So i am taking the path of darkness at UPS. I turned in my letter for full time supervision and got a go ahead on my evaluation so all that is left is the in-box, the 100 question test, and the interview. My main goal is to sit at Scott's desk one day. My question is, and maybe this should be a poll, but how high of a probability is it that i can fix problems? I mean could i really make employees like the dispatch? Enjoy their management team? Actually want to do their job correctly? I'm young (22) and have done pre-load, local sort, and driving, so I've got a taste of everything and i know it's not much but i figured i needed to start moving up as soon as possible. I need to bring back the idealisms that Jim Casey brought. I need to serve my workers. I need to use the simplest tools possible to do the job. And need to pay attention to my job and not work to satisfy the people above me, just do my job efficiently and expertly. Above all, use common sense. So what do you think?
Path of the Dark Side
- Thread starter Theichii
- Start date
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Fool
P
pickup
Guest
who am I to tell someone to drop his idealism? If the idealism is indeed unrealistic, life will tear it down , no need for me to do it.
All I am going to say, if Jim Casey got into a time machine from the 1950s and landed in our time and lost his wallet and needed a job, I figure he would apply to ups and I figure he would last 4 days before he would be frustrated or fired.
Good luck to you sir and may the force be with you!
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
fool was a little bit harsh...you have a one in a million chance to really change things
at least i have that one. I went through high school dreaming of UPS (sick, i know). I wrote papers in school about the ethos of the company, the spirit of camaraderie, that i read about in business profiles and books about the company. Now I've been working here for a year and half and nothing seems to be like it was in the books. The system is missing something and I'm not exactly sure what it is, but i will use my unwavering IDEALISM to find out what it is. And i at least have one chance, even if it is in a million.
ups767mech
Well-Known Member
Another young person who thinks theyu can change the world. They are going to chew you up and spit you out worse that they do to the unionized.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
If the company is lacking idealism fundamentally, I don't believe that someone at the bottom of the chain is going to be able to change that unless they themselves make it to the top. The company heavily relies upon poor ethics and unrealistic assignments and expectations, therefore promoting someone who disagrees with these principles doesn't seem very realistic.
But what do I know, I'm just a lowly slave in the wheel.
But what do I know, I'm just a lowly slave in the wheel.
old levi's
blank space
The phone will ring. You will answer it. You will implement what you are told to do even though you know it's wrong. You will do this ad infinitum untill you either have no soul remaining ,or cannot live with what you have become and resign. Good luck.
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
Hard to disagree with that one. UPS isn't the only corporation suffering from this mentality and modus operandi. Few and far between are the organizations that will allow their managers to have autonomy and make decisions. Most are now made from the Ivory Tower to the point of micro-management. When CompUSA was going under, I found a typical 'what went wrong" article and one thing was the fact that employees were not allowed to make on-the-spot decisions. They had to call a manager for anything. It was just one thing that brought the company down.
UPS will take that path if it doesn't straighten out and fly right. -Rocky
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
I believe that you can do this, but, I don't think you'll achieve your goal by doing it that way. I think you'll need to go undercover. Sort of like a mole. You'll have to blend in, do as they do, while working your way to the top. Then after all of those years, you just may find yourself way up there, in that very seat you long for.
At this point, you can shake of all of the dirt, and reveal the true you, if that true you still exists.
Good Luck!
At this point, you can shake of all of the dirt, and reveal the true you, if that true you still exists.
Good Luck!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Ah, the idealism of youth. I can (barely) remember when I also had idealistic thoughts such as yours. However, reality crept in, first with marriage and then children, and thoughts of changing the world were replaced with the necessary day-to-day thoughts of life.
I have put my letter in on 3 occasions but not for the reasons that you gave here. I simply wanted more of a challenge and to take advantage of the degree that I had worked so hard to finish. Things did not work out and, with 20 years in, I have no desire to pursue mgt at this time. The role of mgt, especially at the center level, has changed such that they are merely relayers of information and instructions from those above (and from those above and so on) with little or no ability to implement any significant change. Sure, they can move a stop from one driver to another, or perhaps move a pickup so that the customer is better served, but meaningful change is not within their means. My on-car rode with me on Thursday, which is policy after an injury, and we talked about this, as he was a driver for 15 years before crossing over, and he said that if he to do it again he would not have made the move. The only positive he could draw from the change was the fact that he used his stock to pay for his kid's college--beyond that, it has not been worth it.
Do not lose that idealism but perhaps temper it with realism. Good luck.
I have put my letter in on 3 occasions but not for the reasons that you gave here. I simply wanted more of a challenge and to take advantage of the degree that I had worked so hard to finish. Things did not work out and, with 20 years in, I have no desire to pursue mgt at this time. The role of mgt, especially at the center level, has changed such that they are merely relayers of information and instructions from those above (and from those above and so on) with little or no ability to implement any significant change. Sure, they can move a stop from one driver to another, or perhaps move a pickup so that the customer is better served, but meaningful change is not within their means. My on-car rode with me on Thursday, which is policy after an injury, and we talked about this, as he was a driver for 15 years before crossing over, and he said that if he to do it again he would not have made the move. The only positive he could draw from the change was the fact that he used his stock to pay for his kid's college--beyond that, it has not been worth it.
Do not lose that idealism but perhaps temper it with realism. Good luck.
