Our Pension program is taking a hit at UPS !

mpmbklyn

New Member
I am a member of 804 in N.Y. In my opinion this is all a ploy by this Sc__mbag company we work for to attempt to take control of our pension once again.Lets go back to 97 we all hit the street for one reason and it wasnt for larger turkeys for the boys for christmas.The strike was all about Ups taking control of the pension and the Teamsters were not gonna let that happen.Ups does not want there dollars for there employees funding all Teamster companies.Contract coming up 08 Ups will try to go after pension again with the promise to fix it.
 

wildgoose

WILDGOOSE
Hey Mpmbkln

The company is tired of the stupidity of the union for getting into this spot. Your local 804 and our central states played into the company and the government having to take over to try to straighten out this mess the teamsters representation has led us down that path. As far as i am concerned the teamsters have brought it upon themselves otherwise they would not have to concede 30% of your future pension benifits - right ! We are (Central States) 50% of future accruals in reductions. I don`t trust the company but i trust the teamsters even less for just being plain greedy and ignorant. This is the outcome of not minding the farm ! As far as i am concerned the teamsters dropped the ball and this is what we are dealing with. The Apwa has no track record but it seems that 100% of all $`s would be allocated towards our pension. The insurance would not be in the state is in now too ! We pay the union dues and they tell us what they want ? Until the drivers or hourly`s figure that out they can just keep bending over and taking it over and over and over :-(.......
 

Buckethead

Well-Known Member
Hey Mpmbkln

The company is tired of the stupidity of the union for getting into this spot. Your local 804 and our central states played into the company and the government having to take over to try to straighten out this mess the teamsters representation has led us down that path. As far as i am concerned the teamsters have brought it upon themselves otherwise they would not have to concede 30% of your future pension benifits - right ! We are (Central States) 50% of future accruals in reductions. I don`t trust the company but i trust the teamsters even less for just being plain greedy and ignorant. This is the outcome of not minding the farm ! As far as i am concerned the teamsters dropped the ball and this is what we are dealing with. The Apwa has no track record but it seems that 100% of all $`s would be allocated towards our pension. The insurance would not be in the state is in now too ! We pay the union dues and they tell us what they want ? Until the drivers or hourly`s figure that out they can just keep bending over and taking it over and over and over :-(.......

How long have you been a teamster now?

What state is your insurance in? Do you pay for your insurance? If you do , who do you work for?

Bending over and taking it? If you work for parcel, how much do they have to pay you before you'll be satisfied? What kind of benefits do they need to fork over to you before you will be satisfied?

I'm all for workers rights and I support Unionized employees but you are getting a little too greedy.

Pension, Pension, Pension. That's all I hear from the Pro apwa's.
 

wildgoose

WILDGOOSE
The IAM teamsters are getting close to $10k a month for 30 years why are they so special ? How long have you been a teamster now? Somewhere between 20-25 ! I have Central States pension and insurance benefits. I hope you support reductions because thats what your getting whether you like it or not ! Well lets see about 60% of ups money goes out to other people. As for being satisfied about the way they do business no one should be happy when they tell you what you can or can`t upon retirement ? Do you like that ? I was in parcel for a lot longer than i wanted to. Now i do feeder work and its the only way to make retirement but they keep pushing back the age and the cost of insurance. Too many restrictions make every feeder and package driver have to keep working. I`m not greedy but i would like some stability what the teamsters proclaim and i really don`t see that !!!!!!! Like i said before the company has to step in to fix what the teamsters group should have been doing all along but there`s no accountability at the IBT ! It`s not over yet Buckethead.
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
I'm all for workers rights and I support Unionized employees but you are getting a little too greedy.

Pension, Pension, Pension. That's all I hear from the Pro apwa's.
This is not greed. This is protecting what we were promised.

