Overpayment on a grievance

[shatteredsky]

Hello All,
I have had something happen to me that I am having a lot of trouble trying to find out what my rights are. I am really hoping that someone out there can help.

I filed a large grievance against the company and won. Supervisors working of course. After a few days I received my check. I cashed it and spent the money on bills that day. 24 days later my division manager came to me and said that we had a problem. He said that they had overpaid me double of what they had agreed to. I told him that I didn't have the money and had spent it on bills. He told me that I needed to bring in my check book. I explained that he needed to speak to my union BA. He told me that the labor manager said that if I didn't have the money that I should go get a loan to pay them.

That was 3 weeks ago and I have not heard anything from either side nor have I received any formal paperwork. I'm confused and not sure what I should do or what my rights are. I am a part-timer and a member of the Local 104 Teamsters in Arizona.

Can anyone give me some direction? I read the contract and couldn't find anything that pertains to my situation. No one that i have talked to has ever seen anyone overpaid on a grievance.

Honestly I’m really pissed because I only won 20% of what I was originally asking for in the first place. Cheap Bastards!!

Thanks,
Overpaid

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I assume that you had no idea that you had been overpaid and cashed the check in good faith so I think UPS may be out of luck on this one.

Now, if your BA is in agreement with UPS that you were indeed overpaid, they may ask you to repay the overage on a weekly basis.

Let us know how this turns out.

 

[hurricanegunner]

And don't show them your checkbook! It's none of their business what is in your checkbook. If they do end up getting some of the money back, they can take it out of future checks, as said above.

 

[Diego]

Also the amount to be paid back per week?? You should be able to set that yourself, what ever amount you fell comfortable with. Not your mistake. If you have to. Keep eye on your check they might slip it in and not tell you. Fight that and file for incorrect pay and they have only a few days before you get even more money.

 

[steeltoe]

Tell your center manager that you need to file for this overpayment, and expect additional backpay for their additional mistake. The contract only states that if the paycheck is incorrect by a certain amount. It does not state whether it is a shortage or overage, just that the check is incorrect.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Honestly I’m really pissed because I only won 20% of what I was originally asking for in the first place. Cheap Bastards!!

Shattered, you indicated they only paid you 20% of what you originally grieved, but they paid you the equivalent of 40% (twice what you won). So you must have known at some point you were overpaid. Mistakes happen on both sides, when UPS makes a mistakes and shorts a driver, the driver can and should get his money he earned quickly per the contract. Here you had an overpayment and granted it took time to realize it, but you have money that's not yours. UPS will get the money back, perhaps not all at once from you, but surely over a period of time. It's funny, I did Payroll a while back. We got adjustment requests routinely for underpayments, but I only got one for overpayment (and that came from a FT on road supv on his paycheck). Errors can occur, but it seems many people act like if the company errs against them, they are trying to screw the employee and get the underage corrected ASAP. If the company errs and gives them extra money, then they think they hit the jackpot and doesn't have to say anything about it. Usually they try to justify it that they "probably" got screwed before, so it makes them even.

 

[rocket man]

FILE ANOTHER GRIVANICE that you got over paid. buy the time they get around to settle it you say no. I Withdraw this grivance.

 

[bubsdad]

Here, they have 90 days to bring it to your attention that you were overpaid. If they don't notify you within the 90 day period you don't have to pay it back but if they do it within 90 days you have to.

 

[anonymous6]

Here, they have 90 days to bring it to your attention that you were overpaid. If they don't notify you within the 90 day period you don't have to pay it back but if they do it within 90 days you have to.

doesn't it bother anyone that there is nothing in writing? I think the OP is right to confer with his BA over this before doing anything.

 

[ol'browneye]

Shattered, you indicated they only paid you 20% of what you originally grieved, but they paid you the equivalent of 40% (twice what you won). So you must have known at some point you were overpaid. Mistakes happen on both sides, when UPS makes a mistakes and shorts a driver, the driver can and should get his money he earned quickly per the contract. Here you had an overpayment and granted it took time to realize it, but you have money that's not yours. UPS will get the money back, perhaps not all at once from you, but surely over a period of time. It's funny, I did Payroll a while back. We got adjustment requests routinely for underpayments, but I only got one for overpayment (and that came from a FT on road supv on his paycheck). Errors can occur, but it seems many people act like if the company errs against them, they are trying to screw the employee and get the underage corrected ASAP. If the company errs and gives them extra money, then they think they hit the jackpot and doesn't have to say anything about it. Usually they try to justify it that they "probably" got screwed before, so it makes them even.

