Part-Timers are the Big Winners in this Contract

[InsideUPS]

Most of the discussion on here is about concessions by Drivers to increase benefits to Part-Timers.

Is that the way you read it?

Well Mr. award winning Hoaxster...first off, don't your arms ever get tired of "stirring"...or do you just set the mixer on automatic and let it go? Once again....excellent morning entertainment while I drink my coffee..

From the comments I am reading on UPSers.com, both UPS and the Teamsters should be concerned about passing this contract as written. Based on all the comments on UPSers, the part-time work force seems very concerned about their healthcare benefits. I'm surprised that UPS is actually allowing many of those comments to be posted.

I believe that both UPS and the IBT would be well served by quickly educating and satisfying the concerns of the part-timers in regards to their health care. Some still believe that they will be paying co-pays, etc.. I myself will be voting no if the healthcare package is substandard to the one we have in place now.

I have little doubt but what the loyal Hoffa Locals across the country will be doing their best to put a positive spin on this contract. (note....and once the contract is fully disclosed...that positive spin may be valid) For me personally, I do not like the "car salesman" approach to "selling" this contract. I like full undisclosed honesty and explanations. I don't like being treated like a "dumb Teamster". For example, if we had to make some concessions in order to make gains in other important areas.......just say it...and be truthful. I'm a big boy and can take the truth far better than I can tolerate masquerades. That said....if those concessions affect me or a great number of my co-workers adversely....then expect me to vote accordingly.

Orangputeh made a good comment above..

TDU is a big winner since the IBT has been treating us like mushrooms.

Not to get the TDU issue heated again...but lack of information is what drives people to their site... IBT members like myself want the whole story....the good and the bad... leaving out the so called negatives of the contract by the IBT reduces their credibility... I just can't believe they have not figured that out yet...

 

[InsideUPS]

I wonder if we get any kickbacks for opting out of Healthcare?

murphtrain.....you bring up an excellent point and concept.

I believe that the Union and/or UPS should have been given the option to part-timers to opt out of having healthcare with associated increased wages. The issue that I am not sure of is....whether or not Obamacare will allow opting out of healthcare...

 

[HEFFERNAN]

For the next 5 years, EVERYONE will be getting yearly raises and not paying for GREAT HEALTHCARE !!!!

hall promised you that you'd pay nothing for your healthcare !!! He delivered !!

Every full-timers concern was about harassment and over-working , and from what I see, that has not been addressed.

In 5 years, you are better off than you are now !! If it's not enough money for you, BUDGET OR GET ANOTHER JOB !!!

Until then, put the correct PAL label on the box and keep the misloads to ZERO

 

[InsideUPS]

For the next 5 years, EVERYONE will be getting yearly raises and not paying for GREAT HEALTHCARE !!!!

hall promised you that you'd pay nothing for your healthcare !!! He delivered !!

Every full-timers concern was about harassment and over-working , and from what I see, that has not been addressed.

Heffernan...I really want to believe what you say...however that "package" from hall is still in transit in my mind. Right now, it only appears to be a logical scan rather than a physical scan. (try explaining that to a customer).. Until it arrives at my doorstep unharmed and in it's original packaging....I may still have to file a claim. Also, I'm requesting a signature on that "delivery" from hall.. NO DR and run....if you know what I mean.

I personally do not see anything changing in regard to harassment and working long hours... regardless of contract language. That is something unfortunately that each and every driver has to handle in his or her own manner.

 

[Anonymous 10]

murphtrain.....you bring up an excellent point and concept.

I believe that the Union and/or UPS should have been given the option to part-timers to opt out of having healthcare with associated increased wages. The issue that I am not sure of is....whether or not Obamacare will allow opting out of healthcare...

Who wants to let partimers out or an opt out. I want all the money in one kiddy.

 

[Leadfarmer153]

I've been a part timer since 2007. Went to driving school and got my 30 in 90 in 07. Since then ive been working two jobs signing the few lists they've put up since then and out bid everytime.

I havent temp drove since 07 so my progression is small. The move from 3 years to 4 full scale really sucks.

At my center drivers retire leave and get fired and no new lists goes up. We file a grievance and it goes no where. Older drivers say it never use to be like this. A driver left and a new spot would open up.

Our wages are small for the work we do, but the health care is really really good.
But please don't say part timers are the winners. We've been getting screwed for years. The old 22.3 wording contract really did me in.

 

[bsmart]

We can't keep people in my center and I truly believe that its because the starting wage is way too low.... If it were around 11-12 then we would probably stood a better chance at keeping more of them. Then waiting a year and a half to get your family on the benefits....crazy! We had a guy just straight up leave right in the middle of the sort a couple months ago when he figured that out. He was good too!

