Question about job titles and does that mean you only do that job

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by msuspar2003, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. msuspar2003

    msuspar2003 New Member

    I am just curious about this. So I load trailers and have been for 2 years and now the building seems to be shorted staffed and they always want someone to go to unload. The belt I am on is already short on people too. My question is can I refuse to go to unload because my job is a feeder loader? Does article 22.4 (preferred jobs) section mean that I don't have to go to unload since my job title is feeder loader? I am interested on knowing more about what we actually have to put up with. Wish I could find my union book.
     
  2. RogerThat

    RogerThat Operations Supervisor

    You are not in a bid position. You are a UPS employee working the entry level position of loader/unloader. THAT is your job title. Go log into upsjobs.com... Click my inquires, and type in your SS#. It will show you that the job you applied for is loader/unloader. However, that isn't even my point. My point is that you should quit crying and just do what is expected of you. This thing you have to "put up with" is your job. If you don't want to complete the job that you were hired to do then I suggest you find a new place to work.
     
  3. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Normally, if someone has to be moved from his bid position, it should be the employee with the least seniority.

    But be advised, if you are given a direct order you must follow it, no matter how stupid or unfair, so long as it isn't dangerous or illegal. The rule is "work now, grieve later." UPS is a dictatorship, as RogerThat makes clear above. The Union can fix things, but only after the fact. The Company gets to violate the Contract all it wants. But then, after the damage is done, you get to have your Steward attempt to fix the matter. And if that isn't enough, you can file a written grievance and get your Business Agent involved.
     
  4. Buffaloaf

    Buffaloaf New Member

    No. Art. 22.4 is referring to transfers. It is saying that if you are in the feeder load and want to transfer to unload or the sort aisle, UPS has to go by seniority and that they can not hire a new hire into the position that you are trying to transfer to without transferring you first (unless it's peak seasonal hiring, I believe since that person is not permanently going to be filling a job there). So long as you are a hub employee, you are expected to do hub work (assuming you are trained for the job). If you want to give the management a hard time, you could complain call it a safety issue if you have not been trained on unload methods. That might only get you out of a night of it, though since they could train you on it relatively quickly.
     
  5. sortAISLErules

    sortAISLErules Time Is Money And Money Is Scarce

    Work as directed. If you have a problem doing work you are not normally assigned then consult with your union steward afterwards, chances are he/she will tell you to work as directed. Do not go looking for a fight unless you want to make yourself a pet project of some center manager or sup.
     
  6. sortAISLErules

    sortAISLErules Time Is Money And Money Is Scarce

    Pass that along to your fellow sups. They do a lot of crying about what is and is not their job description too.
     
  7. RogerThat

    RogerThat Operations Supervisor

    I agree with you. A lot of supervisors, and management in general do whine about what is expected of them. However, you are going to have that at any place of employment. Blue collar, white collar.... it doesn't matter. Some people love to bitch. Like the original poster of this thread :happy2:

    Buffaloaf, while you are correct, remember that he is not currently holding a bid position and is being sent to complete hub work in another non bid position. The contract is not being violated in any way what so ever. My original post probably seemed harsh, and I still stand by my remarks. In this case, management is playing by the rules, and the OP is still looking to avoid carrying his own weight in work. As teamsters, you should be ashamed to have members like this. I see these types of workers on a daily basis, and they are the ones who truly feed the sterotypical lazy teamster lines.
     
  8. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    I'm not so sure it is laziness, are you that sure? Some people just want to do their job and go home. I'm sure others in the load are kept , with less seniority, and this person goes to the unload. Personally, I would keep a happy face and work as directed and at a fair days pace. NO better way to deal with the FT sup than to smile and work slowly and happily.
     
  9. Buffaloaf

    Buffaloaf New Member

    So then am I just correct? I never said or insinuated that he was in a bid position or said that the contract was being violated. I just explained what the Art. 22.4 was referring to (job transfers). I'm not sure if the last part of your post is directed at me or not (I'm assuming it is because you are using the second person after referring to me in the third person as the subject of your paragraph) -- but at any rate it doesn't really apply to me since I am also a supervisor; hence I am not a teamster.
     
  10. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    The Article 22.4 quote says you can move to (BID!) a different job if it is vacated. Obviously the person who had that job, and just vacated it, had a right to it. That's why you couldn't bump him out of the job. You had to wait until he vacated the job.

    Likewise, Msuspar2003 has a right to his present job which he has held for two years. He can't be bumped until he vacates the job.

    There is no annual bid for part-timers. Instead there is this system where everyone with more than six months seniority has there present job until they vacate it. After six months they can move to a job they prefer if one opens up and they are the top BIDDER.

    The principle of part-timers BIDDING jobs is so well documented that if a new job opens up, even a part-timer with less than six months seniority can BID that job before a New Hire is assigned it.

    Like all contractual rights at UPS, you have to assert them. You also have to evaluate if it is worth fighting under the specific circumstances. You don't have to go looking for a fight . Management will find you. And usually they will deny the Contract means what it says. Usually they will get worse over time. Appeasement doesn't work in foreign relations or domestic.
     
  11. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    I agree to a point with Roger. I don't think the first response needed to be harsh. But seriously, going to unload to load is a total and complete lateral transfer. Maybe they wanted him to unload because he kicks ass...who knows? Maybe they wanted him off the belt because he's a trouble maker and they wanted to pass the buck. Maybe they're just that short. Honestly it should be the lowest seniority member of the belt that gets sent away, but the point is, we don't know the actual situation. I would do it, but then bitch about the crap storm that happened to the belt while I was gone. But, I could always use the money you know!
     