S
speeddemon
Guest
You have just exchanged your life for Brown slavery. Rest In Peace.
trplnkl
555
Theichii,
I am sorry to say, you are not going to get many thumbs up from this site. The majority of the folks here are hourly and most take a deem view of management.
I was told by a center manager many years ago that one of first things they looked for in the letter of intent was the overall attitude of, " I want to make a difference". They look for people that not only want to make that difference but those that are willing to, "Do whatever it takes". Young men and women that are enthusiastic, full of spirit and self confidence, people that will put the company first in all their actions. These are the ones they want to promote, yet the company structure does not allow someone on the lower rungs of the corporate ladder to make a difference.
You state that you wonder if you can make people like the dispatch, that is a lofty goal. IMO, if you were allowed to adjust dispatches to any reasonable degree, the company would have to allow you to add more routes on road daily and it has been proven time and time again that the men and women just to rungs above you will not let that happen. Trust me, there are very few drivers that you can make like the dispatch without lowering the number of stops in the truck.
There are many other areas that need improvement to bring us back to the idealistic views of Mr. Casey, most are as unreachable as the dispatch question. Take a good close look at your mangers and ft sups. How many years have they been in the positions they hold, do you admire them as stand up guys, do they make a difference? If they do make a difference, how do they do so? If they don't, why not?
If you go on with this plan, I suggest you decide what these management people do that you believe to be wrong and do everything you can to NOT do the same things. Do what you can to emulate the traits you admire.
Above all, never let them make you less of a person than you are.
Good Luck to you, you will need it.
I am sorry to say, you are not going to get many thumbs up from this site. The majority of the folks here are hourly and most take a deem view of management.
I was told by a center manager many years ago that one of first things they looked for in the letter of intent was the overall attitude of, " I want to make a difference". They look for people that not only want to make that difference but those that are willing to, "Do whatever it takes". Young men and women that are enthusiastic, full of spirit and self confidence, people that will put the company first in all their actions. These are the ones they want to promote, yet the company structure does not allow someone on the lower rungs of the corporate ladder to make a difference.
You state that you wonder if you can make people like the dispatch, that is a lofty goal. IMO, if you were allowed to adjust dispatches to any reasonable degree, the company would have to allow you to add more routes on road daily and it has been proven time and time again that the men and women just to rungs above you will not let that happen. Trust me, there are very few drivers that you can make like the dispatch without lowering the number of stops in the truck.
There are many other areas that need improvement to bring us back to the idealistic views of Mr. Casey, most are as unreachable as the dispatch question. Take a good close look at your mangers and ft sups. How many years have they been in the positions they hold, do you admire them as stand up guys, do they make a difference? If they do make a difference, how do they do so? If they don't, why not?
If you go on with this plan, I suggest you decide what these management people do that you believe to be wrong and do everything you can to NOT do the same things. Do what you can to emulate the traits you admire.
Above all, never let them make you less of a person than you are.
Good Luck to you, you will need it.
JustTired
free at last.......
First off....It is my opinion that anyone going into management should have a minimum of 5 years "on road". It takes at least that long to really have an understanding of what a driver has to deal with on a daily basis.
This is what the "system" is missing. The usual "present day candidate" for management seems to be young and lacking the work ethic it takes to understand what the job is and must be.
I'm not pointing a finger at you, as you may be sincere and not the norm. But in recent years, I've seen many a young person in way over their head when they take these positions and the lack of ability to adapt and/or learn has lead them to the door. Whether by choice or force.
However, having said that, give it a shot. The worst that can happen is that you will find yourself miserable and disenchanted...longing for the "good old days" and looking for new employment. Good Luck with whatever decision you make!
trplnkl
555
Theichii,
I was typing my response above when UpState posted his and didn't see it until I pressed the "Post" button.
I don't know how much you read on this site but UpState is one of the most optimistic drivers(not a slam or flame) you will ever read here. Do yourself a favor and re-read what he posted.
I was typing my response above when UpState posted his and didn't see it until I pressed the "Post" button.
I don't know how much you read on this site but UpState is one of the most optimistic drivers(not a slam or flame) you will ever read here. Do yourself a favor and re-read what he posted.
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Well said!
I agree, let us know what is going on, but don't wait a year, keep us updated along the way.
If you step back and get a look at the "big picture", you'll be able to see things clearly. There are many pro's and cons from each side. Have you made your list of pro's and con's or are you just deciding to jump in with your "idealism"?
I don't really like the idea of being put in this position. You've already made up your mind and are going to do this, not just thinking it over and asking for suggestions. Here's my "other" advice, besides what I posted above. Do you like what you see, as far as the mgmt where you are? Eventually you will be just like them, like it or not, believe it or not. You will do what they say, not what you think. MGMT is not an art. These people are told what to do by other people who are also told what to do.
Not trying to be a naysayer, just want you to see, clearly, what you're getting into. That's my piece, good luck.
NHDRVR
Well-Known Member
Since you are new to this company, a few years in UPS isn't anything, you are probably better off making this move now than you would be in ten years. Also, you are not the first, nor the last, that have good intentions when they choose to put on the tie.
The problem...
This machine eventually eats you alive, union/mgmt., and your positive attitude and intentions will soon be blowing in the wind. These 'idealisms' that Casey brought were simpler for him since he was top dog. You, with all due respect, are simply another guy at the bottom of the hill who will now have the thousand-yard-stare in about 2 years or so.
Be prepared for the inevitable burnout and the 'Why did I..." questions that will follow soon after.