 

[Mystakilla]

Full timers and part timers are not winners in this contract. I agree with whomever said 11-12 starting would be better then 10. UPS twenty years ago was a great place to try and get your foot into the foor because it was 'great pay' but times have caught up to that wage and that wage has not increased to keep up that 'great pay' after you get your foot in the door.

Opting out of your healthcare would be great for some but i would doubt you would want to pay the fee for Obamacare.

UPS isnt dumb, they soak alot of money into things that make or save them money, for them to get us out of the healthcare and let the union take care of it is only the beginning.
Everyone at some point needs healthcare, i dont want to give up what we have from them or change to someone else handling it even if it appears to be the same coverage and what not, cause eventually its going to be bad for us.

Im not really concerned so much of the wage increases BUT i dont see where they can say that this is a great and best contract ever, especially when its the first to be offered to its members.
Its like baseball, you never swing at the first pitch!!

 

[Dudeman]

10$ starting pay is fine IF we all get the bump because I don't know about ya'll but I'm going to be pissed if some kid off the street is making more then me after I've been with the company for 2+ years busting my balls. I'm voting a big NO and I'll get all my part time friends too as well if this is the case, and I think you full timers should stand up for us too because if I saw them pulling this **** on you all I'd have your back. I really want to see the contract though before I start a riot, just to make sure.

 

[InsideUPS]

.................
But please don't say part timers are the winners. We've been getting screwed for years. The old 22.3 wording contract really did me in.

Eric....you really have to know Hoaxster (the OP of this thread) to appreciate his intent. At least I think so...

 

[InsideUPS]

We can't keep people in my center and I truly believe that its because the starting wage is way too low....

UPS has no interest in keeping it's part-time work force.....or for that matter...it's full time work force. Think about it...

The longer you and I stay...the more we make....the more vacation we accumulate....the more we cost.....and...the more UPS loses..

Turnover is the lifeblood of UPS.....although not necessarily for mid to low level supervisors and managers within operations..

 

[InsideUPS]

Who wants to let partimers out or an opt out. I want all the money in one kiddy.

anonymous...I understand your point...collective and mandatory healthcare in one plan would most likely make it less expensive for us all.

What I was thinking is that if for example UPS paid $4500 for a part-timers healthcare (which was on our W-2s this year). Would that part-timer be more satisfied with that compensation in his or her paycheck rather than having to spend it on a healthcare package.. (thinking that he or she may be covered by a parent's health plan).

Once again....under the new Obamacare plan (which I know very little about), it may not even be possible to turn down healthcare. Also....most part-timers that I know do want and need healthcare coverage...

 

[Inthegame]

1)From the comments I am reading on UPSers.com, both UPS and the Teamsters should be concerned about passing this contract as written.

2)I believe that both UPS and the IBT would be well served by quickly educating and satisfying the concerns of the part-timers in regards to their health care. Some still believe that they will be paying co-pays, etc.. I myself will be voting no if the healthcare package is substandard to the one we have in place now.

3)I have little doubt but what the loyal Hoffa Locals across the country will be doing their best to put a positive spin on this contract. (note....and once the contract is fully disclosed...that positive spin may be valid) For me personally, I do not like the "car salesman" approach to "selling" this contract.

4) I like full undisclosed honesty and explanations. I don't like being treated like a "dumb Teamster". For example, if we had to make some concessions in order to make gains in other important areas.......just say it...and be truthful. I'm a big boy and can take the truth far better than I can tolerate masquerades. That said....if those concessions affect me or a great number of my co-workers adversely....then expect me to vote accordingly.

5)Orangputeh made a good comment above..



6)Not to get the TDU issue heated again...but lack of information is what drives people to their site... IBT members like myself want the whole story....the good and the bad... leaving out the so called negatives of the contract by the IBT reduces their credibility... I just can't believe they have not figured that out yet...

1)How can you warn about passing a contract "as written" that you haven't read? For being around as long as you have forming an opinion based on hearsay and conjecture lacks good sense.

2)It is a tentative agreement. When details are firm everyone will have the entire contract carefully explained and full texts sent to their homes if their too lazy to show up at a meeting, and you know this.

3) If this contract is as I've been told (from a member of the National Committee) it will sell itself.

4) You'll get full undisclosed honesty and explanations at the aforementioned contract explanation meetings, but the move to a four year progression is a concession. This will affect many PT to FT members but the start rate is higher so the hurt is lessened which should mitigate the "adverse" effect on a great number of your co-workers (UPS proposed a six year progression at the old rate).

5) Orangeputeh makes many good comments...

