Goldilocks mentioned this in other thread. Due to the costs involved many companies may drop health insurance for employees, opting instead to pay a penalty per employee. Cheaper for them. I noticed in the from the chairman that they will be looking at it's impact in a couple of years. If it's dropped you'll be required by law to either pay a penalty or carry an acceptable level of insurance. Problem for me is in order to comply with regs as a diabetic, etc I have to be under doctor's care. In order to keep my job if the company drops healthcare as a benefit I'll have to get health insurance which will surely cost me more than if the company offered a plan. Just as my hours are being cut. Hopefully the company won't drop coverage but in the pursuit of profit they very well might and could legally do it. Even if you don't have medical issues you'd still want to have some kind of coverage but can you afford it? You'll have to shell out money in a penalty if you don't so either way you'll spend money, but keeping your family insured will cost you alot more if the company drops coverage. Scream all you want, but it's a very likely scenario that most corporations will drop coverage and just pay the penalty.
Obamacare
- Thread starter vantexan
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Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
I noticed that too when I read the recent notice from our Chairman. Read between the lines, I think it may be coming.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
At least Obamacare will make companies that do eliminate healthcare have to pay a penalty.
Right now they can drop it without any punishment.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Also, you will qualify for a subsidy if you make under 400% of the poverty line, for a single person, that is being able to make up to $45,000 a year.
Couple that with Obamacares's pre-existing conditions clause (your diabetes) and I would say its a win win for you..
Couple that with Obamacares's pre-existing conditions clause (your diabetes) and I would say its a win win for you..
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
Most companies would rather pay the penalty. Its cheaper. And you will see a lot of them do this. I pray that Fedex will not drop our insurance, but I do see the writing on the wall.
That is looking at the worst case, sure. It's like when I looked into solar, the analysis on the savings had Gas and Electric sky-rocketing to places I don't believe will happen to make solar look better. Why do I not agree? Because I don't see the American worker making that much more income to be able to pay for that spike. Do you see $1300 a month gas/electric, less a energy crisis?. They are only going to be able to charge what the masses can afford. It's not like they won't say to me whatever they need to for the sale, that's timeless.
So I take that scenario into your thinking. Ok lets say employers all across the land simply drop health care and don't give us any raise to buy our own. And then a family plan costs $1000 a month or much more. Well that isn't going to work for most anyone. So I don't live in that worst case because in all reality it becomes an impossible case. If it's as messed up as you think it could be, it will be adjusted, it would have to be adjusted and that is part of the gov't job. Sort of like a bail-out, if they are put in a corner they will have to react.
I know many see it the way you mention, some hopes it happens because their politics are that strong. I don't simply see it because it's a doomsday scenario that would be adjusted before doomsday happens. And if it were to happen and not be adjusted, the Democrat party could just go and fold, they'd be out of office so fast and then the Repubs with that way. So why not let them hand themselves?
To note I have heard several small business owners state they can now afford health care that they wanted to offer all along but couldn't with the old rules. So you are going to have both sides wrangling over it. I'm going to continue to live with this thinking for the time being:
1. Health care was a mess for decades,universally understood. It only now has been considered good again because one of the parties actually made a move to change something and the other party and it's constituents feel threatened by it. (Human nature)
2. The side that made the change has stated if it needs adjusting, if things didn't work as they planned, they will make changes. (That's how it all is supposed to work)
3. The side that didn't make it, doesn't want this to work, because that would show the other side made something historical that worked. (Threatens their votes, this is what gridlock is all about)
4. You would think big companies would be for this new medical plan then... they would all be able to get out at providing health care. You'd think they'd be whistling Dixie right now if they felt that your view is the probable ending to these new medical rules. Best thing evah!
So I take that scenario into your thinking. Ok lets say employers all across the land simply drop health care and don't give us any raise to buy our own. And then a family plan costs $1000 a month or much more. Well that isn't going to work for most anyone. So I don't live in that worst case because in all reality it becomes an impossible case. If it's as messed up as you think it could be, it will be adjusted, it would have to be adjusted and that is part of the gov't job. Sort of like a bail-out, if they are put in a corner they will have to react.
I know many see it the way you mention, some hopes it happens because their politics are that strong. I don't simply see it because it's a doomsday scenario that would be adjusted before doomsday happens. And if it were to happen and not be adjusted, the Democrat party could just go and fold, they'd be out of office so fast and then the Repubs with that way. So why not let them hand themselves?
