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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 475866" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>The real problem of Gitmo is the fact that among the prisoners there, resides some pretty nasty fellows. I don't doubt that at all. But where Gitmo IMO has gone awry is that it's gone from a mechanism of justice to a mechanism of political outcomes. Among the folks convicted, what would happen if even a small % were tried and obtained an acquittal? This would in fact suggest there is potential of innocent people being there and why not? We have people all the time making news even in our own courts here at home where years after conviction, solid evidence either in DNA or the real culprit confesses and people are released from prison. </p><p> </p><p>I just read the other day about a rape case from the 1980's in Texas where a Texas Tech student was convicted of a rape and sentenced to prison and all along he maintained his innocense and even when given options that would literally grant him immediate release, he refused because he maintained he did not do it. Sadly, he died in prison in the late 90's from health issues but now the real culprit has come forward, admitted to the crime and with DNA testing, it does confirm the man was innocent and the latest confessor, himself a convicted serial rapist, was the real assailant. Even the victim herself is fighting to clear the name of the man originally convicted. </p><p> </p><p>This man never budged on maintaining his innocense but what might he have done had he been waterboarded or other means of so-called torture? On the one hand you are innocent but on the other, you are placed in a position that you think you are going to die unless you confess. Most people's survival instincts take over and the desire to live outweigh other factors so in effect, you lie to save your own life. To make the case more to the point, let's say just for the sake of argument that Gitmo has the wrong guy but he's waterboarded and confesses to something he never did or took part in. In order to save his life, he spins the story his captures want to hear and all is well. The Gitmo officials in turn tell their superiors the good news and they pass on the civilian leaders who declare great things to the public and the State has instilled peace and safety in the minds of the public. But here's the dirty little secret that they don't want you to know and it's both sides. The truth is, the real culprit is still at large. Yeah, comforting fact is it not that in some case it's very possible the real terrorist are running about lose while the State paints a false picture just for their own political advantage.</p><p> </p><p>Oh you say that's "BOLLOCKS" (hope that word is Ok Over9/5 <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" />) well consider the economic crisis we are in. The State both in the Bush admistration and now the Obama adminstration continue their own spins in order to maintain calm and order but are they really telling us the truth? No, because if they were, the first thing out of the box is they'd level with the public about their own culpibility in this mess and admit their own wrongs as both political parties and as a gov't. How can we trust something that we know deep inside our souls that is not honest to begin with? Mistakes happen, happen all the time and expecting humans to be mistake free is way beyond any sort of reason or logic but admitting a mistake as a member of the State proves the State is fallible because the State is made up of humans. It's a complete false picture. Do they not realize in admitting the truth, giving all the facts with insure a sense of calm? Sure, we'll be made for a moment but then we'll realize that we weren't lied too in the end, an element of trust will come into play and just maybe in a peaceful manner we can mover forward and solve the problem which in fact is exactly what we need to do.</p><p> </p><p>All that said, Col. "Mo" Davis was a principle prosecutor at Gitmo but has now resigned and in one case he actually became a defense witness. <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4347236&page=1" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4347236&page=1</span></a> Col. Davis has spoken out about Gitmo as have others in military circles and the problems will continue to grow. As for pressure from civilian ranks on controlling Gitmo outcomes, just consider this single piece to make you step back and at least ask the question as any honest person would. <a href="http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/29/davis/index.html?source=refresh" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/29/davis/index.html?source=refresh</span></a> This is also linked the the former piece @ Salon <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802982.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802982.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR</span></a></p><p> </p><p>Closing Gitmo may or may not be the right course but I can tell you this. Contriving trails for purpose of conviction just to insure political outcome does not ensure justice on the actual bad guys that did the job and even worse is it sets up a false sense of security. Cheney just recently warned that we would suffer more attacks and many pundits made fun of him as trying to boost his own self interests. I contend he might just be right this time because in his quest for political outcome, he and others with him insured the real bad guys still may dwell among us. For once, in Cheney's own way, he just might be admitting the truth!</p><p> </p><p>In the annuls of history, Kings and heads of State were seen as if Gods themselves and thus God was never fallible. All knowing and all perfect. Nothing has changed, it's still the same and now we have greater technological means to further the myth among the masses. The question is, at what point do you stand up and realize the King truly has no clothes?</p><p> </p><p>Welfare and Warfare are the health of the State!