Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performance.

[over9five]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Over you are soo fos. Love ya

Back at ya!

And as for the fos part, don't even go there. I'll post the link!!!!

 

[paidover95]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

find a job before its too late!!

 

[toonertoo]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

I have a job. But I know superiors~ who may be looking.

 

[helenofcalifornia]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Bay Area? Northern California??? Yikes! How about East Bay or SF side, or other? Damn, that's close.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Update: nothing at all ended up happening to the driver, but the DM was moved from his DM job (in small package operation) to a management job in feeder. Us hourlies were led to believe that it was just a periodic shuffling around of management, but he had a lot of heat on him for challenging issues with his district. Who knows?Hopefully our new DM will put a priority on integrity and honesty. I never cut corners, and I always give 100%, but the "dirty" managers can run down the morale. I really do wonder if any UPS employee whether an hourly or in management has ever lost their job by following the methods, never lying, never cheating, etc. UPS does pay us handsomely so I don't mind taking the effort to do every little thing precisely as per the methods even when I have a very long day. Swearing off any and all shortcuts sure makes for a long day.

 

[tourists24]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Update: nothing at all ended up happening to the driver, but the DM was moved from his DM job (in small package operation) to a management job in feeder. Us hourlies were led to believe that it was just a periodic shuffling around of management, but he had a lot of heat on him for challenging issues with his district. Who knows?Hopefully our new DM will put a priority on integrity and honesty. I never cut corners, and I always give 100%, but the "dirty" managers can run down the morale. I really do wonder if any UPS employee whether an hourly or in management has ever lost their job by following the methods, never lying, never cheating, etc. UPS does pay us handsomely so I don't mind taking the effort to do every little thing precisely as per the methods even when I have a very long day. Swearing off any and all shortcuts sure makes for a long day.

thx for the update. I love hearing stories like this. I said earlier in this thread that this case wouldnt be heard and I am glad the driver was vindicated. Its a shame the company plays games like this anymore, but it is what it is. Maybe the more it happens, the more drivers will come together and stand up against it

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Discipline? Yes. Termination? No. Discipline ONLY when it was intentional. Which does occur, just not in the manner you might think.

I received a visitor message. I do not know how to respond to these. I looked around for a reply box. Maybe there is a trick to it or maybe I am just too tired from all of the manual labor. If I may respond publicly, I would say that I never, ever, ever do anything that would even remotely threaten my job. Not that I was being asked to do anything questionable. Anyway,...

 

[makethingsbetter1]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Ups is full of it all they do is harass any way they can and intiminate u

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Ups is full of it all they do is harass any way they can and intiminate u

I love this guy. In his first post, he accurately sums up what it is like to work under UPS management. Welcome to Brown Cafe!
Whenever management pulls its act (which is daily), I just immediately start thinking about what I can do to sharpen my game. I learned this from Al-Anon.
I do not fume about how unfair or hypocritical things are; I shift my focus right to what I do when I am on the clock. My whole day is about my job security. Every decision that I am faced with I imagine that I am being followed, filmed and recorded by a team sent by my DM for the sole purpose of firing me. There are hundreds of "do's" and "don'ts", and I make sure that I make the choice that would most keep me out of hot water. Consequently, I do run overallowed every day, but when they follow me they only observe trivial shortcomings. My thinking is that if you are not in compliance, then you are in violation, and if you are in violation then they can discipline you.
I have almost no love for this company because of the way management dispatches and treats the drivers, so I am just in it for my weekly check, the benefits and my pension. C.Y.A.: cover your arse!

 

[soberups]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

I love this guy. In his first post, he accurately sums up what it is like to work under UPS management. Welcome to Brown Cafe!
Whenever management pulls its act (which is daily), I just immediately start thinking about what I can do to sharpen my game. I learned this from Al-Anon.
I do not fume about how unfair or hypocritical things are; I shift my focus right to what I do when I am on the clock. My whole day is about my job security. Every decision that I am faced with I imagine that I am being followed, filmed and recorded by a team sent by my DM for the sole purpose of firing me. There are hundreds of "do's" and "don'ts", and I make sure that I make the choice that would most keep me out of hot water. Consequently, I do run overallowed every day, but when they follow me they only observe trivial shortcomings. My thinking is that if you are not in compliance, then you are in violation, and if you are in violation then they can discipline you.
I have almost no love for this company because of the way management dispatches and treats the drivers, so I am just in it for my weekly check, the benefits and my pension. C.Y.A.: cover your arse!

Unfortunately....he is 100% right.

Which is unfortunate. We would be a much stronger and more efficient company if we as employees felt empowered to make good decisions with the knowledge that our employer had our backs, instead of being forced to assume that every action we take will be documented and used to make a case for our termination.

