Please help..freaking out..husband fired for accident

[tieguy]

no way. the manager has had it out for my husband ever since my husband was hit head on 2 years ago (not work related) and had to take some time off for surgeries (fmla). the manager has told my husband on many occasions "your a liability" and is just not fair to him anymore. my husband is about 100% healthy now, and just needs the occasional follow up appointment. the mgr doesn't like him at all as I stated earlier. there is a group of about 6 drivers that this mgr has it in for for no good reason. the union rep told my husband that people call the 800 number on him everyweek and nobody can stand his tactics. this is a man who has been married 4 times and has had 3 heart attacks. not one driver who we have known has had anything nice to say about him in the 2 years he has been there. he is always in a bad mood, always.

my husband is in the process of writing out his grievances now. him and another driver family friend are working on it. I will post when he is done.

thanks again for all your replies

I'm surprised his steward let him wait. Its a real simple grievance to write.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Boys, quit hijacking this womans thread. If you want to start a thread on UPS turn over, the "post new thread" button is right there on top.

Now, on, or back to the accident.

My dear, you postedThat is a very serious charge to get a ticket for. Are you sure that is what the ticket said, or was it failure to yield? That could make a big difference.

As to your feelings about the center manager, we could care less. They can be total , or really nice guys, the feeling you get from them, or your husband gets from them is not part of the issue here.

Ahh unless you are not a full time driver, you are guaranteed a full days pay. Even if they take you off road after an accident.

Around here, you can not take disiplinary action against an hourly unless there is a shop steward present. As has been mentioned, once they have pronounced the punishment, any new evidence that is brought to light later on should be not considered.

Now, here is where I have a real problem with what you posted. I waited until now to see if any one else picked up on it.



First question, how did your husband get back to the center? Who took him. Now, you stated that they had it towed from his house.....???? The contract reads from the scene, not later on from his house. Was it hauled away from the scene or from his house? And again, where was your husband? Now, as easy as this is to verify, I can not believe a manager would lie like this.

Because see, you posted this later on

I find it interesting that the other driver and the center manager were the last two people to leave the scene. Where was every one else? Who continued your husbands route? How, again did your husband get home? Also, again, where was the cop. you stated you are in enforcement of some type. Does it not strike you as strange that the cop left the scene without all the accidnet being cleared? (that means all the vehicles moved off site)

Do what you want, but I would contact the other driver. I would apologize for the accident, find out how they doing. You want to be sincere in your concerne for them. You might also inquire if their car was fixed etc. Ask question, but not to pointed, leave them open to expand on their answers. Main thing you want to do is show the concern for them and their well being.



You keep repeating this statement. You also state that the fender was bent, and the tire flat. While I would have no idea on your accident, without further investigating, you do know that it takes quite a hit to take the tire off the rim. and that the impact on that rim and tire can cause serious damage to either the steering or the drive axle, causing the car to look just fine, but not be able to be driven? You state the driver refused the tow, changed the tire, but did they move the car? And where was the cop? They are to stay until the accident site is cleared, not leave before? The severity of the accident will be taken into consideration, as well as the potential for much greater damage and bodily injury.


Around here you prepay your insurance two months in advance. In other words, the money that the company pays for your insurance this week goes to pay the benifits in June. And if it is different where you are, you are still covered under cobra, as that is federal law I believe. Sounds like someone is jerking you around.
I disagree with the others. Dont open up a can of worms. Unless they think you are on something, they will not open it either. And if they dont require it, or the state requires it, dont muddy the waters. There is nothing more suspicious as the man who offers up too much "proof" of his inocence of something he has not even been charged with.

Once the window of testing is over, too bad so sad, they can not muddy the waters with accusations. Anyone that says so is dreaming.

So, to sum it up, where was the car towed from, the persons house, or the scene? If they drove it home, and then found out they could not drive it, then it has no bearing on the accident. Also, where was your hubby during all this, and the cop. And who finished the route, and took your hubby home?


ToonerSo that's what it is?

d

This is exactly what I'm talking about; you say the thread was hijacked but exactly what I was speaking of ( hijacking) is what is going on here.