Our center management hates filing payroll adjustments. My co-worker pointed out an error on his paycheck, that was in his favor, to his on road sup and the sup told him "Don't worry about it. Next time you get shorted don't complain! It will all even out."

And the justification is not "probably" got screwed before, it's "definately" been screwed before!

 

[raceanoncr]

I filed a large grievance against the company and won. Supervisors working of course. After a few days I received my check. I cashed it and spent the money on bills that day. 24 days later my division manager came to me and said that we had a problem. He said that they had overpaid me double of what they had agreed to. I told him that I didn't have the money and had spent it on bills. He told me that I needed to bring in my check book. I explained that he needed to speak to my union BA. He told me that the labor manager said that if I didn't have the money that I should go get a loan to pay them.

Honestly I’m really pissed because I only won 20% of what I was originally asking for in the first place. Cheap Bastards!!

Thanks,
Overpaid

Well, Shattered, you've gotten some advice here, good and maybe some not-so-good.

If the company overpaid you on the grievance, if it can be proven, then that's just like getting overpaid on your payroll check, the company will go after you. It is unfortunate that you already spent all the money on bills.

One thing that's been asked here: Were you aware of the overpayment when you were handed your money? Here, when I've won grievances, I was always told the amount or the time that the amount was going to cover. (On a side note, one time I even had to tell them how to pay me because they couldn't find any records and I keep all of mine. Another good reason to keep a log of all your days activities: punch-in time, punch-out time, load condition, stops, pickups, etc.) If you knew right away, you should have told them right away.

On that, I've always pointed out an overage. In ALL cases, the supe or manager has said, "Forget it. It's too much hassle for us to fix". OK, but still, if it's a big number, I always hold out the overage just in case somebody over them gets antsy and wants to press it.

We and others on here keep bad-mouthing the company about integrity. Well, do we set the example? How do YOU feel about taking the extra money? Are you able to live with yourself? Are you willing to fight something that looks unfightable? Are you gonna come back here in a year or more joining in with us in the never-ending rant about how the company's lost intergrity?

Personally, I don't think it should be a matter of contract, it's a matter of what's right. If you can live with it, then so be it.

 

[shatteredsky]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the great responses. It does help. I'm really surprised on how many of you all responded. Let me answer a few of the questions.

(beentheredonethat)--The 20% was with the error--so I only won 10% of what I was asking. Sorry for the confusion.

(raceanoncr)--Concerning the integrity issue. I had no idea what the final amount was that was agreed upon was. I was not in the panel hearing. I have no idea how all that works and is calculated out. This was not a small $100 grievance. I had filed on the supervisor working for over 9 months. It came out to over 700 hours. The week after I filed they trained 4 people for the position. They knew they were in the wrong.

You think that an overpayment of double would not get past the labor board in the first place. I mean how many people did it go through before it came to me. What upsets me is that I was told to bring my checkbook in or go get a loan. I have not seen any kind documentation that tells me what I owe them what the original amount was supposed to be, payment plans, NOTHING.

This was not my error but yet I feel that I'm at fault.

(orangputeh)--Yes I agree NOTHING in writing. I talked to my BA and he has no clue. They said they have never seen anyone get double paid on a grievance. It has been two weeks now and I have not heard or seen anything from UPS.

(bubsdad) Where did you get the 90 day figure from?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[yeldarb]

I was overpayed about a grand a couple years ago. I brought it to their attention. It was over a course of about 2 months. They gave me the option to pay it in a lump sum, or 50.00 a week for 20 weeks. I chose the latter.

 

[bubsdad]

(bubsdad) Where did you get the 90 day figure from?


[/COLOR]

That came from our chief steward on a similar issue. Driver was determined to have been overpaid and he brought it to my attention. I talked to the chief and he told me the company had 90 days to correct it. The popular feeling was that he wasn't overpaid because the vacation time was earned in feeders but paid at hub rate. That's why everyone just told the driver to keep silent, (members of management even told him this). IMO if you know you have been overpaid you have an obligation to bring it to someone's attention. If you were underpaid you surely would. If you bring it to the company's attention and they do nothing so be it. The contract states that if you notify the employer in writing your liability ceases within 5 days.

 

[Dustyroads]

Many years ago I was overpaid on a vacation check. I reported it immediately to my center manager and to the sup that did the payroll submissions. They told me that they'd check with the central payroll department, and the next day they said I was mistaken, that I hadn't been overpaid. I explained how I was overpaid, in fact an extra check had been cut. Well, I don't know if you've ever had any dealings with the folks in payroll, but they don't make mistakes. They indicated after the second request that I wasn't bright enough to understand it, and that no error had been, or even could have been made. The last thing payroll said was, "end of subject".

