Political views 'hard-wired' into your brain

[moreluck]

Picture me standing next to San Fran Nan and her uttering those famous intelligent words, "We have to pass the bill before we can know what's in it."

There's no amount of tolerance & understanding in this universe that will make the 2 of us have a cup of tea together. No tea with Michelle either.....or, nevermind, the list is too long.

 

[curiousbrain]

[...] Reasonable people, when corrected, will weigh the new information against their existing beliefs and reassess their beliefs, which is a continuous process.

In the present climate, there seems to be a resistance to being "corrected" in any sense - more to the point, there seems to be some disagreement about what a "fact" is. Too many times these days, individuals can be given what would generally be considered proof of a certain point, and they will defer to data manipulation, or other underhanded methods, as to why the proof is not really proof.

The call-in segments on Washington Journal (C-SPAN) offer an example that this is not a local or regional phenomenon, but that it appears to be a partisan thing - Republicans, generally speaking, would look at the "proof" offered by global warming proponents (i.e. scientists) and say a variety of things as to why that data/report/etc is not valid; on the other side of the spectrum, Democrats, generally speaking, would look at the "proof" offered by tax cut proponents (i.e. economists) and say a variety of things as to why that data/report/etc is not valid.

I guess the bigger question I'm driving towards is this: how does a person know when they have been corrected, if they are inherently mistrustful of all things except from the sources they have pre-identified as being trustful?

Arguing will never change someone's political views. They don't need to be changed, and can't be by outside forces.

I don't particularly disagree, but doesn't that in the sense defeat the purpose of politics? If one politician can never convince any other of the primacy of their position, the only compromise that can arise is that of the absolute bare minimum as forced by circumstances; as an example, to keep the government funded and no compromise is forthcoming, only the absolute minimum give-and-take is conceded to keep the machine running. Not sure if that is even a compromise.

 

[hubrat]

Picture me standing next to San Fran Nan and her uttering those famous intelligent words, "We have to pass the bill before we can know what's in it."

There's no amount of tolerance & understanding in this universe that will make the 2 of us have a cup of tea together. No tea with Michelle either.....or, nevermind, the list is too long.

Learning how to communicate responsibly is not difficult. If one respect himself it will be much easier for him to tolerate and respect people with differing opinions, and to see that their opinions come from a very valid place.

Everyone makes mistakes when communicating. We are emotional creatures and it's impossible to keep that out of the equation. It's much easier to keep in check when ppl are aware of how these emotions affect them. My guess about the woman that you quoted would be that she is passionate about the issue for a very valid reason, and if she is intelligent at all she didn't think before she spoke. To take it a little further, she may not realize how her strong feelings are affecting her communication or what valid place they come from. I doubt she is as idiotic as her comments sounded.

Same with your reaction and feelings. You don't sound idiotic, but on't close your mind off completely.

 

[hubrat]

I guess the bigger question I'm driving towards is this: how does a person know when they have been corrected, if they are inherently mistrustful of all things except from the sources they have pre-identified as being trustful

Mutual respect. Are we really so far gone as a nation that we cannot do this? If someone is truly that mistrustful, he is extremely frightened and probably has not had very many opportunities in his life. He probably doesn't really truly trust anyone. When you actually meet a person that fearful, you can at least guess there's a darn good reason he feels that way. He hasn't learned some key coping skills. It's not an intelligence thing, or a political thing, it's a human thing. Somewhere along the way to where he is today he missed a learning opportunity. His mistrust is not necessarily wrong either. It's saved his ass for a lotta years. But it's time for him to open himself to something new. The mistrust that has worked well up to now is unreasonable.

Having an open mind doesn't mean that you hafta give up your security.
It just means you'll haft learn to be o.k. With a little ambivalence.
It doesn't mean you have to agree to change anything.
It does mean you will experience some uncomfortable feelings, but they won't kill you, they will subside, and your life will improve.
It doesn't mean anybody's wrong. It means we're different.

It's not about being corrected or right/wrong. It isn't about insults or saving face.
It isn't about making mistakes even though we all will continue to do that. It's o.k. to change your mind and it's ok not to.
And it is not about what side you're on. That's a detail. We are going to disagree on some things. But the other person's opinions and beliefs are very valid to him.

Just be open to learning a little more about yourself and others, and how you relate. Be tolerant of ppl whose opinions differ from yours. Their guts have saved their asses a lotta times too.

It's still all about respect. Some things will never change.

