sued over this issue, so we must take break unless we get permission from a supervisors. If you don't enter your break your supervisors will remind you the next day not to forget to do it.
 

cashmen

Active Member
Well, then if you are required, then you are required...we in UT are not required and i drove 8 yrs in az and it was not required there, either! Ive never been remeinded by a SUP or manger or told not to enter my lunch or take a lunch.....and this is in the 13 yrs i have driven!
I really think you should check the contract about "requiring to take a lunch" thats the 1st ive heard of it!
BTW: Where in CO? I grew up in CO and all my family live in Greeley/ Loveland area, now!
 

wily_old_vet

Well-Known Member
I worked in Maryland and it was state law that a lunch be deducted. Skipping lunch was the drivers discretion but there was no code 05 as in some areas.
 
Its me again and I am not trying to sound like a whiner but my union does not have a description of my job or my bid and what it entitles....If I am bottom on the seniority list which is what I am told ...which our preload is different than any body because we actually have bid jobs on preload..I can't bid a job because then I would loose my article 22 .3 bid job so I unload or whatever..my question is there telling me if someone gets laid off than that is me because I do not have a bid job on preload..I do not understand how after 25 years at a company I can be laid off before someone there 6 months. does seniority count for anything....Say I want an option day does my seniority count for anything...I guess I just want to know where I can find out the writing on Article 22.3 because I have been in this bid since 2000 and they change it all the time...Question...when they gave the disqualified driver the article 22.3 job without putting it up for bid 6 months ago...she has more company seniority than me by a year but I have more article 22.3 seniority than her by 6 years...when I ask about it they said she still has more seniority no matter what on anything....I really just want to find where are the rules...The union and the company change them completely on me at least once a year for one extreme to another...I just want the bottom line.. I am glad to have the job I am just tired of being the guinea pig...Does anybody know.. because I know my union doesn't know...they make special agreements with selective few saying they only have to split and then they give them a letter..which I feel like jeopardizes seniority for other people with more years but they do it...After 25 years nothing changes I guess the it is like the squeaky wheel gets the grease and i am not very squeaky....
 

teamsterdan

Well-Known Member
like I mentioned earlier I have/ do deal with this situation now....understand unless we are in the same location (proably not) things may vary slightly, (past practice) but first and foremost YOU must to the best of your ability read and understand the master agrmt..... on pg. 62 & 63 article 22 sec. 4 it describes what are known as "preferred jobs" pre-loader, clerical, sorter, ETC. and the process for obtaining those positions....as a 22.3 employee we cannot select our work on the pre-load period, this has been explained by my local union rep. to me when I won the bid, (i had to ask) and was also informed that the provisions in article 37 is where you will find the language protecting us from harassment, along with the other language regarding being treated with "dignity and respect" botton line on the pre-load we are to "work as directed" my advice here is to do the job you really "want" extremely well making yourself an asset.....As far as lay-off's go you probably don't need to worry abt. that they go by senority within job classification, part/full time are different classes.....have you been laid off??? as far as option days go I have never had a issue... remember for both vac. and days off WE as 22.3 employees ARE in a class SEPERATE from drivers as well as part-timers....and your center SHOULD have a senority list posted and you'll see all the drivers on one list (class) part-timers, and us all on SEPERATE lists.... as far as your senority beef with the other employee I do believe company senority wins out, BTW as 22.3 employees WE ARE THE GUIENA PIGS.... we're the 1st employees to have these types of jobs and in the 6yrs. I've been doing it I've had to fight tooth and nail for everything...if you ALLOW them to they will take advantage....and the union only KNOWS the issues if YOU bring them to them formally or informally....it is your responsibility to assert your rights in the contract, but first you must read it (grasshopper)...................
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
jeannirenee said:
I am an employee of ups for almost 26 years..in 2000 I bid a combo job which reads preload/clerk/dmp. I was loading a truck when I first started but I was told by the union I could not do this I was worked as assigned ..so for the last 4 years that is what I've been doing..Two weeks ago pas came in effect and my center manager tells me today that I am at the bottom of the totem pole..I have no rights whatsoever even though I have seniority on every person on preload..The union makes special deals with the company and employees even when it jeopardizes seniorty. In fact they put in an article22.3 jop or should I say gave it to someone without even putting it up for bid.. When the vacation planner came out this person had seniority over me and I asked when they bid it and they said they did't and I ask if she lost any pay and they said no. She now has seniority over me because she has been at ups longer..but my seniority does not count at all on preload..and why all of a sudden now does everything change when I have been working as assigned for the last 4 years..my clerk work is all still there but they moved the computer...I do not even know where to go from here because at our center they make up the rules as they go along and they contradict each other and that is the union and the company..one side is as bad as the other..I guess I am not the squeaky wheel...HELP I am to old to unload for 5 hours and when I told my center manager I would do my best but I could not keep up with the 18 year old farmers he replied..why not? you will have too....
replace the teamsters with a union that will represent seniority and represent the people regardless of who they are, from the teamster steward all the way up the chain it is picked who they represent, join the APWA today and put an end to misrepresentation.
 
