hondo
promoted to mediocrity
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will state.
- Thread starter AssistantSanta
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washington57
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Ass should go work for fedex instead
Ass should go work for fedex instead
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
I really wish I had known about this prior to devoting countless hours of missed sleep coming in early every day to represent over 100 part timers in disciplinary meetings for 2 years because no one within the preload was competent enough nor motivated enough to do it. I lost count of how many jobs I saved from arbitrary discipline meted out by the vindictive management they had and when they were replaced I put in a fair, documentation-heavy discipline system that stands to this day.
As for wages, this has been discussed ad nauseum. UPS insisted on keeping the starting wage at $8.50. I know this as a fact straight from the bargaining table. UPS is now reaping the rewards of paying substandard starting wages by keeping their turnover high. Perhaps the minimum wage will catch up to the starting wage and they will be forced to increase it. The progression is fair and rewards tenure which is a standard of both UPS and the Teamsters. Part-timers outnumber Full time by more than 2:1 so if they were not happy with the last and previous contracts that did not increase the starting wage they were more than welcome to vote them down (reason #1 to be in the Union).
Health benefits are paid the same regardless of whether you are friend/t or p/t so I don't see where you are getting an subsidies out of that. The pension, ours in the West at least, has you vested at 5 years regardless of whether you are friend/t or p/t which is fairly standard.
Apparently you were misinformed as a part-timer and remain so.
I can understand UPS' argument that their high turnover in p/t precludes increasing the starting wage but they are being shortsighted and not recognizing that by failing to have at least a decent, competitive starting wage they are not attracting good candidates that will stick around. It's unfortunate but there aren't enough people out there who will persevere to reap the benefits and we all know that UPS pays off in the long haul.
To the OP: you are obviously trolling as others have in the past. Keep believing the RTW crap you espouse and see how you benefit from it.
I really wish I had known about this prior to devoting countless hours of missed sleep coming in early every day to represent over 100 part timers in disciplinary meetings for 2 years because no one within the preload was competent enough nor motivated enough to do it. I lost count of how many jobs I saved from arbitrary discipline meted out by the vindictive management they had and when they were replaced I put in a fair, documentation-heavy discipline system that stands to this day.
As for wages, this has been discussed ad nauseum. UPS insisted on keeping the starting wage at $8.50. I know this as a fact straight from the bargaining table. UPS is now reaping the rewards of paying substandard starting wages by keeping their turnover high. Perhaps the minimum wage will catch up to the starting wage and they will be forced to increase it. The progression is fair and rewards tenure which is a standard of both UPS and the Teamsters. Part-timers outnumber Full time by more than 2:1 so if they were not happy with the last and previous contracts that did not increase the starting wage they were more than welcome to vote them down (reason #1 to be in the Union).
Health benefits are paid the same regardless of whether you are friend/t or p/t so I don't see where you are getting an subsidies out of that. The pension, ours in the West at least, has you vested at 5 years regardless of whether you are friend/t or p/t which is fairly standard.
Apparently you were misinformed as a part-timer and remain so.
I can understand UPS' argument that their high turnover in p/t precludes increasing the starting wage but they are being shortsighted and not recognizing that by failing to have at least a decent, competitive starting wage they are not attracting good candidates that will stick around. It's unfortunate but there aren't enough people out there who will persevere to reap the benefits and we all know that UPS pays off in the long haul.
To the OP: you are obviously trolling as others have in the past. Keep believing the RTW crap you espouse and see how you benefit from it.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
From what I have read from you on here, I fully believe this.
I believe you when you say you have heard this ... I have differently. UPS actually spends millions to try and reduce P/T turnover ... that is a fact and I have seen the figures. What I have heard is that the Union never is willing to reduce driver compensation to fund increases in P/T wages. Practically all Union members that influence the Teamster/UPS contract are friend/T drivers ... part-timers don't participate for whatever reason.
My point is that P/T rarely use their health plan benefits and even more rarely stay around for 5 years or more to realize any benefit from their pension benefits. This is especially true since almost all pension benefits are back-loaded in the last few years of employment. Look at the non-linear benefits for an employee for 10 years versus 25. The difference is much greater than the 2.5 factor (10 * 2.5 = 25).
I certainly was misinformed or indifferent when I was a P/T but I think my skepticism and analytical skills serve me well now. and don't forget my Personal Quote - "Ignore words, judge by actions. Pay no attention to what people say...observe their actions."
Sounds reasonable and you may be right.
I happen to agree with you. US based UPS employees that actually handle and progress the physical packages are in an enviable position to many other workers in the US such as FedEx employees.
From what I have read from you on here, I fully believe this.
I believe you when you say you have heard this ... I have differently. UPS actually spends millions to try and reduce P/T turnover ... that is a fact and I have seen the figures. What I have heard is that the Union never is willing to reduce driver compensation to fund increases in P/T wages. Practically all Union members that influence the Teamster/UPS contract are friend/T drivers ... part-timers don't participate for whatever reason.
