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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 1044516" data-attributes="member: 24302"><p>And again, if there were a guest worker program, the employers would be responsible for providing adequate and safe housing, subject to fines and criminal charges if they don't. A guest worker program is absolutely ethical. The workers would no longer have to risk their lives sneaking into the country, they'd be provided transportation, and be eligible for Social Security provided they worked as many quarters as a citizen has to to qualify. Again, the employers would have to prove that they can't find enough workers through the usual channels, classifieds, temp agencies, etc. Of course American citizens should have first chance at any job but there are many Americans just won't do. Ever been in a slaughterhouse? Ever been on a feedlot with 37,000 head of cattle after a good rain? It sounds to me like you don't want a path for getting a job for illegals(who wouldn't be illegal under a guest worker program). And of course we need a path to citizenship for those already here. But the current situation with a porous border where people die and are at the mercy of their employers is unethical and unacceptable. And before people start throwing the hate word around they should take a look in the mirror.</p><p></p><p>One more point. You say corporate America wants neither due primarily to less profit. People are here complaining about their pay and benefits but it would mean much less profit and probably no profit at all if some here got their way. You can't on the one hand rail against the system and then turn around and say, well that group can't have that because it'll mean less profit for corporate America. The Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863 and yet the wealthy are finding ways to exploit very large groups for their benefit. Anyone who says we get pay and benefits needs to think about slaves getting food, clothing, and shelter from their masters. If labor is stripped of all the gains made in the last 100 years so that profits can be bigger, and pay is only adequate for food, clothing and shelter then we are getting dangerously close to justifying forced labor. We may have the right to quit but someday soon we may not or we will starve if we do. Hardly the egalitarian society we are supposed to be and I would think a black man would be especially sensitive to this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 1044516, member: 24302"] And again, if there were a guest worker program, the employers would be responsible for providing adequate and safe housing, subject to fines and criminal charges if they don't. A guest worker program is absolutely ethical. The workers would no longer have to risk their lives sneaking into the country, they'd be provided transportation, and be eligible for Social Security provided they worked as many quarters as a citizen has to to qualify. Again, the employers would have to prove that they can't find enough workers through the usual channels, classifieds, temp agencies, etc. Of course American citizens should have first chance at any job but there are many Americans just won't do. Ever been in a slaughterhouse? Ever been on a feedlot with 37,000 head of cattle after a good rain? It sounds to me like you don't want a path for getting a job for illegals(who wouldn't be illegal under a guest worker program). And of course we need a path to citizenship for those already here. But the current situation with a porous border where people die and are at the mercy of their employers is unethical and unacceptable. And before people start throwing the hate word around they should take a look in the mirror. One more point. You say corporate America wants neither due primarily to less profit. People are here complaining about their pay and benefits but it would mean much less profit and probably no profit at all if some here got their way. You can't on the one hand rail against the system and then turn around and say, well that group can't have that because it'll mean less profit for corporate America. The Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863 and yet the wealthy are finding ways to exploit very large groups for their benefit. Anyone who says we get pay and benefits needs to think about slaves getting food, clothing, and shelter from their masters. If labor is stripped of all the gains made in the last 100 years so that profits can be bigger, and pay is only adequate for food, clothing and shelter then we are getting dangerously close to justifying forced labor. We may have the right to quit but someday soon we may not or we will starve if we do. Hardly the egalitarian society we are supposed to be and I would think a black man would be especially sensitive to this. [/QUOTE]
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