Okay...Heres the deal...our preload is different than most because we have preload bid positions...so I know I cannot bid a position because my preload position is article 22.3 and I am fine with that...heres my question...if all postions are bid and 3 people are off can I use my seniority over the new hires that do not have a bid position...everyone tells me no but does seniority count for anything....maybe the union ought to calculate what I have paid in for the last 26 years verses a new hire...I guess I do not get it but I am a little put out with the union right now...I was not thrilled with the letter we recieved that they changed all our retirement with out any vote (WHICH BELIEVE ME THE UNION WOULD HAVE DIED IF THE COMPANY WOULD OF PULLED SOMETHING LIKE THIS) We had people who had the time in and could of retired and decided to stick it out one more year and then got the letter and now they can't retire...I could not of retired because of I did not have my 25 in at the time the contract was up but now I do and I will have to work 17 more years making me work a total of 43 years at ups...like I will live to tell about that....well I just feel sorry for the people that could of retired and didn't and now they can not because the union changed everything....I doubt we will ever have anything not bad mouthing the union but it doesn't look too good...I think I would feel better if the company had control of our pension...noticed they have not changed any of the rules just the union did....maybe it is just out local but they make all the special deals and write letters saying this person only has to split or this person needs grandfathered and award her 1.oo per hour skilled even though she never tested...even if it jeopardizes someones seniority they make a deal without any one knowing.....its a circus.....I have a question in our center and local there are only 2 article 22.3 how does seniority work...I have more article 22.3 seniority but she has more company seniority.. how does that work on vacations...bumping and ect...just wondering because the other article 22.3 is giving me so much grief...clocks in on my ss number and goes to the union if I work any longer...ect..now she says she can bump me she just bad mouths me all the time ...my next step is harrassment because I have gone to supervisors and they are all aware of it and suggest me to do it...I guess I have done enough damage...happy fourth of july everyone....
 

shock3rd

Member
Maybe I should be rethinking this 22.3 job I just took. I've been a parttimer for 11 yrs on the preload & I just took a combo job and My 30 days qualifing are up Saturday, allready my pay has been all screwed up & my bid time that I bid for this has been changed. My job is a tues- Sat Air driver & loader / unloader. I actually made more money being a parttime air driver $18.60 than I do now $14.50, All the years I worked as a saturday air driver parttime didn't mean crap , the only time help me out was being a temp driver for 6months once. I feel I have been ripped off for my air pay , Whats anyone else thinK????
 
