Orian= the new EDD???

[UPSGUY72]

We have the system in one of are building in my local. The system is only as good as the people that input the data in to the system. Meaning the system (ie computer program) doesn't reorder your route automatically with the data you have in your board. They have to send a person out with you a number of times to ride along with you and put info into a computer so the program can work when you ask it to.

It is a good concept however the edd and PAS systems where too but they also have there limitations. but it only takes into account local when rearraging the edd not business and recidential. IT also doesn't know how much you have loaded in you car. So it could tell you to start in the 8000 section first if you last air was in that general area.

Besides all that It could takes years to full implement in a larger building it took almost a year in a building with less than 30 routes.

 

[pretzel_man]

We have the system in one of are building in my local. The system is only as good as the people that input the data in to the system. Meaning the system (ie computer program) doesn't reorder your route automatically with the data you have in your board. They have to send a person out with you a number of times to ride along with you and put info into a computer so the program can work when you ask it to.

It is a good concept however the edd and PAS systems where too but they also have there limitations. but it only takes into account local when rearraging the edd not business and recidential. IT also doesn't know how much you have loaded in you car. So it could tell you to start in the 8000 section first if you last air was in that general area.

Besides all that It could takes years to full implement in a larger building it took almost a year in a building with less than 30 routes.

They were testing a concept, not implementing the system. They were learning how to use it and if it works.

What happened to cost in that building? Were any drivers disciplined? Any ridiculous metrics?

 

[Brown287]

ORIAN sounds a lot like what I do each and every day already. Who doesn't look through their EDD and alter their delivery route depending on all the above mentioned parameters. In my opinion if you don't alter and adjust your route depending on your day to better your results then your STEALING time. Cover drivers with no experience on the route, have a valid reason to only follow EDD but veteran drivers with extensive route knowledge have NO excuses. We would be better served to have a system in place that better arrange your load depending on bulk or heavier then normal resi areas. Also can some one please explain why will-call packages still show up in EDD the next day, but future packages don't? Very ironic.

 

[Braveheart]

Much like PAS/EDD way too much invested for little gain. I run my route based on closing times, air commits, pick up commits, closed for lunch etc. No computer program can match the daily adjustments.

I agree 100%.

My sup is always questioning my trace. I say EDD will cause service failures. EDD will cause 2 tripping to closed businesses and even the loss of business.

Some close early, some open later, some have 2 hour lunches and others are big accounts that want their stuff early and out of trace.

 

[Dragon]

Pretzel about the mileage issue.

Miles cost (alot of) $
Drivers are rewarded for upping mileage (allowances, "making 8", bonus etc)
Profit?

It always confused me but i woukd imagine if there was a way to disincentize mileage there would be a huge savings

Some1else,

In each area (2020, 2021 etc)

1 mile on area 2020 = the driver averages 22 mph and is 25 miles from the building thus this driver may have a higher allowance for on area miles then area 2021.

1 mile on area 2021 = the driver averages 28 mph and is 18 miles from the building and may have a lower allowance for on area miles then area 2020.

I do not think they will ever disincentive the mileage issue, its to basic.

 

[soberups]

ORIAN sounds a lot like what I do each and every day already. Who doesn't look through their EDD and alter their delivery route depending on all the above mentioned parameters. In my opinion if you don't alter and adjust your route depending on your day to better your results then your STEALING time. Cover drivers with no experience on the route, have a valid reason to only follow EDD but veteran drivers with extensive route knowledge have NO excuses. We would be better served to have a system in place that better arrange your load depending on bulk or heavier then normal resi areas. Also can some one please explain why will-call packages still show up in EDD the next day, but future packages don't? Very ironic.

When your sup comes to you the next day with an inch-thick stack of reports and starts whining about the fact that you didnt run 85% "on trace" or that you were a couple of percentage points off on your "15 minute pickup compliance", it can be mighty tempting to just turn your brain off and do it 100% "their way". Any action you take to get off of one of their reports will simply cause you to show up on a different one. In the end, using your own good judgement is the best choice; they are going to complain about something anyway so you may as well do the right thing and learn to filter out the whining.