The driver in question was clearly targeted by management and they'd love for him to leave the company. He is a liability in the companys eyes...no question....and if they could knock off 10 more they would and will try....

 

[Channahon]

the union rep told my husband that people call the 800 number on him everyweek and nobody can stand his tactics.

If people call the 800 number on this person every week, then he would not have a job. I have been involved in investigating 800 calls, be it anonymous or not, and can say as a recently retired division manager, there is no way, this sup or mgr would be working for UPS any longer, if in fact the information is verified or documented accordingly.

Now if there is no information that can be verified to be fact, and calls are continously made, I can assure you the management person would be made aware of the phone call made to corporate. That in itself would change the behavior of the management person.

Now to have this advice been made by a union steward, tells me there is a relationship problem with the steward or Business Agent. As I would never think a Business Agent would give this type of advice to a steward without the involvement of the District Labor Manager.

If there is an issue with a management person not following the contract, the Labor manager is the first to let the Division or District Manager know there is a problem.

That's what they get paid for, to follow the contract as agreed upon by the company and union.

I don't know what part of the country your husband works at, but UPS has the procedures in place to provide consistency in employee discipline.

And I know by stating this, there will be a lot of feedback from others on this post.

Best of luck to you and your husband.

 

[scoobypanda]

No accident is grounds for immediate dismissal and your husband's steward and business agent should immediately begin filing unfair labor practice suit. By "firing" your husband on the spot, he has violated the weingarten act which mandates all union employees are entitled to representation when any conversation involving or implying discipline takes place. This supe acted WAY over his paygrade and his bosses will need to rein him in or kick him out.

 

[paidslave]

No accident is grounds for immediate dismissal and your husband's steward and business agent should immediately begin filing unfair labor practice suit. By "firing" your husband on the spot, he has violated the weingarten act which mandates all union employees are entitled to representation when any conversation involving or implying discipline takes place. This supe acted WAY over his paygrade and his bosses will need to rein him in or kick him out.

Like I said in my earlier post this needs to be documented by calling the name and number to the 800 number as well as unemployment office!

You will have documented statements for evidence when needed!

You can also file unemployment easily on-line so you will not be entirely held out to dry! He will probably get back his job but who know when, with no back pay, so get unemployment immediately because you get no retro benefits!

This sup forgot about your husbands rights per contract and acted using his own judgement rather than the contract rules!

 

[dannyboy]

An employer can take disciplinary action without an investigative interview/meeting with an employee, and a meeting simply informing an employee of disciplinary action does not trigger an employee's right to have a co-worker present.

THis is a quote from the act.

It also says that the employer does not have to inform the employee of this right, and that the union can bargin away this right.

Just so that you have your facts straight about the act.

d

 

[upsrwife]

If people call the 800 number on this person every week, then he would not have a job. I have been involved in investigating 800 calls, be it anonymous or not, and can say as a recently retired division manager, there is no way, this sup or mgr would be working for UPS any longer, if in fact the information is verified or documented accordingly.

the union rep himself called on him for 3 different things last week. i don't know what's going on with this guy, but I know he has been transferred to a few different locations. he has only been my husbands center manager for 2 years. before that, the old center mgr never had a problem and commended my husband every chance he got. my husband said tonight that he has never heard of this guy saying a nice thing to anyone. he is always in a bad mood the driver friends of ours have said they hardly even ever see him come out of his air conditioned office except to complain.

i'm sure that some of the supervisors on here are very nice, fair people, but that doesn't mean all the center manager's are. and i'm sure this one is not after everything i have heard.

well, the grievance is written out and my husband is meeting the union rep in the am. i must say I enjoy a good battle, but this one is crippling us and i hope things get better for us, and other employees in a battle.

 

[dannyboy]

My suggestion? Get a good nights sleep. Then get up in the am, fix hubby a good breakfast, or take him out to micki Dees. Then let the union reps do their thing. After it is all over with, post back and let us know how it worked out.

d

 

[Braveheart]

Tier 3 is automatic firing pending investigation. Company policy.

The driver needs to file a grievance immediately. If the driver has a decent record they will be back.

Thanks for your post. When did this policy start and what is the definition of a tier 3.

If you rear end another driver a tier 3 accident a tier 3 even if at 5 miles per hour.