"Covering one's ass" is a great way to survive, but a poor way to succeed.

 

[Catatonic]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

"Covering one's ass" is a great way to survive, but a poor way to succeed.

What if one defines success as surviving?

 

[Anonymous 10]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

What if one defines success as surviving?

I'm a survivor and at the end that's all that will matter here at United Parcel.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

What if one defines success as surviving?

I will give UPS credit for its survival and growth through some very tough economic times. I never claimed to be knowledgeable about management science or economics.
Theoretically, though, they could say (as paraphrased from the Denzel Washington movie about a runaway train) "I have only one rule: if you are going to do something, do it the right way. If you don't know the right way, then ask." They could accompany that umbrella directive with a display of honesty and integrity on the part of management. My father was a middle manager for a pharmaceutical company for over 35 years, and he said that he never had to lie or cheat once in his entire career.
Intimidation, harassment and fearmongering can achieve the desired result, but at what cost? If, during the course of my route, I get a reasonable idea that would save UPS money (e.g. make a few deliveries at adjacent businesses while a customer prepares the COD checks or "try to improve EDD"), I never feel empowered to act on such ideas. I wait at the business for the consignee to become available and prepare the COD checks and I follow EDD verbatim while driving right past stops that I need to make later thinking "I could have saved time by changing EDD a little based on what houses got packages today."
Oh, well. Nothing is perfect. UPS paid for my wife's oncology treatment, my chemical dependency program and my kids' braces, so I give them their due credit. I'm just saying to management: consider being compassionate, honest and fair ALL THE TIME and you will reap the benefits of a compliant, loyal and motivated staff.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

If, during the course of my route, I get a reasonable idea that would save UPS money (e.g. make a few deliveries at adjacent businesses while a customer prepares the COD checks or "try to improve EDD"), I never feel empowered to act on such ideas. I wait at the business for the consignee to become available and prepare the COD checks and I follow EDD verbatim while driving right past stops that I need to make later thinking "I could have saved time by changing EDD a little based on what houses got packages today."

Why in the world would you stand there and wait? Why wouldn't you deliver those stops now rather than come back later? I have a drug paraphenalia store that orders most of their stuff COD. I take a moment to write down the shipper(s) and COD amount(s) and hand that to the owner. I then deliver the surrounding stops and by the time I come back to her all of the checks are ready and there is a Pepsi on the counter for me. If by chance one of the shippers is asking for certified funds I swing back in the afternoon while making pickups. As far as driving past stops, EDD is only a guide, not an edict. Why would you drive by a stop that you can deliver?

Work smarter, not harder.

 

[moreluck]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Why in the world would you stand there and wait? Why wouldn't you deliver those stops now rather than come back later? I have a drug paraphenalia store that orders most of their stuff COD. I take a moment to write down the shipper(s) and COD amount(s) and hand that to the owner. I then deliver the surrounding stops and by the time I come back to her all of the checks are ready and there is a Pepsi on the counter for me. If by chance one of the shippers is asking for certified funds I swing back in the afternoon while making pickups. As far as driving past stops, EDD is only a guide, not an edict. Why would you drive by a stop that you can deliver?

Work smarter, not harder.

And they don't 'roofie' your Pepsi ??

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Why in the world would you stand there and wait? Why wouldn't you deliver those stops now rather than come back later? I have a drug paraphenalia store that orders most of their stuff COD. I take a moment to write down the shipper(s) and COD amount(s) and hand that to the owner. I then deliver the surrounding stops and by the time I come back to her all of the checks are ready and there is a Pepsi on the counter for me. If by chance one of the shippers is asking for certified funds I swing back in the afternoon while making pickups. As far as driving past stops, EDD is only a guide, not an edict. Why would you drive by a stop that you can deliver?

Work smarter, not harder.

That is how I used to do it until I got called into the office and threatened with a discharge for stealing time. They said that going back for a check or delivering a service notice with the amount (i.e. a "heads up") is "creating work for myself" and theft. For a COD package, we may go to the location only one time in a given day. Sometimes I call my customers on my cell phone to tell them to have the check ready, but I have to be sorting the car while I make the call. Heaven help a driver who delivers the boxes and leaves the premises without all of the checks. This is "an illegal loan" according to my on car supe. The only way that we can make a COD attempt is to take the boxes and either leave with the checks or the boxes; even if it is a pickup account, making a second attempt that day is theft of time.
Regarding following EDD, a bonus or scratch driver can do whatever he wants. A driver who runs overallowed, however, can only break trace unless it is necessary; for example, you can't find the parcel or the business is closed. If I were to break trace in my resi area, it would show up in a report (percentage following EDD) and I would be asked to explain myself in front of my center manager, my on car and a steward in order to avoid progressive discipline.
We have been instructed by our center manager, our on car supes, our steward and our union business manager to "follow EDD". Maybe our center is stricter than yours?