In planning for retirement, people have several options: Social Security (unwise to rely soley on), 401K (requires individual sacrifice from gross paycheck), and then the pension, which was a viable retirement plan. The pension is a financial agreement. I work for UPS for X years and they give me X amount of money once I have put my time in. However, do to IBT's incompetence and their socialistic financial plan, the financial agreement which was to secure my quality of life for the final years of my life has been reduced. To retain quality insurance, I will be forced to fork over almost half of that shrinking monthly pension check. So how is this greed? How can you label as greed my attempt to protect what I was promised and what I have sacrificed and worked for during my years of service? My plans to enjoy the final years of my life with my beautiful spouse have been severely altered and you call me greedy? Save your labels for someone else.
 

wildgoose

WILDGOOSE
Here here Nospinzone
Its like they know the IBT is not taking care of our business properly but did they take a hit on Insurance-insurance-pay the BA`s or officers? I say not. If this guys car loan said we negotiated a 5% deal and afterwords called him back says the rates have changed we now need 15% he being telling the car dealer to shove it up the gazoo ! But when the teamsters do it its ok ? Go figure that is why i keep on pounding this idea into those who just think the teamsters is all that an a bag of chips ! They do like this scenario that they change rules after its negotiated. In the business world they don`t get away with it but in the teamsters world they can ?
 

1980

Well-Known Member
804 Pension

804 pension is not a total 30% roll back. You are frozen at your pension level that you accured till now,then any future years are cut @30%. ie you will receive 100 per year for all prior years of credit are . Future years will be @ 66.7 per year. PENSION REFORM LAWS CAUSED THIS, PLANS WERE FRONT LOADED.THE PENSION REFORM ACT MAKES THIS PRACTICE NOW IMPOSSIBLE.Hence the roll back. Company sits on most ,if not all pension boards, so dont blame the teamsters.The rules were changed while the game was being played. That and bankrupt companies and poor investment returns due to very low interest and bond rates for the past 5 years.:w00t:
 

wildgoose

WILDGOOSE
Re: 804 Pension

804 pension is not a total 30% roll back. You are frozen at your pension level that you accured till now,then any future years are cut @30%. ie you will receive 100 per year for all prior years of credit are . Future years will be @ 66.7 per year. PENSION REFORM LAWS CAUSED THIS, PLANS WERE FRONT LOADED.THE PENSION REFORM ACT MAKES THIS PRACTICE NOW IMPOSSIBLE.Hence the roll back. Company sits on most ,if not all pension boards, so dont blame the teamsters.The rules were changed while the game was being played. That and bankrupt companies and poor investment returns due to very low interest and bond rates for the past 5 years.:w00t:
The company of UPS didn`t start our pension hence its ok now ? Maybe in simplier terms for those who don`t understand ! If your bank ran you savings and checking like the teamsters you would still stay with them ? If your kid went to school and the teacher told you and your spouse your son is doing good on his own so she spends more time on the delinquent and slower kids ? By the way the teacher got a better pension and insurance and pay ! Would you keep your kid in that school ? Hell noooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!! Teamsters is looking out for their best interest since Hoffa has been elected. He locked up the pension with his buddies in Central States so he guarantees himself a job.
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
Re: 804 Pension

Company sits on most ,if not all pension boards, so dont blame the teamsters.
I love this analogy. Yes, it's true, UPS now has representation of one seat on most pension boards. However, that wasn't always the case. The board is 1/2 company reps (all companies not just UPS) and 1/2 Teamster officials. So how is it that the Teamsters don't get at least 1/2 the blame? I know you won't believe me since I'm in managment, but do this. Bring to your financial planner what UPS has put in for your retirement over the years. Then ask him based on this amount of savings how much you should be able to get in an annuity from this money. I believe you will find it is way way way more then what you will be receiving from the Teamsters pension fund. If UPS put in all that money for your pension and you are not receiving what your financial planner says is a reasonable return from that money. You should ask yourself where did the money go. I'll give you a hint. UPS didn't take the money back.
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
Re: 804 Pension