6) TDU spreads the previously mentioned conjecture and rumors. They are not at the table, they have never been at any table or negotiated any CBA. They live if a fairy tale land of what-ifs and how it should be. hall lives in reality. If IBT members want to believe the make-believe from TDU they're dumming themselves down. The so-called brownout is a conjured attempt from TDU to give themselves relevance. No one is being treated as a mushroom, the agreement is TENTATIVE. The IBT has a meeting scheduled next week to explain the entire Master to all UPS locals (some have no presense on the National Committee therefore are not in the inner loop). These locals will then explain the info to all our members. This is proper. The IBT has been forthright on this and you will have far more info on this contract in May of 2013 than you had in May of 1997.

I backed Ron Carey 100% in '97. So did hall. Times change, and bright people adapt.

 

[Anonymous 10]

1)How can you warn about passing a contract "as written" that you haven't read? For being around as long as you have forming an opinion based on hearsay and conjecture lacks good sense.

2)It is a tentative agreement. When details are firm everyone will have the entire contract carefully explained and full texts sent to their homes if their too lazy to show up at a meeting, and you know this.

3) If this contract is as I've been told (from a member of the National Committee) it will sell itself.

4) You'll get full undisclosed honesty and explanations at the aforementioned contract explanation meetings, but the move to a four year progression is a concession. This will affect many PT to FT members but the start rate is higher so the hurt is lessened which should mitigate the "adverse" effect on a great number of your co-workers (UPS proposed a six year progression at the old rate).

5) Orangeputeh makes many good comments...

6) TDU spreads the previously mentioned conjecture and rumors. They are not at the table, they have never been at any table or negotiated any CBA. They live if a fairy tale land of what-ifs and how it should be. hall lives in reality. If IBT members want to believe the make-believe from TDU they're dumming themselves down. The so-called brownout is a conjured attempt from TDU to give themselves relevance. No one is being treated as a mushroom, the agreement is TENTATIVE. The IBT has a meeting scheduled next week to explain the entire Master to all UPS locals (some have no presense on the National Committee therefore are not in the inner loop). These locals will then explain the info to all our members. This is proper. The IBT has been forthright on this and you will have far more info on this contract in May of 2013 than you had in May of 1997.

I backed Ron Carey 100% in '97. So did hall. Times change, and bright people adapt.

There you have it right there. Thanks

 

[InsideUPS]

1)How can you warn about passing a contract "as written" that you haven't read? For being around as long as you have forming an opinion based on hearsay and conjecture lacks good sense.

1A) Inthegame....apparently some of us are not "Inthegame" as much as yourself considering your connections with a member of the National Committee. MY INTENT pure and simple was to URGE UPS and the IBT to be CONCERNED about EDUCATING and INFORMING it's rank and file...in a timely manner. Comment number one was based on what IS POSTED on UPSers... I was not forming an opinion...only relaying information and misunderstanding that is for a fact.....on UPSers.com. The fact that there is a tentative agreement.....I believe it would be in "written" form.

2) It is a tentative agreement. When details are firm everyone will have the entire contract carefully explained and full texts sent to their homes if their too lazy to show up at a meeting, and you know this.

2A) When details are "firm"? I would hope that the details of the contract are firm at this time...if not...maybe we should have spent a little more time at the negotiating table before we agreed...to a "tentative agreement". As far as the contract being carefully explained....not really so certain about that. One thing many people seem to overlook.....each and every Local is different. Some do a better job than others..

3) If this contract is as I've been told (from a member of the National Committee) it will sell itself.

3A) Your connections to a member of the National Committee can be both beneficial and detrimental to your thinking based on friendship, loyalty, etc.. I have NO DOUBT but what a member of the National Committee would say that the contract would "sell it self". I once had a Toyota salesman tell me that he doesn't have to do a thing to sell a Toyota... I walked away and purchased another brand elsewhere. That was before all the recalls and competition.... and before we go there....I purchased a car made in Ohio.

4) You'll get full undisclosed honesty and explanations at the aforementioned contract explanation meetings, but the move to a four year progression is a concession. This will affect many PT to FT members but the start rate is higher so the hurt is lessened which should mitigate the "adverse" effect on a great number of your co-workers (UPS proposed a six year progression at the old rate).

4A) Once again, there you go assuming that all Locals will give "full undisclosed honesty and explanations at the contract explanation meetings". Not ALL Locals are loyal Hoffa backers...not all Locals provide the same level of concern, service, and honesty to it's members.... Let's pull every Locals LM-2's and see if all Locals are equal in their membership, their cost efficiency, etc..... Organization Query Page (Disclosure)

5) Orangeputeh makes many good comments...