Driver may deserve to lose safe driving for the year and get a warning letter. I have seen drivers in my building receive excessive punishment. The punishment in my building lately seems to always be more than deserved. The punishment should fit the crime.

There are drivers who get away with murder. Some are discriminated against and others given favoritism.

I would document every accident you hear about that has happened recently, last couple of years, and talk to those drivers and use in your defense.

 

[Braveheart]

I don't believe this is accurate. A few months back, my center had two tier 3 accidents within a couple days of eachother. Both drivers were still there, not fired, but they did have to get a ride from the division manager.

Believe it. I have seen a kiss ass drivers do all the same things a non kiss ass driver do. Some times they both get the same punishment and some times they do not.

I have seen some get warning letter while the next guy get fired. Both drivers had equal driving records only manager had a grudge against the other driver who won a big grievance against his hard headed ass.

 

[dannyboy]

Hey Voice

Tier 3 is automatic firing pending investigation. Company policy

Where do you find that in the policy book? I cant seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

d

 

[Braveheart]

Ok, I am not the nagging pain in the ass wife, my husband just really isn't a computer person at all, he doesn't even have an e-mail address. his life is work and our son. he knows i posted here.
the supervisor who fired him wasn't a road supervisor, it was the center supervisor, who drove out to the scene and fired him. he also fired 3 other employee's this week for similiar small stuff.

he is not "suspended", he is fired, they told him his insurance stopped yesterday.

there is no part of the story i am leaving out. i'm not an idiot. i'm law enforcement myself and i'm not just telling his side. i said it was his fault, he was ticketed. but it was a very minor accident. no injury. a bent in fender and flat tire. his boss who fired him on the spot did it before he even ever knew if there was going to be a tow. then did it again in the morning after he said that it was towed afterward (to be determined).

they haven't asked for a uring test, nor has he ever had one ever. i guess it's just something they don't do at his center unless they feel the need. most of his friends haven't ever had one either.

he has written three grievances. he is turning them in on monday. his union reps ( i even talked to the local pres) said not to worry, but that's pretty hard when youre on the other end.

my husband tells me everything. he hasn't had anything happen at work in the last year, and before that it was just stuff like getting stuck in the dirt write ups and his truck scraping a branch once.

as i posted earlier, the contract here is firing for teir 3 accident, i basically was asking if when the union says and all his driver friends say that we shouldn't worry, he will get his job back, is that an accurate statement?

thanks again for the replies

Thanks for posting. Tell your husband to join. We all need to stick together and I for one believe you.

Some on here are management. Some are the type that automatically think one is guilty. I guess people need to pick up a paper and read about all the WRONGLY convicted people getting released from prison when the DNA shows they were not the person who commited the crime. I friend they can not read rent the movie "The Green Mile". Yes it is only a movie but these things happen.

Peolpe should always question authority. Or we can continue to listen to CEO's like Ken Lay of Enron, or the others like the one's who ran Tyco, Adelphia, Global Crossing, Healthsouth, Aurther Anderson, etc etc into ice bergs.

I would file to be paid for all back pay if you can afford to sit it out. Otherwise the more this guy gets away with it the more this will be considered the norm. Everyone will think it is ok to get wrongfully terminated and just be content to get their job back.

If your husband has a few things in the last 9 months or even 12 months it would be tough. But we had a guy with 3 in 13 months and was back to work in like 2 or three weeks. He felt lucky to get back and we all understood taking the suspension without pay to just get his job back considerring his accident history.

 

[tieguy]

Like I said in my earlier post this needs to be documented by calling the name and number to the 800 number as well as unemployment office!

You will have documented statements for evidence when needed!

You can also file unemployment easily on-line so you will not be entirely held out to dry! He will probably get back his job but who know when, with no back pay, so get unemployment immediately because you get no retro benefits!

This sup forgot about your husbands rights per contract and acted using his own judgement rather than the contract rules!

you don't call the 1-800 number for contract violations you file a grievance.

When you're all done running this center manager out of town for being a mean spirited manager who holds grudges for someone going out on disability two years ago you still have a tier 3 accident to deal with.

the tier 3 discharge rule is not national policy but may be district policy for that district.

