PT Preload Supervsiors working

[konsole]

I just filed my second grievance a few days ago and I can already sense a bit of targeting by management. From the time I reviewed the first grievance with management and management blatantly denied it and brushed it off, I vowed that I was going to continue filing the grievances until there is significant change. I'm not going to file them every time I see the supervisor working, but when we have adequate staffing and he still cant help himself for a good portion of the day then I will file. I could probably file every day but I think once a week is enough. I've heard that management tells the supervisors not to work but wether the supervisors continue to work because of fear of lack of performance or wether management then under the table tells them "ya just go ahead and keep working" I dunno.

Quick question to you guys. What would you say to your fellow coworkers when they get upset when they realize that the supervisor can't help them anymore because of your filing grievances on the supervisors working? What would you say that would have a strong "open their eyes" effect on them?

 

[JonFrum]

. . .Quick question to you guys. What would you say to your fellow coworkers when they get upset when they realize that the supervisor can't help them anymore because of your filing grievances on the supervisors working? What would you say that would have a strong "open their eyes" effect on them?

As appropriate . . .

Say, "I'm sorry you feel that way" in a neutral tone, but one that conveys that his disapproval will have absolutely no effect on your continuing to file.

Say, "Let me know if you have any trouble. I'll switch with you anytime." Or, "I'll file a grievance to get that straightened out if you want."

Say, "You know the 5 Keys to Safe Walking, the 8 Steps to Lifting & Lowering, and the 8 Rules of Yard Control, can you tell me the 8 Reasons for Filing on a Supervisor Working?"

[OK, I just made up the part about the "8 Reasons," but he should be able to come up with 8 reasons if he thinks long enough. Don't tell him what they are. Give him a day. Make him recite those he comes up with. That should be instructive. Then give him hints about others.]

If all else fails, say, "You are a girly-man. Ya, that's what you are. Like a little girl." And say it like Ah-nold.

 

[tieguy]

I just filed my second grievance a few days ago and I can already sense a bit of targeting by management. From the time I reviewed the first grievance with management and management blatantly denied it and brushed it off, I vowed that I was going to continue filing the grievances until there is significant change. I'm not going to file them every time I see the supervisor working, but when we have adequate staffing and he still cant help himself for a good portion of the day then I will file. I could probably file every day but I think once a week is enough. I've heard that management tells the supervisors not to work but wether the supervisors continue to work because of fear of lack of performance or wether management then under the table tells them "ya just go ahead and keep working" I dunno.

Quick question to you guys. What would you say to your fellow coworkers when they get upset when they realize that the supervisor can't help them anymore because of your filing grievances on the supervisors working? What would you say that would have a strong "open their eyes" effect on them?

you should be honest.Don't sugercoat your message or you will just get more grief. You should tell them you are the a-hole that filed the grievance and you are tired of carrying their dead weight.

I got a question. A union is supposed to be a democracy right? So who is the union here the twenty guys who are willing to let the sup help or the one guy filing the grievance?

 

[JonFrum]

. . .I got a question. A union is supposed to be a democracy right? So who is the union here the twenty guys who are willing to let the sup help or the one guy filing the grievance?

If democracy played any part in the workplace, it was back when the Contract was voted and approved, or when the stewards and Business Agents were elected to their positions. (In some Locals they are appointed, not elected.)

Day to day, there is no voting, no democracy. Management and labor are required to abide by the Contract that both agreed to. Period.

Anyone, on either side, can insist that the Contract's provisions be respected by filing a grievance to stop a Contract violation. Some would say it's even your duty to file!!! When you file, you are filing on behalf of everyone, even the dense.

 

[tieguy]

If democracy played any part in the workplace, it was back when the Contract was voted and approved, or when the stewards and Business Agents were elected to their positions. (In some Locals they are appointed, not elected.)

Day to day, there is no voting, no democracy. Management and labor are required to abide by the Contract that both agreed to. Period.

Anyone, on either side, can insist that the Contract's provisions be respected by filing a grievance to stop a Contract violation. Some would say it's even your duty to file!!! When you file, you are filing on behalf of everyone, even the dense.

And that would be the answer that the guy filing the grievance would give in defense of his lone wolf actions.

at the same time the contract is interpreted and applied differently in each local and even in each building. In some locals teamsters go to bed at night dreaming of new creative ways to generate grievances.

In others the contract is interpreted and enforced much more loosely. If the teamsters in that building overall do not see the agree with this one guy then isn't he really violating the will of that union in that building?

Doesn't the membership of each local have the free will to interpret and enforce as they see fit?

If the contract had said that all of you must committ suicide and 50 percent plus one not reading that clause voted the contract in then does the 49Percent that read and disagreed with that clause now feel obligated to follow it?