I love this analogy. Yes, it's true, UPS now has representation of one seat on most pension boards. However, that wasn't always the case. The board is 1/2 company reps (all companies not just UPS) and 1/2 Teamster officials. So how is it that the Teamsters don't get at least 1/2 the blame? I know you won't believe me since I'm in managment, but do this. Bring to your financial planner what UPS has put in for your retirement over the years. Then ask him based on this amount of savings how much you should be able to get in an annuity from this money. I believe you will find it is way way way more then what you will be receiving from the Teamsters pension fund. If UPS put in all that money for your pension and you are not receiving what your financial planner says is a reasonable return from that money. You should ask yourself where did the money go. I'll give you a hint. UPS didn't take the money back.

You're making the same financial error that almost everyone else is when it comes to evaluating the return UPSers should get on the money UPS contributes to the Teamsters-sponsored pension plans. You are assuming the money is automatically the property of the UPSers in whose name it was contributed. In fact, it isn't. At least not until each UPSer "earns" it by qualifying under the various plan provisions.

In effect, UPSers must earn their pension benefits twice. First, they earn the money as part of their total compensation package, and UPS contributes the money to the fund based on hours worked. But the contributions have strings attached. So secondly, the UPSer must qualify under the various rules of the pension plan and "earn" the right to claim those funds as his own in the form of a future pension benefit. The many UPSers who never achieve Vesting Status, for example, may have had up to $50.000 (very rough estimate) contributed on their behalf, but not a single penny of it is theirs, because they failed to "earn" the five years of Vesting Status that is necessary to claim the funds. Other UPSers will for various reasons fail to qualify for Early Retirement or Disability Retirement, or Thirty-And-Out Retirement, etc. because they didn't last long enough at UPS to pass the necessary milestones. All monies not "earned" in the second sense are forfeited to the fund. Period.

For all I know, the pension funds may get the same rate of return on their money as the financial advisor you mention. Maybe they both use the same, or a comparable, Wall Street firm. But if the UPSer's money in the pension fund has strings attached, the UPser may have to settle for only a portion of the money, or none at all.

It's like when a rich uncle promises to remember you in his will. He invests "your" money wisely during his lifetime but then you discover at the Reading Of The Will that you only get the money if you marry a redhead, or move to a certain State, or go into a specific line of business. Some scholarships have various non-academic requirements attached to them as well. If you don't qualify, you don't qualify. You forfeit the money. Period. When you, or UPS, knowingly forfeit money, it's not appropriate to carry on as if the money was somehow wrongly taken from you.

It's unfair to compare an unrestricted sum of money to a restricted sum of money. Rightly or wrongly, UPS knowingly sent the money to a fund with serious restrictions attached. You can't just ignore those restrictions and pretend the money is yours to take out and invest on your own.

Incidently, regardless of how many UPS executives are Trustees of the various pension plans, all Employer Trustees are endorsed by UPS (and by every other participating employer as well.) Read the pension article in each regional supplement and you will see that UPS ratifies the Employer Trustees as their own, and ratifies all legal actions taken by them, past and future. Here in New England it's Supplement Article 69 - Pension Fund, (and likewise for Article 68 - Health & Welfare.)
 
J

JonFrum

Guest
Guys,
Let's clarify one thing that you don't seem to understand. Your pension program is taking a hit because of how it is set up and who draws off of it. UPS meets their obligation of depositing money on your behalf into the Teamster pension fund and then the Teamster pension fund takes 60% of the money that UPS put in for you and dishes it out to non-UPS teamsters who are also in the multi-employer fund, the other 40% is what you will actually earn from the fund. No matter what anyone else may say, that is the plain fact! UPS has nothing to do with the problems with your fund.

Please see my lengthy discussion of the entire UPS/Teamsters pension situation, where in all will be made clear, and wisdom will descend upon you. Merry Christmas to all.
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/ups-subsidizing-non-ups-pensions.27725/
 

18wheelbrownie

Well-Known Member
sorry the article is not listed on the webpage you would have to look for it in the archives but it is on the tdu web sight.