5A) I agree...so let's not delete his comments when you quoted me.. You conveniently removed his comments because you did not agree with him but conveniently addressed them in the middle of your following long paragraph... Those are the types of "manuevers" that we get handed when our contract language is written. You should have just come out and said you didn't agree with him.......you know...be upfront and honest...instead of hiding it between a bunch of words..
Orangeputeh states "TDU is a big winner since the IBT has been treating us like mushrooms".. This goes back to my comments about the IBT and the manner in which they inform we "Rank and File"

6) TDU spreads the previously mentioned conjecture and rumors. They are not at the table, they have never been at any table or negotiated any CBA. They live if a fairy tale land of what-ifs and how it should be. hall lives in reality. If IBT members want to believe the make-believe from TDU they're dumming themselves down. The so-called brownout is a conjured attempt from TDU to give themselves relevance. No one is being treated as a mushroom, the agreement is TENTATIVE. The IBT has a meeting scheduled next week to explain the entire Master to all UPS locals (some have no presense on the National Committee therefore are not in the inner loop). These locals will then explain the info to all our members. This is proper. The IBT has been forthright on this and you will have far more info on this contract in May of 2013 than you had in May of 1997.

6A) TDU reports information. I like when I am given the opportunity to decide what information I read and what I choose to believe in. Last time I checked I'm in America... With logic like yours...."If IBT members want to believe the make-believe from TDU they're dumming themselves down".we would all be the same political party...the same religion.. etc.. So....just so I get this straight.... ONLY SMART people believe everything we are fed from our IBT leadership.. We should not question in any manner the information we are presented?

Possibly you could help me with current information on the TDU website: Is the following information conjecture or a rumor?:
"There will be a meeting for representatives from every local to review the proposed tentative agreement on May 7. Due to past legal victories, TDU will receive and make available to the members the national agreement and all supplements and riders at that time."

7) I backed Ron Carey 100% in '97. So did hall. Times change, and bright people adapt.

7A) So did I (back Ron Carey)....and I appreciated and admired hall performance. Times do change.....and intelligent people do and can adapt....BUT....they also ask questions....AND more importantly...are able to think for themselves...

 

[RealPerson]

InsideUPS person, I like the way you think... I have always been against this Brown out. There is No Sneak attack the Union is going to do, that needs to be kept secret. There is NO Information that will change the thinking between either side, it is Business for them. We NEED to know the Details LONG before a Vote, so we can work out all the scenarios of the contract. Does the Union have people who have studied Obama Care and have an idea if we will get taxed for having great insurance? OR OR Since they included the amount on our W-2's will the Gov now try to count that as Income???

 

[frivolous petty small.]

If the current part-timers do not get that $1.50 bump, you can bet that you will see them vote like never before. If the rest of the part-timers, 67% of the UPS Teamster work-force do not get that bump they will send the IBT a big NO vote. hall can bet on that!

If the existing pters don't get 1.50 in ninety days a new hire will make more than me. I hope I am misinformed.

 

[Inthegame]

1A) Inthegame....apparently some of us are not "Inthegame" as much as yourself considering your connections with a member of the National Committee. MY INTENT pure and simple was to URGE UPS and the IBT to be CONCERNED about EDUCATING and INFORMING it's rank and file...in a timely manner. Comment number one was based on what IS POSTED on UPSers... I was not forming an opinion...only relaying information and misunderstanding that is for a fact.....on UPSers.com. The fact that there is a tentative agreement.....I believe it would be in "written" form.



2A) When details are "firm"? I would hope that the details of the contract are firm at this time...if not...maybe we should have spent a little more time at the negotiating table before we agreed...to a "tentative agreement". As far as the contract being carefully explained....not really so certain about that. One thing many people seem to overlook.....each and every Local is different. Some do a better job than others..



3A) Your connections to a member of the National Committee can be both beneficial and detrimental to your thinking based on friendship, loyalty, etc.. I have NO DOUBT but what a member of the National Committee would say that the contract would "sell it self". I once had a Toyota salesman tell me that he doesn't have to do a thing to sell a Toyota... I walked away and purchased another brand elsewhere. That was before all the recalls and competition.... and before we go there....I purchased a car made in Ohio.



