Integrity
Binge Poster
hellfire,
Everyone needs someone to talk to.
I hope this changes for you.
Sincerely,
I
Production Standards with Integrity
- Thread starter Integrity
- Start date
Everyone needs someone to talk to.
I hope this changes for you.
Sincerely,
I
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
File a grievance for you and a preloader to get paid for all time worked off the clock. I guarantee the company will stop it after paying a few times!!
Anonymous 10
Guest
That's pretty much what we did. Drivers in there trucks resemble a ghost town now its a beautiful sight. The point I was trying to make is what happens when you talk to someone who is working off the clock and it becomes heated. Next thing you know it could become a workplace violence issue. I've seen it happen where two hourlys have argued about this exact issue. One said he felt threatened and the other is no longer with the firm. A union brother brought reproach against the other and he lost his job at panel. I don't confront people anymore in this situation I grieve it. I think management likes these kind of grievances because there is almost always hard feelings that divide members more than they already are.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You just described our PCM's in my center.
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
The union (that is all the employees covered under the CBA) does not recognize company work standards let alone set them. The more you keep harping about standards the sooner we will be forced to recognize them. If you feel that someone is working off the clock there are grievance procedures that can be followed. Throughout history, there have been large differences in peoples ability to do differing tasks. Lou Gerhig was a better baseball player than Wally Pipp (although if you look him up, Pipp was no slouch). We aren't robots all doing the same exact thing day after day. The union doesn't recognize standards because standards are unfair but because everyone is different.
Integrity
Binge Poster
CharleyHustle,
I don't mean to be harping.
Please forgive me if I appear to be.
I hope you don't hold individuals who want to discuss and speak out about production standards responsible when the union leaders cave in and finally agree to company production standards and measurements.
When the union does this, it will be because of the weakness that exists at the Leadership level of the union.
It is my belief that this will happen and that the local and national leadership will blame the rank and file for not filing grievances on issues that are related to this.
Many on this site will agree with this because many wrongfully believe that the membership is the union.
The union leaders should start to rally the union members in areas that they can control.
Themselves.
"The best way to hold UPS accountable is to do everthing exactly as you are trained to do it." It has been reported to me that Union leaders often use this statement.
They say this, but they do little to see that this is carried out by the membership.
The only union like way to work is to do everything exactly as you are trained and exacly by the contract.
The union will be strengthened if all the weak anti-union workers are shown the door.
Union leaders should let the membership no that anti-union workers will not be tolerated.
Sincerely,
I
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
You really don't "get it". The "leadership" can't "cave in" on anything. They bargain and negotiate, but only the rank and file can "cave in" and vote it in. If you don't like the current leadership then you are free to run a canidate. But if you think taking a hard stand on "production standards" is your best bet to get elected I feel you'll get trounced.
Let me ask you this. If you take 2 (or 5 or 20 or 70,000) UPS workers and give them the exact same work over their shift and they all do "everything exactly as you are trained and exacly by the contract", do you think they will be done at exactly the same time? The realization is that no-one would be done at the exact same time and thus there can be no production standard. Actually the leadership has done everything they can do by negotiating only a fair days work for a fair days pay. The only way we will get a production standard is if uninformed hourly feel they need to harass the leadership to get a "fair" standard.
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
The only problem is the uninformed membership. Over allowed is not recognized by any Union leader or any informed member. The reason the company puts more work on people is because they will do it. If people stop cutting corners, follow the methods and grieve other members working off the clock. Start filling 9.5 grievances at every available oportunity, the company would be forced to put in more routes and reduce the workload. The problem is they know who will run a little faster, not make the proper driver releases or take a shortened lunch if at all and skip entirely the free money from the paid breaks. Those people think its more important for them to run a little harder so they can get home 30 minutes or an hour earlier, they are not concerned about the overall good. Think about this. If you have 6 drivers coming in 10 minutes early and sorting their trucks off the clock, thats one hour. then you have 6 other drivers skipping their lunch(asuming 30 mins), thats 3 hours. Then you have 6 guys skipping one 10 minute paid break. Thats another hour. figure in the other shortcuts taken throughout the day by the runner, gunners. you easily have enough work for another route to be put in. Imagine now if every driver is taking shortcuts like this, how many more routes could be put on the streets.
Now before you tell me that filing 9.5 grievances does no good, consider tha reason for the companies non shelant attitude towards those grievances is because their are so few filed. Honestly, We have on average 60 drivers on the road daily in our center. At least 30 of them are consistently over 9.5hrs. I have not seen a 9.5 grievance in a month, except the one I filed. If all 30 of them filed per their contractual rights, I guarantee something would be done. At the very least they would keep you under for 3 days. Thats the problem with the world today. Everything is all about me, no one gives a rats arse about the good of the group or the consequences of todays actions in the future!!