Teamsters for a Democratic Union
 

Bill

Well-Known Member
You're not counting only on your Pension for retirement are you?

Here's some more questions, Would you be better off without the IBT. Maybe staying non Union? Are you saying that there's another alternative, I mean, that has a track record or that has represented members to get feedback from? Who is going to put the train back on the right track? Apwa?
Staying with the Teamsters is waiting for a train wreck to happen. This is the direction that the Teamsters are headed in. The APWA may be a start up union, but at this point, we have no choice if you still want to be represented. This will cut our losses now and give us a fresh start. This is the only viable solution as the Teamsters have none. All they can do is keep cutting the medical and pension benefits to fix this problem. Meanwhile, the Teamster leaders have not taken any cuts themselves. Check out the website: The Center for Union Facts and see for yourself. Take a look at the salaries they are receiving. You are working hard, paying your union dues each week, and getting nothing in return. Do you like supporting these Teamster fatcats?
 
Staying with the Teamsters is waiting for a train wreck to happen. This is the direction that the Teamsters are headed in. The APWA may be a start up union, but at this point, we have no choice if you still want to be represented. This will cut our losses now and give us a fresh start. This is the only viable solution as the Teamsters have none. All they can do is keep cutting the medical and pension benefits to fix this problem. Meanwhile, the Teamster leaders have not taken any cuts themselves. Check out the website: The Center for Union Facts and see for yourself. Take a look at the salaries they are receiving. You are working hard, paying your union dues each week, and getting nothing in return. Do you like supporting these Teamster fatcats?

Look at your check and compare it to some other poor drivers, or truck drivers paycheck for that matter and tell me you're getting nothing in return for your union dues. Pretty sad, greed is truly taking over.
 

any122

adirondack man
Look at your check and compare it to some other poor drivers, or truck drivers paycheck for that matter and tell me you're getting nothing in return for your union dues. Pretty sad, greed is truly taking over.
I think your dad is probably a retired teamster and is telling you to stick with the teamsters.Somebody is misleading you or your just stupid!Wake up junior the teamsters our rapeing you in the daylight.It's time for change and the time is now!Quit paying your dues and join the APWA the union that will represent only UPS and UPS only all UPS money will goto UPS only employees.That is the only smart thing to do!Stop paying for gold and getting no return or our you a fool or just feeling that giving your money away is the kind thing to do?Thats what your doing as a teamster member.If you think greed is taking over then you shouldn't be worried about taking a pay cut or having to pay for some of your health care thats what you have to look forward to if you stay with the teamsters.You will see watch when they get done with the contract fool.A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
I agree the teamsters are not good for UPS. How would we get this ball rolling to join another union. Lets educate our fellow UPSers and make the fat cats have to work for themselves instead of living high on the hog off our blood and sweat. I don't care what their title is, no teamster official should make over $100,000 a year with multiple pensions while our dues and health care costs increase and our pensions are reduced. Kick their as--s out.
 
I think your dad is probably a retired teamster and is telling you to stick with the teamsters.Somebody is misleading you or your just stupid!Wake up junior the teamsters our rapeing you in the daylight.It's time for change and the time is now!Quit paying your dues and join the APWA the union that will represent only UPS and UPS only all UPS money will goto UPS only employees.That is the only smart thing to do!Stop paying for gold and getting no return or our you a fool or just feeling that giving your money away is the kind thing to do?Thats what your doing as a teamster member.If you think greed is taking over then you shouldn't be worried about taking a pay cut or having to pay for some of your health care thats what you have to look forward to if you stay with the teamsters.You will see watch when they get done with the contract fool.A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.

Your real side is coming out there any. Your childish insults show who you really are, your someone not to take seriously. Your now angry because we don't agree on an issue and you will call ME the fool, or stupid.

Just admit it, you will not stop with the Apwa. You will always want more. No matter how much you make or what kind of benefits you have it will never be enough. With you the grass will always be greener on the other side and like a head of cattle you will head right for it.
 
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