My point is that P/T rarely use their health plan benefits and even more rarely stay around for 5 years or more to realize any benefit from their pension benefits. This is especially true since almost all pension benefits are back-loaded in the last few years of employment. Look at the non-linear benefits for an employee for 10 years versus 25. The difference is much greater than the 2.5 factor (10 * 2.5 = 25).
I certainly was misinformed or indifferent when I was a P/T but I think my skepticism and analytical skills serve me well now. and don't forget my Personal Quote - "Ignore words, judge by actions. Pay no attention to what people say...observe their actions."
Sounds reasonable and you may be right.
I happen to agree with you. US based UPS employees that actually handle and progress the physical packages are in an enviable position to many other workers in the US such as FedEx employees.
washington57
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
How many year were you PT hoax?
How many year were you PT hoax?
AssistantSanta
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
There seems to be a confusion in this thread. It is *NOT* right to work state where I am. So, I'll be paying agency fee anyways but membership(thus being subject to union discipline) is optional.
Are new hires given accurate and clear information and not misled in anyway concerning union membership?
Are they given the option to join/not join in a clear and open manner? (i.e. on upsjobs.com application, buttons showing "optional union membership would you like to join once hired? yes/no )
They made me fill out union forms when I joined as a helper and I was told I need to work with the union to resign. It seems that new hires are automatically joined into to get out of it, they'll have to draw attention to themselves and write a resignation letter. Am I wrong?
There seems to be a confusion in this thread. It is *NOT* right to work state where I am. So, I'll be paying agency fee anyways but membership(thus being subject to union discipline) is optional.
It is my right. Are my coworkers going to be professional about it or are they going to make me a target of workplace violence and/or harassment because I choose not to participate in union activity such as as trike?
First, ok. I don't care what "most" do. I'd want to evaluate the pros and cons myself. As for the numbers, are they given proper explanation of membership and given an easy yes/no option at the time of hire?
Are new hires given accurate and clear information and not misled in anyway concerning union membership?
Are they given the option to join/not join in a clear and open manner? (i.e. on upsjobs.com application, buttons showing "optional union membership would you like to join once hired? yes/no )
They made me fill out union forms when I joined as a helper and I was told I need to work with the union to resign. It seems that new hires are automatically joined into to get out of it, they'll have to draw attention to themselves and write a resignation letter. Am I wrong?
705red
Browncafe Steward
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
You have some stones on you! You want to work at UPS and receive all the benefits of being in the Union without holding your own share?
None of your money goes to political campaigns from the dues! The Teamsters have a program called DRIVE which members in good standing also donate out of their weekly check to endorse people that best represent working class men and women.
If you want to deliver packages for a living and not be Union, thats a FedEx for that!
You have some stones on you! You want to work at UPS and receive all the benefits of being in the Union without holding your own share?
None of your money goes to political campaigns from the dues! The Teamsters have a program called DRIVE which members in good standing also donate out of their weekly check to endorse people that best represent working class men and women.
If you want to deliver packages for a living and not be Union, thats a FedEx for that!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
I have every proposal saved from the 2008 negotiations and I will scan it and post for all to see. We posted them on the local's website during the talks and had a very good strike vote turn out because of the offers if you remember.
I find it funny how your back peddling now when proof can be brought to light. But every chance you get you take a shot at the Union. I dont care if your a moderator or a troll! If you take a shot at the Teamsters, I will fire right back! Plain and simple!
I have every proposal saved from the 2008 negotiations and I will scan it and post for all to see. We posted them on the local's website during the talks and had a very good strike vote turn out because of the offers if you remember.
I find it funny how your back peddling now when proof can be brought to light. But every chance you get you take a shot at the Union. I dont care if your a moderator or a troll! If you take a shot at the Teamsters, I will fire right back! Plain and simple!
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Will he cross any strike line teamster or not.
Will he cross any strike line teamster or not.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Sounds good ... now please go out and organize FedEx.
Sounds good ... now please go out and organize FedEx.
AssistantSanta
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
If I maintain my status as a member and work during a strike, they can apparently fine me and take away what I earned during those period or even more. As a non-member, I would have immunity and union has no power to fine me or punish me for doing something they don't like.
If I maintain my status as a member and work during a strike, they can apparently fine me and take away what I earned during those period or even more. As a non-member, I would have immunity and union has no power to fine me or punish me for doing something they don't like.
Anonymous 10
Guest
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
I hope so
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
The union may not have the poweer to fine or punish you but your co-workers will most certainly make your life pretty miserable.
The union may not have the poweer to fine or punish you but your co-workers will most certainly make your life pretty miserable.
cachsux
Wah
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Funny that you`re debating the benefits of joining the union on a union negotiated holiday.
Funny that you`re debating the benefits of joining the union on a union negotiated holiday.
Johney
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Most certainly.
Johney
Well-Known Member
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Thank you, now I know what it means. I can tell you the guys that crossed in 97 that do still work here to this day are still called scabs by some.
Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta
Your punishment would come when you needed the union representation in a disciplinary matter. They would help you but I would bet that the help you received was the minimal required by law.
Your punishment would come when you needed the union representation in a disciplinary matter. They would help you but I would bet that the help you received was the minimal required by law.
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