O

Omegaman

Guest
Cashmen, you are a disgrace to all of us. You state that you were a steward and you admit to skipping your lunch? You have benefited every honest working Teamster near you by no longer involving yourself as a steward. Many of us do the complete and total job to keep UPS at bay by demonstrating a more realistic performance standard. Anyone can run and take shortcuts all day to get done early, few can do the total job as UPS describes it. Ask yourself who is smarter, the worker who runs all day and makes less money while increasing the likelihood of injury and accidents or the worker who safely paces himself and follows all of UPS' methods? Which one will have any longevity at UPS?
 

brownieboy

Well-Known Member
I am also a 22.3. I originally bid an Air shuttle/Porter job. Relief Drivers kept turning down driving to bump my shuttle. The shuttle went away after 29 days. I was pretty much forced to take a preload/porter job. Well, I get to porter about 2 months a year. The rest of the time I am forced to double shift.(need the $) 4am-9am 5pm-8pm. I got screwed on my seniority date(bumped back 2 months from when I transferred jobs.) So a driver retires 4 DAYS before my year is up. I cant take the relief driver bid, and Im stuck in this cruddy job for awhile now.
Im forced to drive air(ground "shuttle" when they need it) for my 14.50 an hour, when I got 17.80 before . Im a VERY bitter person toward these 22.3 jobs. Ill make less money this year as a 22.3, than I did as a part timer/air driver. The only good thing I see is I will have full time seniority over the guy who got relief driver, when i take the next reief driver, unless they rip me on that somehow too.
Ohh, forgot to mention when i went to full time they paid me for my vacations at full time hrs and wage. Six months later they made me pay it back in afordable weekly payments of 3/4 of my check.:thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :confused:1
 

tieguy

Banned
The 22.3 job was created out of the 97 strike settlement. I personally think it was rushed along as both parties were "encouraged" by the labor department to get this strike settled quickly. Much of the language was vague and worked out later. The intent is to create full time jobs by combining two part time jobs. As such you lose the rights to many of the skilled jobs you would have the rights to as a part timer only. At the same time it protects full time skilled jobs that pay a lot more. The combo job pays more then most part time jobs but less then full time inside jobs. A true compromise. By setting it up this way your union got combo jobs paying more then the part time jobs that were combined but at the same time the company can't supplant higher paid full time jobs with these lower paying ones. So you have a job that is really supposed to be a stepping stone to the higher paying jobs. You're part time and you bid into a combo job generally sooner then you would have otherwise gotten into a full time inside or driving job. Some drivers bid into the job and take the pay cut to get a job that is less demanding then the delivery job. But overall I have seen it work out to be a no frills full time job that gets you full time much sooner then you would have gotten otherwise. My opinion for what its worth.
 

cashmen

Active Member
hey omegaman....i hear DHL is hiring, maybe they could use your attitude!
BTW: 11 yrs safe driving in 11 yrs driving!!!!!!!!! and never been injured
 
Last edited:
Well since I took the article 22.3 job it really has been a mess..does anyone know if there is any writing on it..I have been doing it for 6 years now and they just told me its half hard labor and then half regular...which is fine but was there a recent vote or something....And I have a question how does seniority work with the article 22.3 jobs does it go seniority with that classification...meaning if I had the article 22.3 job for 6 years and now someone with more company seniority has an article 22.3 awarded to them just this year..would I have seniority on her in the 22.3 classification..I am confused....they change the rules all the time in my center...:thumbup1: looking at the good of the job it is nice being paid for a 40 hour week when you are on vacation...and 8 hours holiday...I used to hate to get my part time vacation checks because it was always less than my regular because of all the overtime I always worked...bye
 
A

Anonymous Brown Clown

Guest
Don't know if you have classification seniority where you are or not. If not, then you go by the full-time seniority date. But if you have classification seniority, you go by the date of entering the job classification. For example, a package car driver for 15 years goes into feeders, in classification seniority he would get a feeder seniority date.
 

yeldarb

Well-Known Member
As far as the lunch is concerned, I will take my full 1.25 lunch/break every day. My body feels it if I dont. Ones numbers will be good on paper, as long as they maintain a consistent work plan throughout the day, And if your numbers are not good, Have management ride with you, and show you what you need to improve on. If your doing good, they SHOULD see your time study is what needs the improvement, not your methods. I WILL NOT run. I just keep moving throughout the day, and dont waste time gabbing with everyone. My average plan day, is usually within 30 minutes of scratch either way. A small bonus about once a week, and 30 minutes over on a day where it just comes off bad.
It only takes one misstep in your hurrying that can put you on the IR with something you might not overcome, and the same with accidents .
It doesnt matter what your history has been. If you run everyday, and hurry just to get home, It will happen.
 

