Paying for the the VAT next???

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Lue C Fur, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Healthcare will pass and taxes will be going up to help pay for it. So will the chosen one start a VAT? Other socialist countries do it and its a sneaky way to get taxes without you actually knowing that you are getting taxed.
  2. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    If the VAT Tax is socialist, then what does that make Republican Paul Ryan, one of the conservative up and coming darlings? Could "Socialist" Ryan and "Socialist" Messiah be working together in a new bi-partisan effort?

    Don't you just hate it when your own favorite party turns out to be working against ya! You didn't see that coming? Really?

  3. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    I would just like to know, what he means by "other socialist countries". Name me just a few countries that aren't socialist,
    so I get an idea of what you mean.
    Is it Turkey ? Only other country without healthcare for everyone ? And who else, a few African nations ?

    I would like to see you comparing the mighty USA with those countries.
  4. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    All politicians are liars and thieves its just some are better at hiding it then others. In the end you vote who you feel will do better for yourself or for the country or both. As far as my favorite party...i dont really have one but right now the lefty dems are on my shiat list.
  5. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Klein i understand that you have no problems paying higher taxes and taking care of freeloaders...i get it and im happy for you...that is why you love Canada. If you like you goverment taking control of everything that good for you. Im i dont like to take care of freeloaders and pay higher taxes and want the goverment to stay out of my that OK with you???
  6. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    The US government should have NEVER given tax free healthcare tax deductions to only Employers to employess that offer those bennies.
    In my opionen, your the one that was free-loading all these years. For all americans to subsidize you.
    And who really pays for your current healthcare bennies ? Not you !!! NOT UPS. It's the end consumer that pays for your healthcare.
    Not only that, but the end consumer price is now so high, that the USA can't compete globally anymore. Therfor no new jobs.
    Just look it up, last time the US had a trade surplus ! It's been a trade deficit for over a decade !

    As long as it still works for the greedy, keep it going, until the whole country goes bankrupt , right ?

    Those "freeloaders" , lot of them are self employed (look at any cab driver), some have pre-conditions. Can't get insurance (which by the way, they pay full price, not tax deductible like yours).
    The "real freeloaders" that are now or previous unemployed. Well, they just went to the ER, instead, costing an average of $535 per visit. Compared to $150 at a doctors office.
    Over 3 times the amount !!! You think they didn't get sick until now, and now you wonder that they will get more sick ?
    They can get sicker actually, more then 3 times as much, and still save the american people money.

    There are many people with more education and trades papers, certificates, college grads, etc, that have more then just a drivers licence, just didn't get into UPS, and are working for less, without bennies.
    You won a lucky draw.
    Think back on day 1, when you started at UPS :
    How happy you were to land a job with healthcare bennies. Probably so proud you told family and friends.
    Like winning a small lottery, isn't it ?
  7. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    You are so misinformed on your assumptions...are you hitting the bottle or the crack pipe?
  8. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Yeah ? How many times, have I seen part-timers posting here... they work for the health bennies.
    Well, guess what ? Thats comming to an end in the future.
    Either UPS has to pay them a fair wage, or you'll see a lot of them leaving.
    $8.50 an hr for heavy and fast lifting..... and working odd hours...
    Good luck finding people - UPS- !!!
  9. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Oh no...what will UPS do....Maybe outsource it to the illegals that our gooberment lets in and they will have all the free heath care and schooling for their rugrats...what a deal.

    Hey know that many of the part timers are young kids that are going to school/college that are under their parents health insurance? Also if someone is unhappy with a part time job that pays 8.50 then that is why you look for another job or get a better education to get a better job. Do you really think that everyone that works for UPS is a box kicker? You know some jobs actually require more than a highschool diploma? Usually those jobs pay better. I get the feeling you want to penalize people that make more money than you...are you jealous?
  10. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    The US will still have uninsured. I don't think working people will get free health insurance. UPS's hiring base is usually college students. Working odd hours in order to be available during school hours. Besides new hires don't get health insurance for a year anyway.
  11. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Thats part of the problem, no one really knows who will pay what, yet .
    But, I would assume part-timers on low wages would be paying less. But who knows ?
    As far as Lucifers claim of illegals getting free healthcare. I doubt that very much. Without a health insurance card, how would you get it ? Same as before. no change there.