4A) Once again, there you go assuming that all Locals will give "full undisclosed honesty and explanations at the contract explanation meetings". Not ALL Locals are loyal Hoffa backers...not all Locals provide the same level of concern, service, and honesty to it's members.... Let's pull every Locals LM-2's and see if all Locals are equal in their membership, their cost efficiency, etc..... Organization Query Page (Disclosure)



5A) I agree...so let's not delete his comments when you quoted me.. You conveniently removed his comments because you did not agree with him but conveniently addressed them in the middle of your following long paragraph... Those are the types of "manuevers" that we get handed when our contract language is written. You should have just come out and said you didn't agree with him.......you know...be upfront and honest...instead of hiding it between a bunch of words..
Orangeputeh states "TDU is a big winner since the IBT has been treating us like mushrooms".. This goes back to my comments about the IBT and the manner in which they inform we "Rank and File"



6A) TDU reports information. I like when I am given the opportunity to decide what information I read and what I choose to believe in. Last time I checked I'm in America... With logic like yours...."If IBT members want to believe the make-believe from TDU they're dumming themselves down".we would all be the same political party...the same religion.. etc.. So....just so I get this straight.... ONLY SMART people believe everything we are fed from our IBT leadership.. We should not question in any manner the information we are presented?

Possibly you could help me with current information on the TDU website: Is the following information conjecture or a rumor?:
"There will be a meeting for representatives from every local to review the proposed tentative agreement on May 7. Due to past legal victories, TDU will receive and make available to the members the national agreement and all supplements and riders at that time."



7A) So did I (back Ron Carey)....and I appreciated and admired hall performance. Times do change.....and intelligent people do and can adapt....BUT....they also ask questions....AND more importantly...are able to think for themselves...

Inside, There's alot to answer and in an attempt at brevity (which I'm confident you'll accuse me of some kind of maneuver) I may miss something.
1A) I don't look at UPS'ers for info from or about the IBT. That seems couterproductive in labor issues so I don't waste the time. The "Tentative Agreement" is in written form and will be circulated at the meeting on May 7th.
You're right I have connections most don't, but I've cultivated those connections by being active in my local for a long time, so those "connections" might be available to those that engage.
2A) I was refering to H&W changes and the new modified CS C6 plan. Those changes will be explained at the mtg May 7th. If anyone is in a local that gives lousy explanations, elect a new board.
3A) Thanks for the insult, but my eyes are wide open. Don't worry about a friendship tainting what I believe. I read UPS's proposals from two weeks ago. To produce this "Tentative" agreement from that steaming pile of excrement impressed me. Nice job with the car made in Ohio, but why were you even looking at a Toyota?
4A) Local Unions have a duty to provide this info, and members have a duty to elect officers who fulfill their duties.
In a previous post, you've mentioned you've met Bill Lichtenwald. If you have ANY question on any of this he will be glad to speak to you at anytime. (He's on the Committee) LM2's have little to do with this discussion, but yet you distractively posted the link. How do LM2's let anyone know if the contract will be explained properly?
5A) I was responding to your post, not Orangeputeh's. I addressed his point in my post. Oddly though, you criticized me for "conveniently" not addressing his comments but then accused me of addressing his comments later in the post? Whew...Senseless. I'm guessing most readers with a modicum of brain tissue understood I'm not a big TDU fan.
6A) Swimming in murky water here cowboy...you can be/do/support anything you want. Pretty sure you're convoluting my statement, a tactic modeled well by the editors at TDU, but actually I think smart people should question everything, ESPECIALLY anything written by the wannabe, knownothings from TDU.
I haven't seen what you state TDU posted about meeting dates but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then so maybe it's accurate...But as I clearly stated you'll receive the agreement in your mailbox. If TDU claims receiving information every UPS'er gets as a victory, heaven help us.
7A) Agreed

Inside, I'm not battling you. I want what you want...a good deal for our people, and I don't think TDU provides that. If I can get any answers not posted PM me and I'll see what I can do.

 

[PT Stewie]

If the existing pters don't get 1.50 in ninety days a new hire will make more than me. I hope I am misinformed.

I would think if you are in progression you would get the bump. But wait and see the legal people are working on the details.

 

[InsideUPS]

Inside, I'm not battling you. I want what you want...a good deal for our people, and I don't think TDU provides that. If I can get any answers not posted PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Inthegame....agreed...no battles here either... just a spirited exchange of thoughts and ideas from members of different Locals across the country. I think many of the frustrations expressed on BC originate from the level of support we do or do not receive from our Local Union representatives... When we don't get information locally....we turn to the Internet....which as you know leads us to one of four places... (BC, TDU, UPSers, and Teamster.org).

Most rank and file are going to evaluate how this agreement affects them personally. RARELY does anyone take the effort or really care how it may affect others. hall and James Hoffa have the added burden of how this contract affects ALL Teamsters...not just UPSers.. As I mentioned many times before....I don't envy ANY BA or Union representative...being a steward is challenging enough at times.

P.S. I considered a Toyota only because they were being made in Indiana...