 

[Mike23]

That came from our chief steward on a similar issue. Driver was determined to have been overpaid and he brought it to my attention. I talked to the chief and he told me the company had 90 days to correct it. The popular feeling was that he wasn't overpaid because the vacation time was earned in feeders but paid at hub rate. That's why everyone just told the driver to keep silent, (members of management even told him this). IMO if you know you have been overpaid you have an obligation to bring it to someone's attention. If you were underpaid you surely would. If you bring it to the company's attention and they do nothing so be it. The contract states that if you notify the employer in writing your liability ceases within 5 days.

Absolutely because UPS ALWAYS immediately checks into you being underpaid...please note the sarcasm in this post...

 

[happybob]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the great responses. It does help. I'm really surprised on how many of you all responded. Let me answer a few of the questions.

(beentheredonethat)--The 20% was with the error--so I only won 10% of what I was asking. Sorry for the confusion.

(raceanoncr)--Concerning the integrity issue. I had no idea what the final amount was that was agreed upon was. I was not in the panel hearing. I have no idea how all that works and is calculated out. This was not a small $100 grievance. I had filed on the supervisor working for over 9 months. It came out to over 700 hours. The week after I filed they trained 4 people for the position. They knew they were in the wrong.

You think that an overpayment of double would not get past the labor board in the first place. I mean how many people did it go through before it came to me. What upsets me is that I was told to bring my checkbook in or go get a loan. I have not seen any kind documentation that tells me what I owe them what the original amount was supposed to be, payment plans, NOTHING.

This was not my error but yet I feel that I'm at fault.

(orangputeh)--Yes I agree NOTHING in writing. I talked to my BA and he has no clue. They said they have never seen anyone get double paid on a grievance. It has been two weeks now and I have not heard or seen anything from UPS.

(bubsdad) Where did you get the 90 day figure from?

Thanks again everyone.

Hey all, this is a real good one, that just got better. He wasn't overpaid on the grievance. He was underpaid! Why? Did he agree to accept less than what he grieved for? The uniuon has no right in telling a member he must accept less than he grieved for. File another grievance. State in the grievance that you DID NOT AGREE to a reduction in the amount you filed for. That's why you havn't heard anything in weeks about this. They still owe you the other 80%. Your BA can not, without your concent, agree to a reduction in the amount you sought. O.k. So here is the best solution for the entire thing. Go to the manager that told you to bring in your check book. The reason he said that was so you could write as check for the amount they want, not to look at your ledger. Tell the manager that if he persists in the matter that you will file another grievance to get the remainder of what is still owed on the original grievance, and tell him you DID NOT authorize the BA to accept a lesser amount than what you grieved for. And be

 

[Fullhouse]

Hey all, this is a real good one, that just got better. He wasn't overpaid on the grievance. He was underpaid! Why? Did he agree to accept less than what he grieved for? The uniuon has no right in telling a member he must accept less than he grieved for. File another grievance. State in the grievance that you DID NOT AGREE to a reduction in the amount you filed for. That's why you havn't heard anything in weeks about this. They still owe you the other 80%. Your BA can not, without your concent, agree to a reduction in the amount you sought. O.k. So here is the best solution for the entire thing. Go to the manager that told you to bring in your check book. The reason he said that was so you could write as check for the amount they want, not to look at your ledger. Tell the manager that if he persists in the matter that you will file another grievance to get the remainder of what is still owed on the original grievance, and tell him you DID NOT authorize the BA to accept a lesser amount than what you grieved for. And be

Looks like the BA and UPS may have a problem with the NLRB if this guy pushes for it!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

The union pocketed the other 80%.

P.S. happyBob, I had this happen working in ENE, Local 25.

 

[happybob]

Please don't ever accuse the union of pocketing that money, unless you can prove it, that's a very serious charge.
The member has to make the decision of what's in his/her best interest. As the above poster mentioned, the NLRB would love to get a hold of something like this. One has to understand the reasoning behind a BA wanting to settle these type grievances, and after it was explained to me I settled some of mine at a reduced amount. That choice was given to me.
The cost of putting on a case at the panel is not born by just UPS, it also costs the union quite a bit of money as well, any yes, we do pay a decent amount of dues to help pay these costs, but saving the union money isn't a bad thing. It is the MEMBERS choice. If a BA doesn't ask the member to accept a reduced amount, the member has to make a decision to stand up for his rights. Maybe this member should speak with the BA and let him know he's not happy with the reduced amount. Maybe if the BA explained things to the member, instead of just making the decision for him/her the whole thing wouldn't have been posted here.