To note I have heard several small business owners state they can now afford health care that they wanted to offer all along but couldn't with the old rules. So you are going to have both sides wrangling over it. I'm going to continue to live with this thinking for the time being:
1. Health care was a mess for decades,universally understood. It only now has been considered good again because one of the parties actually made a move to change something and the other party and it's constituents feel threatened by it. (Human nature)
2. The side that made the change has stated if it needs adjusting, if things didn't work as they planned, they will make changes. (That's how it all is supposed to work)
3. The side that didn't make it, doesn't want this to work, because that would show the other side made something historical that worked. (Threatens their votes, this is what gridlock is all about)
4. You would think big companies would be for this new medical plan then... they would all be able to get out at providing health care. You'd think they'd be whistling Dixie right now if they felt that your view is the probable ending to these new medical rules. Best thing evah!
IMO if that were happening, the plan would be changed. This is all part of the fear of change.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
It also provides an incentive for companies to drop coverage when they weren't planning to do so.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
But this has been one thing all of us could rely on. Fedex has always taken care of our medical needs and never threatened to take it away. I know its not the best insurance but its better than nothing.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Of course most of us don't want to lose our insurance, but if Fedex wanted to get rid of our insurance they could have done it at any time, Obamacare will only cost them MORE money if they decide to do that, thanks to the Obamacare penalty they would have to pay...
How much is the subsidy? Insurance companies are required to give coverage, but pre-existing conditions cost much more. I had an angioplasty, have high blood pressure and diabetes. Might easily cost me $1000 a month or more for coverage.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Fedex and most companies try screwing their employees at every turn anymore, Obamacare will now make them pay for one facet of their doings.
I wish our government would impose more penalties for variuos things to keep employers in line, i.e. don't offer paid vacation? pay a fine, no paid sick days? pay fine, no living wage? fine....
I wish our government would impose more penalties for variuos things to keep employers in line, i.e. don't offer paid vacation? pay a fine, no paid sick days? pay fine, no living wage? fine....
Oh, stop. Fedex has never taken care of us in Ground and we are ridiculously profitable. Fred has to be looking at Express and ask, "What have you done for mee lately." It's one of thr freedoms at Ground: nothing promised, nothing stolen.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Ok , its a little tricky.
Let me try though.
Your max out of pocket for insurance will be capped at 9.5% of your income.
If you believe 12,000 a year is how much it would cost you to obtain insurance, you would not have to pay more than roughly $4200 (if income is 45 thousand a year for a single individual) for that $12000 coverage,.
So basically you would be subsidized the difference...
But what you are missing is that healthcare costs keep escalating. Companies are saying it'll be cheaper for them to just drop coverage and pay the penalty to the gov't. And employees who need coverage will be left holding the bag.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
My daughter recently did a rotation in Thailand. She told me of the horrible conditions. People waiting to see a doctor for hours and then recieving only 2 minutes time. God, is this what you want? I dont...."The individual mandate will do little, if anything, to solve the problem of "free riders" whose health expenses are paid for by the rest of us. The mandate will do nothing to decrease the actual cost of health services. Worst of all, the mandate will create a set of political incentives that will likely drive up the cost of health insurance while impeding the adoption of more effective reforms".
What are you paying for insurance now for a family? Is it something like $1000 per family member deductible and $300 a month? And that doesn't count the percentages the insurance doesn't cover for procedures? To me it seems that 300*12=$3600 and in your scenario $4200 is the max, for that extra $600 you have no deductibles and you are covered 100% on all visits and operations. Is that correct? To be honest, that would be a lot cheaper for the person making 45K with a family, a lot. The best spent $600 per year evah!
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Yeah but its still going to be capped at a fixed % for your cost.
Companies can drop insurance NOW without any penalty.
Obamacare will only punish them for doing it in the future.
Companies can drop insurance NOW without any penalty.
Obamacare will only punish them for doing it in the future.
That is what I always hear to, sometimes it's truth other times I hear conflicting stories. Thailand, I'm not sure if that is a good apples vs apples comparison. I would think Canada/Europe would be more like what we would see. But to think of that scenario, what that would also mean is the medical industry took it in the shorts hugely, that alone would be a major economic shift.