 

[Brown_Star]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

for those of you that have been with ups a while,just think back 10 or so years and envision a sup or center manager walk up to you at a stop and tell you they were taking you out of service for not using three points of contact.imagine this at a local,or panel level.now tell me what has changed?economy?union?you?me?ups?this next election and contract will be where changes are made.i am ashamed as a second generation teamster that this man has to even file on this.dont wait to see what ups comes up with next{the 500 safe methods part 2} as a tool under the guise of safety.and dont wait to see if the current slate will set back and allow them to ram it down our throats,they have and will.sorry for the rambling and anger but i have seen hard working men and women abused to achieve a unobtainable performance level and i know their numbers will only increase unless we jam it down their throats.

If that's the case "new safe work methods " we'll be laughing all the way to the bank! All these safety methods = a longer paid day!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Following EDD is not an issue for me as I took the time when the PAS/EDD team was in my center to set up my DOL the way that I wanted it. I go through EDD before leaving the building and throughout the day to see if there is a more efficient way for me to do the route that day.

As far as the COD's go, I have notepads from a local windshield shop in my PC and use these to write down the COD info. I am able to deliver the 3-4 stops near this one business while she is writing her checks. I would challenge your center manager to show me how this is not efficient. I also drive by this business while doing my pickups and will reattempt any send agains. I would again challenge your center manager to show me how this is not efficient. As far as you only being allowed to attempt a COD once in a day--are you telling us that if the customer came up to you later in the day with checks in hand asking for his pkgs that you would not be allowed to deliver them? All you would have to do is void the first delivery after completing the second.

The one thing that I will never do is leave the pkgs and come back in the afternoon for the checks. We do have bid drivers who do this and the cover drivers feel as though they also have to do this. I recall my instructor at driving school telling us of a driver who had dropped off the pkgs in the morning only to come back in the afternoon to find that the business had gone out of business. The driver was on the hook for the COD's.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Following EDD is not an issue for me as I took the time when the PAS/EDD team was in my center to set up my DOL the way that I wanted it. I go through EDD before leaving the building and throughout the day to see if there is a more efficient way for me to do the route that day.

As far as the COD's go, I have notepads from a local windshield shop in my PC and use these to write down the COD info. I am able to deliver the 3-4 stops near this one business while she is writing her checks. I would challenge your center manager to show me how this is not efficient. I also drive by this business while doing my pickups and will reattempt any send agains. I would again challenge your center manager to show me how this is not efficient. As far as you only being allowed to attempt a COD once in a day--are you telling us that if the customer came up to you later in the day with checks in hand asking for his pkgs that you would not be allowed to deliver them? All you would have to do is void the first delivery after completing the second.

The one thing that I will never do is leave the pkgs and come back in the afternoon for the checks. We do have bid drivers who do this and the cover drivers feel as though they also have to do this. I recall my instructor at driving school telling us of a driver who had dropped off the pkgs in the morning only to come back in the afternoon to find that the business had gone out of business. The driver was on the hook for the COD's.

If we want to change the order of how we deliver stops, we have to go in with a supe and change the EDD. The supes are pretty busy and I get in late, so this takes weeks or months to accomplish.
I regularly have customers come to me later in the day and tell me that the COD check is now ready and they want their stuff. I tell them that I will get fired if I make 2 attempts in a day, and that I am only allowed to work 12 hours and that I will be lucky if I can finish what I have in 12 hours. I tell them that they will get it tomorrow. They don't like it, but they have to respect the fact that I am not going to risk my job because they weren't ready when I made the COD attempt.
What you do with your notepads giving your customers the COD amounts sounds efficient and reasonable to me, but we are not allowed to go two times (once to drop off the COD data on the notepads and once more to bring the packages in exchange for the checks that are ready) has clearly been defined as theft of time by our center manager. I have personally been in the center manager's office with my on car, my steward and my center manager with the threat of discharge for doing exactly this strategy: one visit per day means one visit per day. So now I stand by the consignee while he writes the checks: if they are following me, they would walk in and see me standing by a customer writing checks, or maybe they would see me leaving the address holding the checks: that is the best for my job security.
When I finally made the decision to do every little thing the correct way (I still hustle), it added about .60 hours to my day. I now run overallowed by about 1.10 hours every day. My paychecks are friggin' huge and my wife is happy: win/win/win!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Try this--it will allow you to take care of the customer while keeping your center manager off your back. If a customer comes to you with checks in hand, deliver their pkgs to them and then go back in and void out the original delivery.

I will tell you that if you had my COD pkgs and I came to you with checks in hand and you refused to deliver them I would be calliing the 1-800# on you.