Thus:

center manager may actually be within his rights to make the decision he made. I think its tacky to do so at the accident scene when the accident is still being investigated and has not been wrapped up. Its also short sighted to do so. If he clearly announced to the driver that he was discharged at the scene then the investigation stops at that point.

But calling the 800 number and proving the center manager is mean-spirited and holds grudges will not get the driver his job back.

 

[Braveheart]

his boss who fired him on the spot did it before he even ever knew if there was going to be a tow. then did it again in the morning after he said that it was towed afterward (to be determined).

Did your husband tell you what the union steward said to him after he got fired the next morning?

Generally, UPS management will speak to the steward first to advise of the situation and action that will be taken by the company. At least that how I dealt with disciplinary action with dealing with a union employee.

That should be a good indication of how the union will back him at his hearing. Based on what his union brothers are stating on this thread, he should get his job back. I know it's hard not to worry, but if his record is as clean as you say, he should be back to work.

Not all managers follow contract.

 

[paidslave]

you don't call the 1-800 number for contract violations you file a grievance.

Knew you would count on the grievance and hide behind the union........

If you're completely correct I don't see any reason to have this number!

Why have a number when the company doesn't need it because like you they will say file a grievance?


I never said the call would get his job back! It will be documented and hopefully this type of discipline is not dictated by an opinion but a contract!


I see, maybe this is the new company policy to fire drivers on the spot for an accident!

 

[paidslave]

Not all managers follow contract.

I thought all supervisors and managers go to school to understand due process and to go over what the contract states?

I am a shareholder as well, and I would hate to see wrongfull termination suits affecting the bottom line!

With that said, hopefully management will know what progressive discipline truly means or why collective bargain this!


Honesty must start at the top to be expected at the bottom!

 

[AlaskaMike]

"they haven't asked for a urine test, nor has he ever had one. I guess they don't do that at his center." ( this is not verbatim) WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Any time there is an accident of this type there should be a urine test. That's DOT regulations!!!!!! If I were him and they hadn't asked for a UA I would be going to my own doctor and having one done, then they can't come back later and make any other accusations. Let your BA know that they haven't done a UA. Also our BA's automatically file for ANY termination. It's standard policy.

I was fired for a tier 3 accident. A car traveling the same direction I was, but two lanes over tried to make a left turn and spun out of control on ice and into my lane. I slammed into him and sent his passenger to the hospital with a concussion. After the investigation I was fired. The funny part is that I didn't miss a day of work. They kept me working while the union appealed it. I got my job back in a month or so. But I was never asked to give a urine test. In fact I've been in a few accidents over the years and have never had to give a urine test. In fact I've never heard of a driver up here who has.

 

[AlaskaMike]

Not sarcasm. when you approach an intersection you make sure the other guy is stopping before you enter the intersection. Unless the guy does a stop and go you can tell whether he is stopping or not.

Of course you do. And if you're at an intersection with two cars coming your direction from the left and two from the right and the speed limit is 45 and you've got cars coming up behind you and one facing you in the left turn lane you can easily make sure the other guy is stopping before proceeding.

It's just like the safety videos where they show us some guy lifting an empty box or loading a truck where everything fits nicely on the shelves. Expecting drivers to try to determine what the other six or eight cars in an intersection are going to do is understandable. Expecting the driver to always get it right is absurd.

 

[AlaskaMike]

THis is a quote from the act.

It also says that the employer does not have to inform the employee of this right, and that the union can bargin away this right.

Just so that you have your facts straight about the act.

d

But the national contract does guarantee an employee the right to union representation in any situation where disciplinary action may take place. It also requires the company to tell the employee he has that right and it requires the employee to sign a written waiver if he or she chooses not to have union representation. So the center manager shouldn't have fired the driver on the spot without first conducting an investigation and then having a meeting with the driver and the union to discuss the results of the investigation.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Hey Voice

Where do you find that in the policy book? I cant seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

d

I spoke too soon for the company. It seems that there is no "one" company Tier 3 policy (by the posts here, sorry) but rather individual district policies.

Definition of a tier 3? As I understand it, ANY intersection accident regardless of fault or speed, hitting a pedestrian/bicyclist, and rear ending someone.