OPL Liquidation Starting

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by longups, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. longups

    longups Guest

    Did everyone get the announcement that OPL is sending $2.00 to you on 4/9/03 as the first part of their corporate Liquidating Distribution?

    What does it mean? $2.00 per share? Where will it be sent? Is it taxable or capital gain (or loss)?
  2. rshoe4056

    rshoe4056 Guest

  3. proups

    proups Guest

    It looks like OPL is finally liquidating.

    $2 per share is the first distribution. I hope they tell us when and how many distributions will be made. This will really impact some people's taxes. Many people got OPL shares at $.25 a share. This will mean a $1.85 per share capital gain.
  4. peacock71

    peacock71 Guest

    MY guess is the distribution will be in the form of ordinary income. Whether any of it can be deferred remains to be seen. AN ordinary income distribution would allow the IRS to recoup quite a bit of what they thought was theirs anyway through the tax implication.

    Go UPS!
  5. michael

    michael Guest

    You are 100% correct; this is a very confusing situation. Ordinary income can be taxed up to 39%. (Depending on your tax bracket) If this is treated as such, it could prove to be a big tax burden.

    Capital gains on the other hand are taxed at 20%. The capital gains theory is in question though because we would need to know what the total liquidation price would be. To take that one step further, we can (in some cases) declare a loss if the shares were purchased for an amount over the total liquidation price. Another problem with this is the fact that some shares were acquired at 25 some at more, so the original acquisition price will also have a direct affect on the amount of capital gains.

    Im sure we will find out when they send out the Notice of distribution letters. I am hopeful that the people in charge at OPL would have anticipated the fact that these kinds of questions would arise and that they will have the answers that we need.
  6. robonono

    robonono Guest

    Hey, $2 per share is a good start, regardless of the type of income that it will be. In my mind, I had all but written off OPL as a total loss last year.

    I am grateful to get the $2, and hope that it is the first of many distributions.
  7. longups

    longups Guest

    Robonono, I don't like to think that $2.00 is good if it's ordinary income. That means I only get 61% on the dollar. The money OPL has is ours as shareholders and they must do their best effort to give it back! Over compensating directors, spending lavishly on travel, or meetings is also not a good way to use our money.

    I hate to say it, but I'm not greatful to get $2.00 back, I want it back as a capital distribution against my holdings so it can be used as a capital (loss) or gain. I also want all $10 + back or more. I had alot of the $0.25 shares but I also had some of the $21.00 shares.

    As we have seen in the past couple of years with Enron, Worldcom, and others misuse of shareholder money or worse fraud is criminal. I hope that is not what is at play here.
  8. proups

    proups Guest

    longups: I don't think you can compare OPL to Enron, WorldCom, or those other financial frauds.

    OPL was hit very hard by the IRS lawsuit, and had to back off their core business, which was insuring packages tendered to UPS. They had nothing left really but property as assets, so they started selling. We all know that the economy is slumping, so commercial property is not at a premium. This meant more losses for OPL. Eventually, OPL won their appeal of the IRS suit, but the damage had been done.

    I am glad to get anything from OPL. Just the fact that there is something left would indicate to me that there is no intent of fraud.
  9. michael

    michael Guest


    I agree with you somewhat; I dont think there was intentional fraud at OPL. However, there were plenty of highly compensated people who had the job of looking out for the best interests of the company and the shareholders. That is what they were being paid very well to do. Those at the top knew very well what COULD have happened as well as what WAS happening.

    Most of us received this stock, as part of our compensation package with the hopes that it would grow and be prosperous, for a while all was right with the world. Then the IRS problem. That was the beginning of the end. At that point if we (the stockholders) would have had the opportunity to sell more than 10% of our holdings I would only guess that most of us would have sold, at least we would have gotten more from our investment at that point. I think that the BOD at OPL should have given us that opportunity at that time. It is a privately held company and I am not sure if there would have been any legal ramifications (the SEC included) but even if there would have been Im sure we could have worked around them.

