Pru 401(K) just started showing up in paycheck?

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
There is one flaw in your argument. Just because you have a college degree does not mean you will make $55,000 at 23. Try low to mid 30's unless you are an engineer.

Fallacy. For all college graduates in 2014, the median salary was close to $49K -- and that engineer is banking over $70K.

There's big deviations regionally in median starting salaries, but the biggest deviation concerns the graduate's grades. If he graduated with a "C" average, he won't receive an offer in line with somebody who had a "B" or better. But after two years experience, his college GPA is of less concern than his experience.

Also, consider total compensation. While it's true many teachers start out in the $30K range, consider that they work an average of 170-175 days per year (with the entire summer off) -- a UPS driver with decades of experience & maximum vacations will work 215. And in 10-15 years, that teacher will be earning $60K-$70K (in present value) anyway. And in 30, they'll be fully retired, with a pension topping $40K/year in most states and not a penny toward retirement health insurance.
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
25% of the internet if you are in the 25% bracket. But still some savings.
Fallacy. For all college graduates in 2014, the median salary was close to $49K -- and that engineer is banking over $70K.

There's big deviations regionally in median starting salaries, but the biggest deviation concerns the graduate's grades. If he graduated with a "C" average, he won't receive an offer in line with somebody who had a "B" or better. But after two years experience, his college GPA is of less concern than his experience.

Also, consider total compensation. While it's true many teachers start out in the $30K range, consider that they work an average of 170-175 days per year (with the entire summer off) -- a UPS driver with decades of experience & maximum vacations will work 215. And in 10-15 years, that teacher will be earning $60K-$70K (in present value) anyway. And in 30, they'll be fully retired, with a pension topping $40K/year in most states and not a penny toward retirement health insurance.
My daughter is a teacher. Started at 40k but pays into both healthcare and pension. Still a pretty good gig.
 

Browndriver5

Well-Known Member
Fallacy. For all college graduates in 2014, the median salary was close to $49K -- and that engineer is banking over $70K.

There's big deviations regionally in median starting salaries, but the biggest deviation concerns the graduate's grades. If he graduated with a "C" average, he won't receive an offer in line with somebody who had a "B" or better. But after two years experience, his college GPA is of less concern than his experience.

Also, consider total compensation. While it's true many teachers start out in the $30K range, consider that they work an average of 170-175 days per year (with the entire summer off) -- a UPS driver with decades of experience & maximum vacations will work 215. And in 10-15 years, that teacher will be earning $60K-$70K (in present value) anyway. And in 30, they'll be fully retired, with a pension topping $40K/year in most states and not a penny toward retirement health insurance.

You are off on several points. The average starting pay for a college graduate was 42,000 and the highest starting salary was that of a mechanical engineer starting at 56,000 a year. Also my ex gfs dad is a teacher he has horrible healthcare pays over 250$ every two weeks for the bare minimum on his family.
 

Browndriver5

Well-Known Member
Not to mention public schools are making huge cuts so teachers salarys are actually going down. Even if a full time driver worked only 8 hrs a day he would make 70 grand. Let's say he waited 8 years to go full time and had a decent 2nd job he would make the same as the average college graduate with no student loans. He would also graduate from pre load and eventually make equevelant to an engineer.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
You are off on several points. The average starting pay for a college graduate was 42,000 and the highest starting salary was that of a mechanical engineer starting at 56,000 a year. Also my ex gfs dad is a teacher he has horrible healthcare pays over 250$ every two weeks for the bare minimum on his family.

First off, I'm using BLS data - which is pretty much a generalization. For example, a college graduate who studied accounting & had a 3.0 GPA can expect to earn in the mid-$40K in Central Florida but over $60K (not including signing bonuses) in Houston. If he graduated with a 2.0 GPA, those numbers decrease by about $15K. Secondly, I looked at chemical engineering, since I knew it paid the highest and was trying to make a point. Thirdly, as with everything else, compensation for teaching widely varies. Oklahoma has the largest teaching shortages, primarily because starting salaries are often in the low $30K -- so low that OK struggles to retain its college grads. But the majority of states have strong teaching unions and with that generous pensions & retirement health care. Obviously that's not the case everywhere.

Not to mention public schools are making huge cuts so teachers salarys are actually going down. Even if a full time driver worked only 8 hrs a day he would make 70 grand. Let's say he waited 8 years to go full time and had a decent 2nd job he would make the same as the average college graduate with no student loans. He would also graduate from pre load and eventually make equevelant to an engineer.

A couple points:
- While UPS pays well, it's a grueling job & tough work environment; if you're not happy working there, you're better off finding something you actually enjoy doing. You only live once and its foolhardy to make decisions exclusively around $$$.

- Don't assume status quo will extend indefinitely. With experience as an accountant, teacher or engineer, you're assured a decent payday the rest of your working career. At UPS, you're dependent on the union (since, quite frankly, if you left UPS, you wouldn't receive a similar compensation package elsewhere). UPS suffers from high labor costs and I doubt perpetual wage & benefit increases will continue (while the company thrives as e-commerce swells, eventually its low-cost competitors will catch up). I don't predict doom & gloom... but in 15 years, I doubt Teamsters will be enjoying generous, no-cost benefits or $100K/year standard salaries.
 

