Obamacare's effect on Teamsters 2013 contract

[Atomic_Smurf]

The Affordable Care Act seems to be taking its toll on the healthcare that UPS has provided its employees for decades. Time will tell but it doesn't sound good. All of the new taxes,penalties and other consequences of the legislation are hitting the company in the pocket book & now that money is going to Washington DC instead of towards Teamster pay and benefits. Obama care, to make it simple, is the redistribution of healthcare from those that earn it to those that dont. We are negotiating with a smaller pie this time because Hoffa decided his loyalty to the Democratic party was more important than his loyalty to the rank & file. I'm just trying to figure out why our union president would support this legislation when we had so much to lose and absolutely nothing to gain. Any thoughts?

 

[moreluck]

We have an Obamacare thread and a union discussion thread........either would be the place for this post!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We have an Obamacare thread and a union discussion thread........either would be the place for this post!

....or you could have (God forbid) skipped this thread altogether...

To the OP---thank you for starting this thread. You have given us much to think about. Dave.

 

[moreluck]

....or you could have (God forbid) skipped this thread altogether...

To the OP---thank you for starting this thread. You have given us much to think about. Dave.

Oh, haven't you heard.....all the mods are going to the BAHAMAS and they asked me to keep an EYE on things......so to speak.

 

[Bagels]

Do you have any evidence to support that ObamaCare is the reason UPS is asking its rank-and-file to pay toward their heath care?

Consider:
- Nationally, on average, health care premiums have soared over the past 30 years; since 2001, they have nearly doubled.
- UPS's work force, both management and hourly, is rapidly aging.
- FedEx Ground, UPS's largest competitor, pays NOTHING toward health care for its workforce. FedEx Ground's volume continues to rapidly grow while UPS's is more-or-less stagnant.
- UPS is a publicly traded company that has to respond to its shareholders.

The reality is that even without ObamaCare, UPS would still be asking us to pay toward health care. Don't like it? Stop voting, for example, for right-wing politicians who rule that FedEx Ground's business practices are legal.

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

Do you have any evidence to support that ObamaCare is the reason UPS is asking its rank-and-file to pay toward their heath care?

Consider:
- Nationally, on average, health care premiums have soared over the past 30 years; since 2001, they have nearly doubled.
- UPS's work force, both management and hourly, is rapidly aging.
- FedEx Ground, UPS's largest competitor, pays NOTHING toward health care for its workforce. FedEx Ground's volume continues to rapidly grow while UPS's is more-or-less stagnant.
- UPS is a publicly traded company that has to respond to its shareholders.

The reality is that even without ObamaCare, UPS would still be asking us to pay toward health care. Don't like it? Stop voting, for example, for right-wing politicians who rule that FedEx Ground's business practices are legal.

Well said....

 

[saintrick]

Do you have any evidence to support that ObamaCare is the reason UPS is asking its rank-and-file to pay toward their heath care?

Consider:
- Nationally, on average, health care premiums have soared over the past 30 years; since 2001, they have nearly doubled.
- UPS's work force, both management and hourly, is rapidly aging.
- FedEx Ground, UPS's largest competitor, pays NOTHING toward health care for its workforce. FedEx Ground's volume continues to rapidly grow while UPS's is more-or-less stagnant.
- UPS is a publicly traded company that has to respond to its shareholders.

The reality is that even without ObamaCare, UPS would still be asking us to pay toward health care. Don't like it? Stop voting, for example, for right-wing politicians who rule that FedEx Ground's business practices are legal.

Here are a few.

Increase Medicare tax rate by .9% and impose added tax of 3.8% on unearned income for high-income taxpayers. (Scott Davis)

Before the health care law, insurance companies could remove enrolled children usually at age 19, sometimes older for full-time students. Now, most health plans that cover children must make coverage available to children up to age 26. By allowing children to stay on a parent's plan, the law makes it easier and more affordable for young adults to get health insurance coverage
Your children can join or remain on your plan even if they are:

married
not living with you
attending school
not financially dependent on you
eligible to enroll in their employer’s plan


Insurers are prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits.

Insurers must spend 80% (for individual or small group insurers) or 85% (for large group insurers) of premium dollars on health costs and claims, leaving only 20% or 15% respectively for administrative costs and profits.

 

[Wally]

Do you have any evidence to support that ObamaCare is the reason UPS is asking its rank-and-file to pay toward their heath care?

Stop voting, for example, for right-wing politicians who rule that FedEx Ground's business practices are legal.

Are you talking about Judge Miller?

 

[Bagels]

Here are a few.

What you described has minimal effect on UPS; there are no Teamster employees within UPS with incomes subject to the new higher taxes & the removal of lifetime financial limits + enabling children to remain on their parents' insurance until age 26 has minimal impact that would be addressed through the deductibles & higher co-pays/insurances UPS is proposing (and some FT plans have already made adjustments to offset these costs).

While it's convenient to blame ObamaCare, our country has been facing a health care crisis for 30 years; UPS has absorbed these costs year after year. UPS is now a publicly traded company that needs to address to its share holders its high labor costs in relative to its competitors.

Given that UPS now receives more work from me in significantly fewer hours per week than it did 5 years ago, I do not feel that I should have to contribute toward any concessions this contract. But it's inevitable that ultimately, probably the next contract 4-5 years from now, that I will.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

There is no health care "crisis" in America and even if there was the government is the worst place to look for answers. Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's place. The crisis is that we have a plague of uninformed and downright idiotic of voters representing the democrat party.

 

[Bagels]

There is no health care "crisis" in America and even if there was the government is the worst place to look for answers. Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's place. The crisis is that we have a plague of uninformed and downright idiotic of voters representing the democrat party.