teamsterdan

Well-Known Member
well I can honestly see why you are having so many problems @ work, YOU seem to take little interest in "help" when the answer does not seem to be to your liking......first things first questions pre-taining to bid jobs are to be asked and answered to your satisfaction PRIOR to accepting the job...."finding out" later means you didn't ask sooner......for someone w/ as much senority as yourself you should know by now how UPS operates, like it or not that's how they do bidness... you post this directly "does anyone know if there is any writing on it" In my post dated 06-30-2006 04:55 PM.......I answer this directly....pg. 62 & 63 article 22 sec. 4...HAVE YOU READ IT YET??????? in that same post I aslo explain how senority works within seperate JOB CLASSIFICATIONS......sorry abt. the CAPS but you like many of my co-workers seem to think UPS and the TEAMSTERS should both operate to the whims of their individual employees/members....I doubt this is going to happen anytime soon....Why after yrs. of misery do you stay???? I'm betting there is nothing better out there that pays as much w/out the responsibiilites.....top rate is going to be $21.50.....that traslates to roughly 45k a yr.......in my part of the world that is more than entry level wages for both university jobs and state workers, both requiring bachelors degree's (which is comprable, including benefits) the only skills required is the ability to deal w/ a buch of folks I may or may not agree with....who's skills @ interpersonal relations are lacking @ best... but for those 8 hrs, I will do what they ask of me to the best of my ablity within the bounds of the agreed upon master contract. As long as it does not endanger the safety of myself or others around me, that is not illegal, immoral or jepordize the reputations of either the company or the union.... need I say more ........
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
jeannirenee said:
Okay...Heres the deal...our preload is different than most because we have preload bid positions...so I know I cannot bid a position because my preload position is article 22.3 and I am fine with that...heres my question...if all postions are bid and 3 people are off can I use my seniority over the new hires that do not have a bid position...everyone tells me no but does seniority count for anything....maybe the union ought to calculate what I have paid in for the last 26 years verses a new hire...I guess I do not get it but I am a little put out with the union right now...I was not thrilled with the letter we recieved that they changed all our retirement with out any vote (WHICH BELIEVE ME THE UNION WOULD HAVE DIED IF THE COMPANY WOULD OF PULLED SOMETHING LIKE THIS) We had people who had the time in and could of retired and decided to stick it out one more year and then got the letter and now they can't retire...I could not of retired because of I did not have my 25 in at the time the contract was up but now I do and I will have to work 17 more years making me work a total of 43 years at ups...like I will live to tell about that....well I just feel sorry for the people that could of retired and didn't and now they can not because the union changed everything....I doubt we will ever have anything not bad mouthing the union but it doesn't look too good...I think I would feel better if the company had control of our pension...noticed they have not changed any of the rules just the union did....maybe it is just out local but they make all the special deals and write letters saying this person only has to split or this person needs grandfathered and award her 1.oo per hour skilled even though she never tested...even if it jeopardizes someones seniority they make a deal without any one knowing.....its a circus.....I have a question in our center and local there are only 2 article 22.3 how does seniority work...I have more article 22.3 seniority but she has more company seniority.. how does that work on vacations...bumping and ect...just wondering because the other article 22.3 is giving me so much grief...clocks in on my ss number and goes to the union if I work any longer...ect..now she says she can bump me she just bad mouths me all the time ...my next step is harrassment because I have gone to supervisors and they are all aware of it and suggest me to do it...I guess I have done enough damage...happy fourth of july everyone....
It's time to get a union that will answer your questions to the rules as they apply.Currently there is no application so the company and union can play as they want. Get a union that puts seniority where it should be, get a union that will define the 22.3 jobs, no definitions and doing it different all across the country only adds to the confusion. No deffinitions by the company let's them do as they please. Everyone says they are tired of the teamsters and want a change, we have the means and chance now to change all this.The APWA will get your jobs classified and defined. Rules of seniority will apply. Join and vote APWA talk about it at your center contact www.parcelworkers.com , let them know of your interest and set a meeting time.
 
Top