 

[curiousbrain]

Mutual respect. Are we really so far gone as a nation that we cannot do this? If someone is truly that mistrustful, he is extremely frightened and probably has not had very many opportunities in his life. He probably doesn't really truly trust anyone. When you actually meet a person that fearful, you can at least guess there's a darn good reason he feels that way. He hasn't learned some key coping skills. It's not an intelligence thing, or a political thing, it's a human thing. Somewhere along the way to where he is today he missed a learning opportunity. His mistrust is not necessarily wrong either. It's saved his ass for a lotta years. But it's time for him to open himself to something new. The mistrust that has worked well up to now is unreasonable.

Having an open mind doesn't mean that you hafta give up your security.
It just means you'll haft learn to be o.k. With a little ambivalence.
It doesn't mean you have to agree to change anything.
It does mean you will experience some uncomfortable feelings, but they won't kill you, they will subside, and your life will improve.
It doesn't mean anybody's wrong. It means we're different.

It's not about being corrected or right/wrong. It isn't about insults or saving face.
It isn't about making mistakes even though we all will continue to do that. It's o.k. to change your mind and it's ok not to.
And it is not about what side you're on. That's a detail. We are going to disagree on some things. But the other person's opinions and beliefs are very valid to him.

Just be open to learning a little more about yourself and others, and how you relate. Be tolerant of ppl whose opinions differ from yours. Their guts have saved their asses a lotta times too.

It's still all about respect. Some things will never change.

I don't disagree with you in any sense, but I would hazard that relying on mutual respect in order to facilitate politics is being a little idyllic.

To elaborate, I would say that when the reward of a political contest is money and power, why bother with respect - just win; especially, since once you have won the people generally forget rather quickly and move on to some other issue.

It seems that the political reality of the world is much more Machiavelli then it is Thomas More.

 

[diesel96]

Here's the Political reality....
Obama Derangement Syndrome......pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism has infected (Hard-wired into) portions of America and especially the GOP. Data has proved it following the passage of the Healthcare Bill...

Harris poll
67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."
The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

The campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped the hyper-partisanship over the past 2 years. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.
Education and knowledge, or a lack there of, is a bridge to extremism. Respondents without a college education and or a grasp of political science, are more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with command of the issues are less easily duped.

 

[over9five]

Hmmm, the Antichrist. Never considered that, but now that you bring it up....

 

[Jones]

Something like 80-90% percent of Americans believe that there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us all the time, so actually Obama might not be doing too bad

 

[over9five]

Something like 80-90% percent of Americans believe that there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us all the time, so actually Obama might not be doing too bad

LOL, +1000000!!!!! Which is worse, believing in the magic guy, or believing Obama's a socialist? Which one is Crazy?

 

[Catatonic]

Something like 80-90% percent of Americans believe that there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us all the time, so actually Obama might not be doing too bad

I don't think it is enlightened understanding to think that religious people believe in a man in the sky ... that is for kids and then as a person grows in their spiritual experience a deeper and more spiritual understanding is attained. Perhaps that is in your future.

 

[curiousbrain]

Here's the Political reality....
Obama Derangement Syndrome......pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism has infected (Hard-wired into) portions of America and especially the GOP.

I do agree that there is a degree of unnecessary hatred out there for the current President, the majority of which seems to manifests itself out of voluntary or involuntary ignorance; however, I hasten to point out that Bush, and his two predecessors, were subjected to a lot of the same sort of criticism - Google for "Bush is the antichrist", or other patently absurd things, and you are bound to find quite a few hits from 2003 onwards. Whether I agreed with Bush and his policies or not is irrelevant, he didn't deserve that sort of nonsense and neither does Obama. As you indicated throughout your post, it does nothing to advance any sort of political dialogue, from either end of the spectrum.

Data has proved it following the passage of the Healthcare Bill...

Harris poll
67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."
The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

That is hardly proof; that is an online opinion poll from one organization, with less then 2,500 respondents.

On a more general note, beyond me splitting hairs about what does or does not constitute proof, it stands to reason that the economy is bad, the world seems really messed up, and people lash out at those who represent the existing power structure(s) whom they view as having failed them - in this case, the government and Obama as its figurehead. Lots of people think lots of crazy things, but I am dubious that people really believe (in the same way that they believe in oxygen and gravity) that Obama is a Muslim, socialist, antichrist, right-wing Christian who has thrown in with the terrorists.

The campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped the hyper-partisanship over the past 2 years. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.
Education and knowledge, or a lack there of, is a bridge to extremism. Respondents without a college education and or a grasp of political science, are more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with command of the issues are less easily duped.

Cannot really disagree with that in any tangible way.

 

[Babagounj]

I don't think it is enlightened understanding to think that religious people believe in a man in the sky ... that is for kids

because every grown person knows it's really little green men from outer space up there.

 

[bbsam]

I don't think it is enlightened understanding to think that religious people believe in a man in the sky ... that is for kids and then as a person grows in their spiritual experience a deeper and more spiritual understanding is attained. Perhaps that is in your future.