Now before you tell me that filing 9.5 grievances does no good, consider tha reason for the companies non shelant attitude towards those grievances is because their are so few filed. Honestly, We have on average 60 drivers on the road daily in our center. At least 30 of them are consistently over 9.5hrs. I have not seen a 9.5 grievance in a month, except the one I filed. If all 30 of them filed per their contractual rights, I guarantee something would be done. At the very least they would keep you under for 3 days. Thats the problem with the world today. Everything is all about me, no one gives a rats arse about the good of the group or the consequences of todays actions in the future!!
Integrity
Binge Poster
CharleyHustle,
What exposure have you had to Local Union leadership?
Please don't get mad at me but,
anyone who has had even a small amount of exposure to Local Union leadership knows that they can and do cave on things.
Local 804 has gotten some significant attention for the Unfair Productions Standards rally.
I started this thread to express what is the cause of the "Unfair Production Standards".
Unfair production standards come from the cheaters who don't do their job the right way, the way they were trained by UPS and by the contract.
When I say standards I am refering to the measurements that are fairly established by, in this case a fair time study, to be used as a basis for comparison.
Anyone, even a union supporter should agree that a company needs to have the right to do comparisons like this.
Union supporters should also agree that it is anti-union cheaters who help the company by participating in unfair time studies that result in these unfair standards of measurement who are the cause.
This behavior is what needs to be changed, whatever the cost!
Every UPS employee is required to give a reasonable effort and perform their duties in a manner that best represents the way the Employer wants them to.
2 or 5 or 20 or 70,000 employees each giving the same amount of effort will probably not be done at exactly the same time. They can however be measured against a standard that is fairly established. Not established by anti-union cheaters.
The variables that could could affect the measurement could include, but not be limited to, age and physical condition. I think there are many other variables that could effect the measurement on a given day.
Once the anti-union cheaters are run out of the union, union members can get back to the business of being the best union men and company men in the world.
Production Standard with Integrity
Give a reasonable effort every day, an effort that will allow your body to hold up for 30 plus years of providing for your family, always honor the contract no matter what the cost, always do the job exactly as you were trained. Report any low level management person who tries to get you to cheat yourself, your family, your union brothers and sisters and the company you work for, to further their own short-sighted aims and goals.
Sincerely,
I
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
Folks, I think the above quotes lead us down the slippery slope to the union having no hope to saving your job to the whims of the company. I'm not looking for support, just asking you to read the quotes and asking yourself if that is what you really want.
"can however be measured against a standard that is fairly established" Who is more likely to have uttered this statement, your BA or your boss?
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
Do I as a senority employee have a "contractual" right to any available excess overtime? What if I, as a senority employee don't want to reduce my overtime? I have employees complain to me that because I wont get on the 9.5 list their route gets pulled out on Monday. But don't I have a "right" to that overtime if I want it? Who is being selfish now? I hate to keep using the Gerhig and Pipp anology, but everyone is not the same.
idrivethetruck
Slow & steady wins the race.
On Mondays, "John Doe's" route is cut so I run his apartment complex. The apt office doesn't accept parcels for their tenants so I have 5 or 6 send-agains. On Tuesday, "John Doe" is back at work and dr's those packages. Wednesday morning, my sup comes to me and makes me sign a form because I didn't dr those packages on Monday. I write in big letters on the form "this is an apartment complex and I have signed a dr certification stating that I will not dr apartments. These packages should not have been driver released!"
This has happened almost every week for the past 2 months. The sup just looks at what I've written and puts the form aside. The "John Doe" has never once been reprimanded for this because it takes much less time to dr than get signatures and he never has any send-agains.
My point is that most sups look the other way when their "pets" do the job incorrectly because their performance helps their numbers. It's the way it's always been here and always will be here. Management is nothing but hypocrites who preach one thing but then do another. Do as I say, not as I do!
Like preaching safety and then forcing employees to work 12 hour shifts in 95+ degree heat.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
What night's good for you?
menotyou
bella amicizia
Why are you signing anything? Art. 6, Sect. 1 in contract clearly states we can't.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
I don't think it says you cannot sign, it is more along the lines that anything you DO sign is null and void as extra-contract agreements. correct me if I'm wrong, don't have contract right in front of me.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Integrity
Binge Poster
Sleeve_meet_Heart,
My interpretation of Article 6 section 1 of the contract allows for the company to require, or attempt to require, the members to sign documents.
A violation occurs if the company attempts to require employees to sign any documents that in any way conflict with the terms of the contract.
It is true that the contract nullifies and voids these type of documents.
Sincerely,
I