Browndriver5

Well-Known Member
First off, I'm using BLS data - which is pretty much a generalization. For example, a college graduate who studied accounting & had a 3.0 GPA can expect to earn in the mid-$40K in Central Florida but over $60K (not including signing bonuses) in Houston. If he graduated with a 2.0 GPA, those numbers by about $15K. Secondly, I looked at chemical engineering, since I knew it paid the highest and was trying to make a point. Thirdly, as with everything else, compensation for teaching widely varies. Oklahoma has the largest teaching shortages, primarily because starting salaries are often in the low $30K -- so low that OK struggles to retain its college grads. But the majority of states have strong teaching unions and with that generous pensions & retirement health care. Obviously that's not the case everywhere.



A couple points:
- While UPS pays well, it's a grueling job & tough work environment; if you're not happy working there, you're better off finding something you actually enjoy doing. You only live once and its foolhardy to make decisions exclusively around $$$.

- Don't assume status quo will extend indefinitely. With experience as an accountant, teacher or engineer, you're assured a decent payday the rest of your working career. At UPS, you're dependent on the union (since, quite frankly, if you left UPS, you wouldn't receive a similar compensation package elsewhere). UPS suffers from high labor costs and I doubt perpetual wage & benefit increases will continue (while the company thrives as e-commerce swells, eventually its low-cost competitors will catch up). I don't predict doom & gloom... but in 15 years, I doubt Teamsters will be enjoying generous, no-cost benefits or $100K/year standard salaries.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...s-with-the-highest-starting-salaries-in-2015/
 

Browndriver5

Well-Known Member
First off, I'm using BLS data - which is pretty much a generalization. For example, a college graduate who studied accounting & had a 3.0 GPA can expect to earn in the mid-$40K in Central Florida but over $60K (not including signing bonuses) in Houston. If he graduated with a 2.0 GPA, those numbers decrease by about $15K. Secondly, I looked at chemical engineering, since I knew it paid the highest and was trying to make a point. Thirdly, as with everything else, compensation for teaching widely varies. Oklahoma has the largest teaching shortages, primarily because starting salaries are often in the low $30K -- so low that OK struggles to retain its college grads. But the majority of states have strong teaching unions and with that generous pensions & retirement health care. Obviously that's not the case everywhere.



A couple points:
- While UPS pays well, it's a grueling job & tough work environment; if you're not happy working there, you're better off finding something you actually enjoy doing. You only live once and its foolhardy to make decisions exclusively around $$$.

- Don't assume status quo will extend indefinitely. With experience as an accountant, teacher or engineer, you're assured a decent payday the rest of your working career. At UPS, you're dependent on the union (since, quite frankly, if you left UPS, you wouldn't receive a similar compensation package elsewhere). UPS suffers from high labor costs and I doubt perpetual wage & benefit increases will continue (while the company thrives as e-commerce swells, eventually its low-cost competitors will catch up). I don't predict doom & gloom... but in 15 years, I doubt Teamsters will be enjoying generous, no-cost benefits or $100K/year standard salaries.


Not all teamsters will but I believe the people who are already under a certain wage won't be dropped below that wage. I have an uncle that works at a John Deere factory in Wisconsin and as he make 80k to work there the newly hired employees max at 14$ an hour
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Not all teamsters will but I believe the people who are already under a certain wage won't be dropped below that wage. I have an uncle that works at a John Deere factory in Wisconsin and as he make 80k to work there the newly hired employees max at 14$ an hour

We can't predict what will happen, but we know that UPS's labor cost is high and it's affecting shipping pricing; Amazon is willing to toss capital at start-ups to build a nationwide network of contractors in order to reduce its shipping costs, and it's only the beginning.

I do predict, however, that next contract UPS will refuse to guarantee the benefits, weakening the dental insurance (for example), that there will be a nominal deductible & that the IBT will begin asking Teamsters to pay toward premiums (for example, a HDHP may be introduced at no-cost, but a low deductible plan may have a small fee). Given that most white collar employees are now paying the ENTIRE premiums for their spouse & children, it's still a bargain...
 

Browndriver5

Well-Known Member
We can't predict what will happen, but we know that UPS's labor cost is high and it's affecting shipping pricing; Amazon is willing to toss capital at start-ups to build a nationwide network of contractors in order to reduce its shipping costs, and it's only the beginning.

I do predict, however, that next contract UPS will refuse to guarantee the benefits, weakening the dental insurance (for example), that there will be a nominal deductible & that the IBT will begin asking Teamsters to pay toward premiums (for example, a HDHP may be introduced at no-cost, but a low deductible plan may have a small fee). Given that most white collar employees are now paying the ENTIRE premiums for their spouse & children, it's still a bargain...

Well about half our hub is retiring in 2017 so hopefully I'll be a feeder driver. I know their pay won't get dropped
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
You are off on several points. The average starting pay for a college graduate was 42,000 and the highest starting salary was that of a mechanical engineer starting at 56,000 a year. Also my ex gfs dad is a teacher he has horrible healthcare pays over 250$ every two weeks for the bare minimum on his family.
Engineers start at 60 plus in these parts.
 
Top