Then again, maybe not. But then again, maybe not necessary in everybody's life.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Here's the Political reality....
Obama Derangement Syndrome......pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism has infected (Hard-wired into) portions of America and especially the GOP. Data has proved it following the passage of the Healthcare Bill...which the Majority of Americans were and are against...but thats OK cause Demorats know whats good for you and youll like it...; We just have to pass it so we can see whats in it...

Hey Deez...You forgot to mention the Liberal Mantra...GOP hates Obama cause he is black.

Smith poll
67 percent of Demorats (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Bush is the Devil.
57 percent of Demorats (32 percent overall) believe that Bush hates black people.
45 percent of Demorats (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president" but dont care as long as he keeps giving handouts.
38 percent of Demorats (20 percent overall) say that Bush is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
Best of all, 24 percent of Demorats (14 percent overall) say that Bush "may be the Antichrist."
The belief that Bush was a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

The campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped by then Demorats and the Liberal dominated media during the Bush adminstration. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.
Education and knowledge, or a lack there of, is a bridge to extremism. Damn redneck racist Tea partiers.... Respondents without a college education and or a grasp of political science, are more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with command of the issues are less easily duped.

Golly Deez...we are so happy to have someone of your Liberal mindset to grace the BC forums...LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[curiousbrain]

Golly Deez...we are so happy to have someone of your Liberal mindset to grace the BC forums...LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Admittedly, this is not doing much to advance the political discourse, either.

 

[moreluck]

That's it !! I'm a damn red neck racist tea partier !!! Finally, a name for it. I'm validated!

 

[hubrat]

Something like 80-90% percent of Americans believe that there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us all the time, so actually Obama might not be doing too bad

LOL, +1000000!!!!! Which is worse, believing in the magic guy, or believing Obama's a socialist? Which one is Crazy?

(just in case y'all haven't seen it - it's one of my faves)

[video=youtube;aUaO0LNhKcQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaO0LNhKcQ[/video]

 

[klein]

hubrat, didn't see that one, so cool ! LMAO !

 

[diesel96]

Something like 80-90% percent of Americans believe that there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us all the time, so actually Obama might not be doing too bad

And the invisible man needs money ! Lots and lots of money

I do agree that there is a degree of unnecessary hatred out there for the current President, the majority of which seems to manifests itself out of voluntary or involuntary ignorance; however, I hasten to point out that Bush, and his two predecessors, were subjected to a lot of the same sort of criticism - Google for "Bush is the antichrist", or other patently absurd things, and you are bound to find quite a few hits from 2003 onwards. Whether I agreed with Bush and his policies or not is irrelevant, he didn't deserve that sort of nonsense and neither does Obama. As you indicated throughout your post, it does nothing to advance any sort of political dialogue, from either end of the spectrum.

Besides the normal back and forth banter of political idealogy and policies, the viral hatred for Bush manifested itself after the realization of invading Iraq under false pretenses, the casualties of an unneccessary war, and all that had followed such as the Patriot Act, Wireless Wire-tapping, torture, etc....there were legitimate concerns for prosecution of that Administration that was more detrimental than lying about a sexual act in the WhiteHouse...


That is hardly proof; that is an online opinion poll from one organization, with less then 2,500 respondents.

On a more general note, beyond me splitting hairs about what does or does not constitute proof, it stands to reason that the economy is bad, the world seems really messed up, and people lash out at those who represent the existing power structure(s) whom they view as having failed them - in this case, the government and Obama as its figurehead. Lots of people think lots of crazy things, but I am dubious that people really believe (in the same way that they believe in oxygen and gravity) that Obama is a Muslim, socialist, antichrist, right-wing Christian who has thrown in with the terrorists.

Ok, leave out the polls, just read some of the extreme posters on this site ? Listen to AM Talk "Hate" Radio, Or witness Tea Party signage and stage guests, or watch an hour of Glen Beck parade Nazi images on his hour long TV program...the fact is, the economy is improving, and that's not good for the GOP's chances in 2012....

Golly Deez...we are so happy to have someone of your Liberal mindset to grace the BC forums...LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gee Lucy, I'm touched you spent so much time with pretty little colors and smiley faces to respond to my post, unfortunately as usual, you share no useful content we can expand upon. I hope Santa brought you a new box of Crayola Crayons to satify your OCD...Happy New Year !

Admittedly, this is not doing much to advance the political discourse, either.

That's just Lue C Fur (Lucy).....he likes cartoons and illustrations mostly......never gets deep verbally though..

 

[Babagounj]

Never write when you can speak,
never speak when you can nod,
never nod when you can wink.
Martin Michael Lomasney (December 3, 1859 -August 12, 1933)