</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1970282417_b73516468e.jpg?v=0" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 475866, member: 2189"] The real problem of Gitmo is the fact that among the prisoners there, resides some pretty nasty fellows. I don't doubt that at all. But where Gitmo IMO has gone awry is that it's gone from a mechanism of justice to a mechanism of political outcomes. Among the folks convicted, what would happen if even a small % were tried and obtained an acquittal? This would in fact suggest there is potential of innocent people being there and why not? We have people all the time making news even in our own courts here at home where years after conviction, solid evidence either in DNA or the real culprit confesses and people are released from prison. I just read the other day about a rape case from the 1980's in Texas where a Texas Tech student was convicted of a rape and sentenced to prison and all along he maintained his innocense and even when given options that would literally grant him immediate release, he refused because he maintained he did not do it. Sadly, he died in prison in the late 90's from health issues but now the real culprit has come forward, admitted to the crime and with DNA testing, it does confirm the man was innocent and the latest confessor, himself a convicted serial rapist, was the real assailant. Even the victim herself is fighting to clear the name of the man originally convicted. This man never budged on maintaining his innocense but what might he have done had he been waterboarded or other means of so-called torture? On the one hand you are innocent but on the other, you are placed in a position that you think you are going to die unless you confess. Most people's survival instincts take over and the desire to live outweigh other factors so in effect, you lie to save your own life. To make the case more to the point, let's say just for the sake of argument that Gitmo has the wrong guy but he's waterboarded and confesses to something he never did or took part in. In order to save his life, he spins the story his captures want to hear and all is well. The Gitmo officials in turn tell their superiors the good news and they pass on the civilian leaders who declare great things to the public and the State has instilled peace and safety in the minds of the public. But here's the dirty little secret that they don't want you to know and it's both sides. The truth is, the real culprit is still at large. Yeah, comforting fact is it not that in some case it's very possible the real terrorist are running about lose while the State paints a false picture just for their own political advantage. Oh you say that's "BOLLOCKS" (hope that word is Ok Over9/5 :wink2:) well consider the economic crisis we are in. The State both in the Bush admistration and now the Obama adminstration continue their own spins in order to maintain calm and order but are they really telling us the truth? No, because if they were, the first thing out of the box is they'd level with the public about their own culpibility in this mess and admit their own wrongs as both political parties and as a gov't. How can we trust something that we know deep inside our souls that is not honest to begin with? Mistakes happen, happen all the time and expecting humans to be mistake free is way beyond any sort of reason or logic but admitting a mistake as a member of the State proves the State is fallible because the State is made up of humans. It's a complete false picture. Do they not realize in admitting the truth, giving all the facts with insure a sense of calm? Sure, we'll be made for a moment but then we'll realize that we weren't lied too in the end, an element of trust will come into play and just maybe in a peaceful manner we can mover forward and solve the problem which in fact is exactly what we need to do. All that said, Col. "Mo" Davis was a principle prosecutor at Gitmo but has now resigned and in one case he actually became a defense witness. [URL="http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4347236&page=1"][COLOR=red]http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4347236&page=1[/COLOR][/URL] Col. Davis has spoken out about Gitmo as have others in military circles and the problems will continue to grow. As for pressure from civilian ranks on controlling Gitmo outcomes, just consider this single piece to make you step back and at least ask the question as any honest person would. [URL="http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/29/davis/index.html?source=refresh"][COLOR=red]http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/04/29/davis/index.html?source=refresh[/COLOR][/URL] This is also linked the the former piece @ Salon [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802982.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR"][COLOR=red]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802982.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR[/COLOR][/URL] Closing Gitmo may or may not be the right course but I can tell you this. Contriving trails for purpose of conviction just to insure political outcome does not ensure justice on the actual bad guys that did the job and even worse is it sets up a false sense of security. Cheney just recently warned that we would suffer more attacks and many pundits made fun of him as trying to boost his own self interests. I contend he might just be right this time because in his quest for political outcome, he and others with him insured the real bad guys still may dwell among us. For once, in Cheney's own way, he just might be admitting the truth! In the annuls of history, Kings and heads of State were seen as if Gods themselves and thus God was never fallible. All knowing and all perfect. Nothing has changed, it's still the same and now we have greater technological means to further the myth among the masses. The question is, at what point do you stand up and realize the King truly has no clothes? Welfare and Warfare are the health of the State! [IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1970282417_b73516468e.jpg?v=0[/IMG] [/QUOTE]
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