    That means in your hub, you only got pre-loaders that have worked for less then a year ?
    We had everything, moms, the young, and the old.
    But , they do start off at $12 something per hr, plus they get a $500 retention bonus, after 6 mths. (atleast they used to).
    Probably part of the reason the drivers make less money here, - to give the preloaders more income.
    And they do work hard. I have unloaded trailers and loaded trucks. They deserve it.
    Preloader/sorter toprate as of Feb 1st, 2010 : $19.04 (top rate archievment after 30 months).
  12. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

  13. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Like I said, no change there.. except the legal americans can now see a doctor for far less tax dollars, then going to the ER.
    Not only do hospitals write it off on taxes, but they also raise rates for insurance companies to pay, (to make up for the lost expenses).
    But, lets say, as a Mexcian Citizen, which do have national healthcare, wouldn't hospitals get some sort of refund from Mexico ?

    For example, if I get sick in the US, while travelling. Canada health insurance will cover the cost what it would cost here. Not a dime more.
    So, about 50%. The other 50% I would need to pay myself, basically.
    Thats why we travel to the US with extra medical insurance... to cover those costs.
  14. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    The tax Paul Ryan supports more resembles the fair tax rather than a VAT. Under the proposed VAT system we will have both a VAT and an income tax. Under Paul Ryans proposal a consumption based tax replaces the income tax. Lets not also point out that a VAT is placed on products at every stage of production, while the proposed consumption tax is only placed at the retail level. Your attempt to make republicans seem like democrats here has failed.
  15. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Yes he is proposing a hybrid combination as the linked story in red sez as his VAT will apply purely on the business side in replacing the Corp. income tax. If you read his "Roadmap Plan" on page xi, his BCT (Business Consumption Tax) or a VAT replaces the corp, income tax with a VAT of 8.5%. Individuals will still pay the income tax although on a more simplified scale. Also Ryan is not opposed to universal healthcare coverage as is clearly expressed on page ii of the plan where he states,
    Democrats should rest easy that their favorite icons are going nowhere but like themselves Repubs are focused only on making these plans solvent and sustainable for the future. Why don't you "conservative republicans" drop the limited/smaller gov't thingy as your own words just come back to haunt you time and time again!

    Again, like all aspects of the FairTax, his is an attempt at revenue neutral which fails IMO to put the onness on gov't to ever cut spending or even worse to maintain a revenue neutral system no matter how big gov't wants to grow as per the size of GDP ratio. Inflate the currency putting a burden on poor and working people to jack up GDP value and now you can grow gov't as big as you like while making it sustainable and revenue neutral and even look fiscally restraining.

    Lue's point was so suggest that all who propose a VAT tax are socialist (as affirmed by the act of imposing the VAT Tax itself) so again my question is, what does this make Ryan? A hybrid VAT so he's a hybrid socialist? I'm not inclined to disagree with Lue's point concerning the VAT and State Socialism but I'm not ignoring that both sides support State Socialism in their own way either!

    Seems to me that Obama and the dems aren't the only ones having issues and kneejerk reactions when real transparency is involved!
  16. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Brett and Lue,

    Here's another excellent reason why I called out Ryan, therefore all republicans, when it comes to the socialist tag. The kid nails it!

  17. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    The kid doesn't even use the world socialism in its correct context.
  18. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Oh. The one where it's used to denegrate democrats?
  19. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    You smoke cigars? I think you're the winner!

    If you go by it's ethmology, the word social, Brett does have somewhat of an argument but then if he adapted to that use and framework, he'd be forced to stop using the word as a political boogeyman.