 

[brownmonster]

Eventually the employees wil get tired of this BS and give in and do things exactly as mgmnt wants us to without thinking, adjusting or caring. Good bye UPS.

 

[pretzel_man]

Pretzel about the mileage issue.

Miles cost (alot of) $
Drivers are rewarded for upping mileage (allowances, "making 8", bonus etc)
Profit?

It always confused me but i woukd imagine if there was a way to disincentize mileage there would be a huge savings

I agree completely. Miles are the poorest understood and poorest measured part of the day. Nowhere in UPS is there a standard for how many miles a route should be. The historical average becomes the plan.

If this can be better understood and better planned, a driver who runs up miles for planned time will no longer look good. A management person who looks the other way when this happens will no longer be rewarded.

I do believe there is huge savings here.

 

[TheDick]

Eventually the employees wil get tired of this BS and give in and do things exactly as mgmnt wants us to without thinking, adjusting or caring. Good bye UPS.

My SUP is trying real hard to get us to work this way. He has won. Nobody in the group tells him anything about anything anymore. Other than asking for help everyday to avoid service failures I dont say a word, its a waste of my time.

 

[pretzel_man]

I'm interested in seeing this Orion system. Let me know if I'm understanding this right, P-man. For instance if my last NDA is a shag will the system re-orginize the trace so that I do the entire area while I am there? Its what I do now and thinks its the logical way to go.

Yes, that is how I understand it.

What sticks out to me is that the packages can't reorganize themselves. In other words, while I would love to complete the entire section with the shag NDA, sometimes its impossible because the truck is full. This means we are going to be delivering the packages out of sequence and this creates many headaches on its own. Wasn't this a main benefit of EDD in the first place?

I would guess much time would be wasted searching through the 5000 section of a packed truck for 25 house calls. You know there will always be one missing and you can't really sort the section because all the shelves are full. Has this been considered?

I asked that question myself... There will definitley be more sorting out of sequence. More pulling from the 5000's, 6000's, etc.

On a full car, this will be harder. The savings in mileage and time will need to be weighed against the resorting in the car.

Maybe they will reorganize some of the load for this.

 

[UPSGUY72]

They were testing a concept, not implementing the system. They were learning how to use it and if it works.

What happened to cost in that building? Were any drivers disciplined? Any ridiculous metrics?

It only works if the driver hits the button to rearrange the trace. However once you hit the button you figure out that it going to take more time to dig through your car trying to find the next stop that you just hit the button again and go back to the regular trace.

The problem is that trace changes almost daily these days with add/cuts sometimes you hit the button to rearrange and it worse than the original trace in any given building there are millions of way to deliver all the packages on any given day. You could have a supercomputer trying to figure it outthe best way and we all be dead before it did but for some reason they think a couple of desk jockey can do it better.

They are saving alot on money becasue they are cutting routes and overworking the rest of the drivers in everybuilding in the country becasue someone came up with a minimum stops per car thinking it would save money. This is what you get when you have people running the business that have NO CLUE what has to happen for a package to get delivered. The same reason the economy is the way it is, you have people making decisions on theory instead of real world experience.

 

[tourists24]

You could have a supercomputer trying to figure it outthe best way and we all be dead before it did but for some reason they think a couple of desk jockey can do it better.

They are saving alot on money becasue they are cutting routes and overworking the rest of the drivers in everybuilding in the country becasue someone came up with a minimum stops per car thinking it would save money. This is what you get when you have people running the business that have NO CLUE what has to happen for a package to get delivered. The same reason the economy is the way it is, you have people making decisions on theory instead of real world experience.

The response you are about to receive is going to be about how great the system designers are praised by the experts in the IE community and magazines. How these things are almost perfect if just used correctly.