  12. Buffaloaf

    Buffaloaf New Member

    Maybe it's the language in the word "transfer" that I'm using, but it seems pretty clear the article is referring to (for example) a person who works in the unload and would like to transfer to the load. They can put there name on a list and when a position is available they get to transferred to the job that they desire more -- which is also exactly what you described (which means we are on the same page and some sort of language semantics is blocking us from seeing that). I'm not saying that because they have that new work area, that that is the only thing they do, just that that is their "starting area" and then are required to work as directed from there (whether it is loading, bagging, unloading, irregs, sweeping, or whatever).
     
  13. KingofBrown

    KingofBrown Member

    Dude, I'm sure this is because of many lay offs. I think you should do as instructed, and I don't think there is a preferred position the way you're explaining it, because you're short of people, and if they need you to do something I think they can tell you to. On the other hand, work at your own pace, don't hesitate to get the job done, do it normally, you wouldn't want to get injured or something, remeber Safety First. I'm sure they'll see people is needed and they may recall many of the lay offs and you'll get your position back, since there will be people working on their positions and mangement won't be able to move you from your position, because there will be less Seniority employees. Keep it up!
     
  14. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    i dont think its working as instructed thats a problem but that im sure there are people with less senority than him and why not take them?ill tell you why because this guys faster,thats his reward.now to answer the question no you cant refuse to unload you must work as instructed,so when they come and get you to unload do as instructed and unload as slow as you can without stopping.the right thing to do is talk to your sup and tell him how you feel about unloading but more than likely your sup will be as close minded as RogerThat and could care less how you feel,then he will be the first person saying how much of a sh**bag you are for going slow when the whole situation could have been avoided if they only took someone who didnt mind unloading.
     
  15. p228

    p228 Member

    Normally, it is the slow employees and those that are misload problems that get sent to unload. Well, at least if the supervisor is smart. Reason being, your total hours are the same whether you send the slow or fast person. By keeping the faster employees they are able to process more work in less time which results in a higher PPH for your area. Sending your good employees to unload is a waste of talent since unload requires little skill as there is no load chart and you aren't building walls. All you have to do is take the packages out of the wall and put them on the belt.
     
  16. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    in a logical world that makes perfect sense,i wuldnt go so far to call loading a talent but still makes sense.the unload goes down faster with faster unloaders and that effects the whole sort not just one belt .look maybe this guy is slow or does get missloads and if thats the case should not wine to much about going to the unload but i have seen plenty of times when a fast loader is sent to the unload one night because they are short people and he is bad ass the unload wants this guy everynight now.ups does not put to much thought into its decessions if a guy unloads fast hes an unloader they might not ever look at his load numbers, to them we are all trained monkeys and can be replaced easly.i just get sick of all the work as directed no matter what ,do it till you break your back because thats your job.
     
  17. p228

    p228 Member

    How fast the unload goes down is of little importance to an outbound supervisor since they have their own area to worry about. The main reason employees get sent to other areas is to improve the area's numbers (PPH) or if unload is severely understand due to call outs. Should it be the latter reason there will be few packages coming through the system which means employees will end up standing around which is a waste of time and it kills the PPH.

    In either case, it is not wise, and here not common to send the best employees away since they are the ones that can cover multiple loads at once and they will help each other by putting up irregs and moving missorts without needing to be told every five minutes.
     
  18. Hubrat98

    Hubrat98 New Member

    As an outbound supervisor you do have the options of sending the "stud" or the "dud". It doesn't do anyone any good to send away the poor employee, suck it up and deal with your own problem employee. On the other hand, there are certain people that carry outbound belts and a supervisor needs these employees to survive the sort. The employees I usually send to help other areas are middle-of-the-road as far as performance, however, I try to choose people that can also be relied upon to do the job the right way without having to be babysat. If another supervisor needs staffing they already have their hands full. Never send a sinking ship an anchor.
     
  19. Buffaloaf

    Buffaloaf New Member

    Well, if I'm sending someone to another outbound belt, I normally send them my stud employee. If I'm sending someone to the unload I usually send them a dud simply because you don't need as good of employees there. Also, at least in our building, the difference between a good unloader and a bad outbound employee is that the bad outbound employee gets misloads. Since there isn't that measurement to worry about in the unload, they really arn't losing out on anything by getting an outbound "dud." For the most part, our average employee in the outbound would be a stud in the inbound -- but that is for my building and how we've arranged / prioritized our staffing.
     
  20. p228

    p228 Member

    As Buffaloaf said, Unload gets the duds since they are usually more useful there. I know of only one guy in my entire building in that every area he gets sent to complains that he does no work. Most of the time unload is just thankful for the extra people. The other problem with sending someone to unload is that it takes forever for them to return to the area when the volume goes up and we call them back. It could take even longer if they are on a different PF and the supervisor doesn't know the person's name.

    If another outbound belt is in trouble then I will try and send the person who has been in that area before. That way they can grab a scanner and start scanning a load which is more helpful than only loading.

    If an employee is sent to my area that I have never worked with before I try hard to not have them scan since I don't know if they are a misload problem. Sometimes, though, it can't be avoided. In that case they get salted as soon as they start scanning. Nothing is more fun than tearing down a wall to find a missed salt.