 

[JonFrum]

Some differences from one area to another are because the Contract language itself differs from one Supplement to another and from one Rider to another. There is also the difference between the National Master language and the entirely seperate contracts of Locals 705 and 710. Despite all these language differences, the applicable language, whatever it may be, should be enforced consistently everywhere. That's what was agreed to by both sides.

The membership of each local does not have the free will to interpret and enforce the Contract as they see fit. The Contract is a legal document ratified by the membership having the force of law. They are bound to abide by it. It has already been interpreted in most instances. Any remaining grey areas are to be clarified via the grievance process. The time for airing different points of view is at Contract renewal times, past and future.

A lone wolf is someone with a point of view that differs from everyone else. Not someone who is advocating the view shared by a majority of the voting members, the union officials, and management as well. Remember, if a supervisor is working, and an individual files a grievance to stop it, invariably the manager hearing the case will agree and say "supervisors are not suppose to work," that the supervisor was working "without management approval," and that "it won't happen again."

In your absurd (and illegal) example, the solution is to let the 51% commit suicide first, as is their want, then there is no one left to object to the other 49% as they go on living. A win-win situation. Always read the Contract and know what you are voting on.

 

[grgrcr88]

Doesn't the membership of each local have the free will to interpret and enforce as they see fit? [/COLOR]

No, the company and Union have panel hearings to decide interpretation if there is a question, no single person, whether company or Union can decide they interpret the language to mean what they want it to mean. That is the purpose of the grievance. Obviously if a grievance has been filed it is because two or more people disagree on the interpretation of the contract,since the first part of a grievance should be the grievant, steward, and the company talking about the issue to try to settle it prior to reducing it to writing. not it will continue up the line until an agreement is reached on the intent of the language between the company and the Union. Which will then be handed down to all affected by the Grievance.

 

[jalnar]

I agree with the walrus. But at the same time intimidation is how UPS manages so What is good for them should be good for us. Just keep going up to them and ask What the friend k are you doing? Once the first grievance is written and a paper trail is established you will have more ground to stand on. And by all means document everything. Keep a small note pad in your pocket and write everything down(and let them see you do it).And last but least PICK YOU BATTLES CAREFULLY. You cant fight them all at the same time Good luck

 

[tieguy]

The membership of each local does not have the free will to interpret and enforce the Contract as they see fit. .

I disagree. they do have the free will and each barn does define and enforce the contract differently. Jon I'm not sure you really gave me an answer here that I could not have gotten off the official tdu website. I was simply speaking about reality not what the teamsters union says should happen.

The fact is your more radical locals try to find ways to constantly generate new issues and new grievances. In the meantime you have locals located in areas where drivers are lucky to have a ups job who are not as militant.

Since the international does not audit those locals to ensure they are enforcing the contract correctly it seems to support the point that they have the free will to enforce as they see fit.

 

[grgrcr88]

I disagree. they do have the free will and each barn does define and enforce the contract differently. Jon I'm not sure you really gave me an answer here that I could not have gotten off the official tdu website. I was simply speaking about reality not what the teamsters union says should happen.

The fact is your more radical locals try to find ways to constantly generate new issues and new grievances. In the meantime you have locals located in areas where drivers are lucky to have a ups job who are not as militant.

Since the international does not audit those locals to ensure they are enforcing the contract correctly it seems to support the point that they have the free will to enforce as they see fit.

Refer to post 46

 

[PE Pro]

Is this in the cat/doghouse? I remember sups working down there alot. Also on the preload 2 corner by the dog/cathouses, and the other corner of building. Actually division manager "B.B" fired me back in 2006 for filing grievances to "prove a point" lol

My opinion, leave it alone and mind your business. The union doesn't care, so why should anyone else. Nothing has changed, that is for sure!

I have been around sorts for a long, long time. I have not seen a whole lot of success in keeping supervisors from working at will. I do know one thing, the minute they have to include their package handling time into their operations is the minute they will stop working. They do this, and all management levels know they do this, so they can falsely represent the man hours in their operations. I don't know of any supervisor who ever put a time card in for handling packages even though they said it was required Wink. Wink. Nudge Nudge.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I have been out of sorts for a long, long time... Wink. Wink. Nudge Nudge.

 

[PE Pro]

 

[tieguy]

Refer to post 46

I did. until the international audits enforcement to ensure uniformity it seems my answer would have to be the same. Since they choose not to its clear the international has given each local the autonomy to enforce as they see fit.

 

[JonFrum]

I did. until the international audits enforcement to ensure uniformity it seems my answer would have to be the same. Since they choose not to its clear the international has given each local the autonomy to enforce as they see fit.

You want the IBT to audit each Local to insure they are enforcing the Collective Bargaining Agreements by filing grievances whenever the Agreements are violated. OK. I'll pass them the word.

 

[tieguy]

You want the IBT to audit each Local to insure they are enforcing the Collective Bargaining Agreements by filing grievances whenever the Agreements are violated. OK. I'll pass them the word.

with you and me pushing it I'm sure that will happen quickly