 

[brown bomber]

I'm interested in seeing this Orion system. Let me know if I'm understanding this right, P-man. For instance if my last NDA is a shag will the system re-orginize the trace so that I do the entire area while I am there? Its what I do now and thinks its the logical way to go.

What sticks out to me is that the packages can't reorganize themselves. In other words, while I would love to complete the entire section with the shag NDA, sometimes its impossible because the truck is full. This means we are going to be delivering the packages out of sequence and this creates many headaches on its own. Wasn't this a main benefit of EDD in the first place?

I would guess much time would be wasted searching through the 5000 section of a packed truck for 25 house calls. You know there will always be one missing and you can't really sort the section because all the shelves are full. Has this been considered?

 

[brown bomber]

It hasnt been considered because in IE world, the trucks are never "packed". In IE world, every load is a walk-through and every package is neatly lined up in a row on the shelf with a visible PAL label.

bottom line, you're still at the mercy of the preload........if loaders are given enough time, it might be a success........otherwise the same pattern continues.......you will still have to waste time searching for that missing 1 of 2 delivery.......find it 2 hrs. later, try to figure out the most efficient way to deliver this misload, and then not being able to take credit for said stop

 

[tourists24]

they dont want an earlier preload start time in order to cut costs..... but they will spend extra on rental cars so their sups can run around and spy on the drivers.... sweet

 

[UPSBOI]

Because the dispatch sup is too lazy to straighten EDD out.

 

[Super64]

I just want the ability to select a package off the manifest in my DIAD, press FIND, and have the package(s) blink, make a noise, do something to find it under the mound of that manages to find itself onto the package car during peak. The rest of the year we can go back to carrier pidgins.

 

[pretzel_man]

x

 

[Re-Raise]

There is nothing wrong with using technology to improve operations as long as it is done with logic, common sense, and the humility to admit when something just isnt working....along with the willingness to bring expectations into alignment with reality.

Unfortunately, these qualities (logic, common sense, humility and willingess) are rare commodities in the metric-driven UPS corporate culture of today.

Reducing miles is a perfect example. In and of itself, reducing miles is a worthy goal...as long as it is pursued with the knowledge that the shortest distance between two points isnt always the fastest.

I have a "road" on my route that is 2 miles long and is little better than a steep goat trail with gravel on it. It is rutted and potholed to the point where traveling at a speed greater than 10MPH will cause every package on my shelves to be thrown onto the floor. Depending upon the location of the stops (if any) on this road, it can often be quicker (and safer) for me to make a 2.6 mile detour around it using a paved and well-lit road with a 45 MPH speed limit. Shorter doesnt equal faster.

I know nothing about the new Orion program. I have no reason to doubt its potential...as long as it is still used as a guide rather than a requirement. My gut tells me that we will make the same mistakes with it that we did with PAS/EDD and Telematics......which means that it will be implemented "on the cheap" and promptly buried in a steaming pile of micro-management, conflicting expectations, and arbitrary metrics.

I hope I'm wrong. I dont think I will be.

Pretzel you seem like a smart guy and you obviously have a great deal of patience based on your posts here.

But I have to tell you, Sober's version of the reality that is UPS is exactly the same as mine.

They think they can micro manage the drivers on route like we are robots on an automobile assembly line.

You have the luxury of having the kind of employees that $30 an hour can buy you, let us make informed decisions.

Technology is a great tool, but they need to remember it is just a tool.

 

[tourists24]

Pretzel you seem like a smart guy and you obviously have a great deal of patience based on your posts here.

But I have to tell you, Sober's version of the reality that is UPS is exactly the same as mine.

They think they can micro manage the drivers on route like we are robots on an automobile assembly line.

You have the luxury of having the kind of employees that $30 an hour can buy you, let us make informed decisions.

Technology is a great tool, but they need to remember it is just a tool.

Its not just you Re.... its many many UPS workers.... I am on the opposite end of the country as Sober, yet amazingly feel very much the same. The same with you (not knowing where you are). This isnt a coincidence. Its the difference of the Pretzel's view (tech end) and the reality on the front lines.