Our manufacturing output in certain fields keeps growing and growing but a broad based manufacturing economy where a local can get a decent job for 40 years in his hometown is mostly a thing of the past. And automation has reduced the amount of jobs too while increasing output. Trump, heaven help us, is right about two things. Letting in millions of undocumented immigrants has hurt the average American worker. And paying what we do to defend other countries is ridiculous. We ought to reduce our military's share of the budget by charging other countries for our involvement in their defense.
Our Fantastic Healthcare
- Thread starter vantexan
- Start date
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
Keynsianism saved us from the great depression, you can't deny that. Is it sustainable? Probably not it will fail at some point, but it can be kept going for a quite a while.
The 'Great Recession' Was cured by ramping up spending, just the same as during the depression, tax revenues have been steadily increasing since 2009.
Like a said what's the alternative? Another great depression, and just let it take its course, are you prepared to lose everything?
Continued downward pressure on pay and benefits will some time in the near future present a choice to Xpress drivers. Find a completely new line of work or if they continue in their line of employment seek out representation and right now the only real source of representation available to them is through a union. Despite all of it's fault's if that's all you got then make full use of it.
BananaCat
Active Member
Keynesian economics stopped working when corporate america started owning 99%. When we had a middle class, and people could buy stuff, it worked great. Corporate America owns all but 1 space on the monopoly board now.
Many corporations don't put money back into our economy. They put it in off-shore tax havens. They put it in hedge funds and other more risky investments and get bailed out. They build brand new manufacturing plants oversees. They almost always give CEO's and upper management huge raises every year. They participate in illegal behavior. They don't invest in their own manufacturing plants and run them too lean and into the ground (definitely saw this working at a Pepsi plant). Guess I'm beating a dead horse here.
I grow my own food, getting ready to live off the grid, learning how to make my own household products, and living very comfortably within my means. I could care less if our economy goes to hell.
Many corporations don't put money back into our economy. They put it in off-shore tax havens. They put it in hedge funds and other more risky investments and get bailed out. They build brand new manufacturing plants oversees. They almost always give CEO's and upper management huge raises every year. They participate in illegal behavior. They don't invest in their own manufacturing plants and run them too lean and into the ground (definitely saw this working at a Pepsi plant). Guess I'm beating a dead horse here.
I grow my own food, getting ready to live off the grid, learning how to make my own household products, and living very comfortably within my means. I could care less if our economy goes to hell.
There isn't enough tax revenue to cover expenditures though. It's called deficit spending and those bonds we sell to China and others is what covers it. Servicing that debt keeps taking a bigger chunk out of our budget. Ultimately that will cut out many social programs because we can't have the U.S. defaulting which would make the Great Depression look like an average recession. So hard choices are going to have to be made and we need leaders willing to make them. The current path is unsustainable.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Not saying that. But pretending it's still 1963 isn't constructive either. Cuba is no longer any threat (except to Right Wing values) and it's time to re-establish relations.
And, YES to single-payer.
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
It's called monitizing the debt, where we buy our own debt no foreign buyers necessary. Another name is quantitative easing. Japan has been doing it for decades.. yes it's unsustainable, but it can go on for a long time..
Except to it's own people.
BananaCat
Active Member
When is hyperinflation going to kick in due to QE? I'm counting on it to wipe out my student loans.
And Japan's economy has been in a deflationary spiral since the 90's. And quantitive easing was used to service our debt to foreign nations, which has got them angry. What you are suggesting, it appears, is we stop selling bonds and just print money to cover everything. Familiar with the Weimar Republic?
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
It won't, they're trying to keep it stable so the game can continue as long as possible
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
We do buy our own bonds inderectly, do you really think china buys us bonds because they love the united states so much? Of course not. They buy them to maintain the currency peg and stabilize their currency. We run trade deficits, so china is forced to buy our bonds to maintain the peg, so in essence we've been buying our own bonds since before qe.
Weimar inflation was because they printed too much too fast to pay ww1 reparations, and factories shut down because of faltering economy, cutting the supply of goods. Creating a runaway scenario.
China manipulates their currency to get a competitive advantage. They buy our bonds because as the world's biggest economy we are the place the world goes to safely invest their own revenue to get a return that helps pay their own budgets. When we get cute with how we pay them back they get agitated. We had a balanced budget in the 90's. We should've made it a law to keep it balanced. Unfortunately when we are doing well, no matter the administration, we lose sight of the responsibility to keep the country solvent and overspend. We should be working towards putting every able bodied adult to work, get them off drugs if needed, and only assist the working poor as well as the handicapped. And if any industry is a threat to our citizens' lives, such as the healthcare industry, they should have limits put on what they can charge. We need to get back to insurance that covers us without crippling us. Doctors should be paid well but they, and healthcare exec's, aren't entitled to be millionaires at our expense.
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
Where did china get the us dollars to buy the us treasuries?
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Sure I can, and there are strong arguments that it prolonged the depression.
Probably not? Ever heard of the 1970s, when it collapsed?
That's such a simplistic way of looking at it that there is no response for it.
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
Yes the bretton woods system collapsed In the 70s dumping the international gold exchange for a fixed exchange rate system which is even more keynsian.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Friedman predicted exactly how Keynesian policies would fail and it had nothing to do with the actions of corporate America.
slowdriver
Well-Known Member
Yet he advocated, negative income tax, and 'helicopter money'. He was a hypocrite.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Stop digging.
From selling us manufactured goods. We have a huge trade deficit with them too.
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