Educate yourself.

- Medical bills drive more than 60% of personal bankruptcies
- Per capita health care spending rose from $1100 in 1980 ($2875 in 2010 dollars) to $8402 by 2010
- About 20% of private sector employees contributed toward their health insurance in 1980 v. 95% by 2010.
- Average family contribution in 2010 exceeded $4,000 vs. just a few hundred dollars in 1980.
- Health care premiums have nearly doubled since 2001 (no outliers)
- In 1980, 94% of FT private sector employees were offered health insurance (91% participation) vs. 71% (51% participation) in 2010.
- % PT employees being offered health insurance is in the single digits, and the ranks of PT has soared over the past 30 years, with more than half either working two jobs or the equivalent of FT hours.
- The % of people with pre-existing conditions (cancer, HIV, etc.) able to get insurance from the secondary market is in the single digits.

(This doesn't cover the burden of un/underinsured persons on county/government hospitals...)

The problem is that our society expects employers to care about their employee's health... with is an unfair burden on the employer, which is mostly interested in maximizing profits.

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

There is no health care "crisis" in America and even if there was the government is the worst place to look for answers. Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's place. The crisis is that we have a plague of uninformed and downright idiotic of voters representing the democrat party.

I think the idiots and misinformed were proven to be republicans quite clearly in the last election.

 

[superbee]

thats the truth,what a bunch of nut jobs

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I'd have to say the democrats were. Logic dictates it. I mean why else would people vote for representation that raises taxes, weaken our military, rams a health care "tax" that the majority doesn't want down our throats, regulates businesses to death, and hasn't passed a budget in four years but spends millions on vacations for themselves, if they weren't misinformed? Hmmmmm....

 

[Bagels]

I'd have to say the democrats were. Logic dictates it. I mean why else would people vote for representation that raises taxes, weaken our military, rams a health care "tax" that the majority doesn't want down our throats, regulates businesses to death, and hasn't passed a budget in four years but spends millions on vacations for themselves, if they weren't misinformed? Hmmmmm....

LOL, as opposed to those who voted in 2000 for Republicans that took a budget surplus aimed at paying down the debt and immediately turned it into a deficit by cutting taxes, spent trillions on wars (why were we in Iraq again???), elected a president who spent 1,020 days on vacation in 8 years (WAY more than any other president ... Obama's on pace for 262) and deregulated the banking industry resulting in the artificial housing boom, then bust, then recession (now that Bank of America and WaMu were no longer responsible for the loans--could sell them to investors,etc--they began giving anybody credit...hmmm...who could've predicted that?)

We still spend more on defense than the next largest 13 economies combined -- including China -- and it isn't enough???? Really?

Like I said, educate yourself. (Hmm... interesting how the worst schools in the country all belong in bright red states. Coincidence?)

 

[saintrick]

What you described has minimal effect on UPS; there are no Teamster employees within UPS with incomes subject to the new higher taxes & the removal of lifetime financial limits + enabling children to remain on their parents' insurance until age 26 has minimal impact that would be addressed through the deductibles & higher co-pays/insurances UPS is proposing (and some FT plans have already made adjustments to offset these costs).

While it's convenient to blame ObamaCare, our country has been facing a health care crisis for 30 years; UPS has absorbed these costs year after year. UPS is now a publicly traded company that needs to address to its share holders its high labor costs in relative to its competitors.

Given that UPS now receives more work from me in significantly fewer hours per week than it did 5 years ago, I do not feel that I should have to contribute toward any concessions this contract. But it's inevitable that ultimately, probably the next contract 4-5 years from now, that I will.

I am not blaming O care but to think it does not have an effect on these talks is just as crazy as those that think its the driving factor.

 

[Bagels]

I am not blaming O care but to think it does not have an effect on these talks is just as crazy as those that think its the driving factor.

How is ObamaCare affecting these talks? UPS is already compliant with the provisions of ObamaCare, which will have minimal short-term costs for its bargaining employees. The dilution of benefits goes well beyond the costs of ObamaCare, let alone the steep co-premiums proposed. We don't know how much ObamaCare will ultimately cost; those on the left say it will cost less than what's already being paid for un/under-insured, ultimately stabling costs; those on the right say it'll cost so much our economy & health care system will collapse.

This isn't about ObamaCare. This is about UPS's high labor costs in relation to its competitors, which are reporting high growth while UPS remains stagnant. (Although, as I've already mentioned, my hard work -- more productivity in fewer hours -- lead to record profits and therefore I feel I should be rewarded, at least for now.)

BTW, to respond to the previous posting... all nonpartisan surveys show that the country is split evenly on ObamaCare within the margin of error (granted, few -- on both sides -- even know what it's about)... and Obama & the Democrats were re-elected despite the Republicans running on an anit-Obama platform (in fact, the Democrats would control the house if not for Gerrymandering) so it's completely false to say "most people don't want ObamaCare."

 

[oldngray]

Evenly split also means it's completely false to say "most people do want ObamaCare."

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

Evenly split also means it's completely false to say "most people do want ObamaCare."

And polls show they do once they know the facts and not the distorted right wing jibber jabbish out there.

Pollster- Do you like this?

Respondent-why yes, that sounds excellent.

Pollster-you know that is a key provision of Obamacare right?

Respondent-silence.....................click.....

 

[Bad Gas!]

There is no health care "crisis" in America and even if there was the government is the worst place to look for answers. Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's place. The crisis is that we have a plague of uninformed and downright idiotic of voters representing the democrat party.

" Thank You"