    I do not feel I was given this stock for free I feel I worked for it. I feel it was an investment and like any other investment I expected a decent return, if that did not happen I would sell that investment and move on. Unfortunately we were not given that opportunity.

    There are those that would say that the BOD and all others in power at OPL stand to lose just like the rest of us. While that may be true on a share-by-share basis, we are not compensated as well as those people, nor do we have the lucrative contracts, or the generous severance packages.

    I would be interested to hear if there are any others that share this opinion or have other thoughts on this subject.

  10. longups

    longups Guest

    Michael; its hard to say if there was any improper behavior at the BOD of OPL and we will never know.

    But they could not have opened selling to all as the cash would be depleted within a short time and those who didn't sell first would be left holding the proverbial bag.

    I also seem to recall that from the announcement date of the IRS problem to the end of that year you could sell anything you wanted.

    And yes I agree, I too worked hard for that stock!
  11. proups

    proups Guest

    michael: I won't ever disagree that there a few highly compensated people at OPL. All we have to do is read our proxy.

    I do agree with longups that the reason that they froze the stock was that there would have been a rush to sell it, and those slow to react would have lost everything.

    I really thought I would have nothing after all was said and done, so a little is better than nothing!
  12. michael

    michael Guest


    You may be correct about that first year and being able to sell as much as you wanted, I really dont remember. To that end though I dont think anyone was prepared for what was to come.

    I understand your point about depleting the cash and you are probably correct, however they (The BOD) should have been able to come up with some type of compensation for the shareholders, in some fashion. Lets face it, if the little shareholders saw the inevitable on the horizon, why didnt they? Again, they got paid the big bucks, not us. That is what they are paid to do, what would happen to us if we did our job they way they did theirs?

    I guess the fact that my hands were tied and I was stuck with a losing investment and couldnt do anything about it is what bothers me the most.

  13. michael

    michael Guest


    I guess I must be getting cranky in my old age. I suppose something is better than nothing like you said, but it is like being at the mercy of others and having no control over what happens.

  14. dammor

    dammor Guest

    I'm a bit confused, so be kind.
    When the thrift plan was desolved and we were able to buy stock apparently we bought
    OPL as well. I have received no imformation about this recently. I do remember years ago that I had some though. Have ya'll recieved personal mail recently informing you of the status or how many shares you own?
  15. robonono

    robonono Guest


    We received several "quarterly" letters last year, as well as a Statement of Investment Activity on January 8, 2003 that does show your number of shares held by the custodian.
  16. dammor

    dammor Guest

    Thanks for the info. Looks like I need to get the statements out and make an effort to understand them.
  17. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    I was just on Yahoo Finance at the UPS message board there. There is a poster called Honda400four2003 that was claiming there is somekind of class action suit coming about that is seeking over 3 shares of UPS stock for every 1 OPL. It all sounded like that is what should be done and what would be fair. A few people bashing him but they were probable people that had a interest to not see this kind of settlement. I sure would like to have what I would have had in UPS stock had I not been forced to buy OPL. The poster also mentioned a company called ANR that a lot of UPSer's bought because OPL did. I hope he is right that the law is on our side.
  18. where did he get 3 ups for 1 opl. i remember something like for each 3 or 4 share of ups stock you got one of opl.
  19. wvbrown

    wvbrown Guest

    It's was 4 UPS for 1 OPL
  20. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    The over 3 for one share swap they are talking about does not have to do with the orginal sales ratio. It is what you would have had had you not been forced to buy OPL share in the first place another words what you would have for your money today. 10 dollars for 1 share of OPL is what you have right now ( or I am hearing 5 payments of 2 dollars) had we not been forced to buy the OPL stock and instead been given UPS shares. The 10 dollars would be worth somewhere around two hundred and fifty dollars. And this ANR scandal that UPS OPL was envolved in... it sounds like the people that did this should go to jail.