Question about offering days off?

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Would the kid like a washrag for his....................tears?

While I do agree that he has a vested interest in the senior guys retiring, you do have to admit that there are some guys who have either not prepared financially or psychologically for retirement or simply do not have a life outside of work.

I will be 58 when I have my 30 years. I am debt free other than my mortgage as of the end of last year. I have begun to re-focus on my 401k (25%) and hope to have at least $300K set aside when i retire. I also plan on working up to my 30 years and then taking all of my vacations, personal and sick days in a lump sum rather than determining my 30 year date and then working backwards to figure out my last working day, which is the way most of the guys do it.

My retirement date will also be my last day here on Brown Cafe.
 
It's well-documented that many Baby Boomers are continuing to work because they have to, not because they want to. Many have high debt, low savings & a lot have no pensions. So yes, their retirement planning was poor. And even though UPSers have generous pensions, many continue to work because they need the additional income - not because they want to.
What's it to you? You footing their tab? Would you prefer they retire on insufficient income and then need Govt (your tax dollars) help?

I certainly don't want higher seniority without putting in the time... I'm just commenting that the scheduled days off prolong the careers of people who would, and should, otherwise retire.

Should? Should, by who's standards? Your's? And yea you do want higher seniority without putting in the time. Someone's #1 on the board and you want them to hurry up and retire so you can move up...............without putting the same time in they did to get there.

Sure, you could characterize my nephew's 72-year-old teacher by saying 'God bless, it's a free country' but how effective is somebody who rejects modern technologies and doesn't relate to her students? No doubt younger workers are -- generally -- more effective and productive than their elders.
Does that teacher meet all the requirements of the job? Capable and able to meet what is required of them by the job? Then age is just a number. Younger workers more effective and productive? Did they have to look that up on their technology while an old school worker runs rings around them?

I don't advocate Occupy UPS, but I don't understand a society in which a 70-year-old continues to work in order to pay his $200/month cable bill and fund trips to the casino... while his 35-year-old son lives with him because he can't find work.
You most certainly are. What your higher seniority co-worker does with his paycheck is none of your business. As what you do with yours is none of his. You just worry that YOU show up for work, do the job by the methods, safely, and earn your place in the world as he did.

Then hold them to the same standards.
We are. Same numbers on the report that they want met. Same safe driving requirements. Same attendance numbers. And guess what. They have been doing it longer than you.

Don't send me out with 30-50 more stops on the same route as the 70-year-old.
Maybe you get more stops because you run your ass off Mr. Jackrabbit. You taking your lunch? You following all the methods? You have the same safety record as he?

Make the 70-year-old teacher use modern technology (hello, notebook computers and graphing calculators!!).
How do you know they don't? What you think just because of their age they teach mathematics on a abacus? Do you have to now Google what that is, sonny? While you're at it Google the ages of the inventors of that tech you mentioned. Are they older or younger than you?

Welcome to 2012.
Age of the generation ME. I want yet don't deserve. Covet yet have not yet earned.

And what becomes of you when you hit a certain age? What if the new kid sets a lower number for you? You gonna roll over and submit or are you going to fight for what you have put the time in for and have earned? It was the same for those before you, it's the same for you, and will be the same for those after you (probably worse). Don't like it? Door's marked EXIT with your name on it.
There's a saying I like. "You see an old dog. I see a dog smart (and experienced) enough to get old".

I don't know you. I'm not looking to start a fight. But I will stand my ground. So this can go one of two ways.

1) Sorry kid. It is what it is. It's been that way since the beginning. It will be that way after you. Put in YOUR time and let the company worry about it's employees. HOPE the same considerations are still in place when it's your turn. Want some advice? There's lots of us senior guys on here who'll help you out. But put your hand down and stop whining. You'll still get a check that clears and what you have earned based on your years of service.

2) There's the door. Fudge or walk.
 
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While I do agree that he has a vested interest in the senior guys retiring, you do have to admit that there are some guys who have either not prepared financially or psychologically for retirement or simply do not have a life outside of work.

Then give them a percentage of your earnings to help them cover their bills. Be a stand up guy and do it within your center with your own coworkers. No? Then don't worry about his bill for spank-tra-vision or whether he is ready mentally. As long as they're not a danger to you or themselves worry about yourself.

I will be 58 when I have my 30 years. I am debt free other than my mortgage as of the end of last year. I have begun to re-focus on my 401k (25%) and hope to have at least $300K set aside when i retire. I also plan on working up to my 30 years and then taking all of my vacations, personal and sick days in a lump sum rather than determining my 30 year date and then working backwards to figure out my last working day, which is the way most of the guys do it.
Congrats. Good for YOU. Unfortunately or fortunately every one is different. Different needs and wants. Worry about YOU. Pass on your wisdom to your lovely daughter and help her be someone who is capable of retiring as early as she can to enjoy her life. The both of you can pass it on to the grandkids.

My retirement date will also be my last day here on Brown Cafe.
I will miss it if you do. While we don't always see eye to eye I enjoy having reasonable debates with you as opposed to some others. You have your place of contribution.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
"My retirement date will also be my last day here on Brown Cafe. " (upstate)

Yeah, just like you were gonna send me your week's check to pay the bet. Liar, liar!!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Whatever---if you don't know what is being discussed then why in the world would you post in the thread?

A "dead day" is a day off taken without pay.
I told you already....I replied to what you said about leaving BC. When you bring up something, response to it is "the topic" too.
 

Southwestern

Well-Known Member
What's it to you? You footing their tab? Would you prefer they retire on insufficient income and then need Govt (your tax dollars) help?

Billions of dollars have been spent on aid to assist young adults who've been unable to find sufficient work -- and billions more will likely be spent. Instead of forming households (you know... purchasing homes, and paying for all the bills that go with it.... the kinda stuff that creates/supports jobs), they're living with their parents. If their parents weren't stupid enough to purchase homes they could't afford in their 50s, or spend beyond their means via credit cards, home equity lines, etc., they'd be retired. Instead, they're working and #$@%! every minute about it.

Should? Should, by who's standards? Your's? And yea you do want higher seniority without putting in the time. Someone's #1 on the board and you want them to hurry up and retire so you can move up...............without putting the same time in they did to get there.

If you're retirement-eligible (you know... collecting social security, medicare, etc.), still working and $@%@ about it every minute, then yes, you should be retired. I encounter elderly people who complain about having to work every day... but they can't let go of their $200/month cable bill, the idea of driving in an older vehicle, retreats to their weekend home, etc. Who really lives in the "ME" generation?
-I bought a home that's affordable to me and set-up a plan to pay it off. I won't suddenly decide at 60 that I'm entitled to an expensive lakefront home in which I'll be working beyond the grave to pay for.
-I drive nice cars, but I make certain I can afford the total ownership cost. I won't suddenly decide at 60 that I'm entitled to a Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Accord, etc. simply because that's what elderly people are suppose to drive.
-I enjoy my luxuries in life. I decide what I want, determine how I'm going to pay for it and sacrifice those that mean little to me. When I go out to eat, I enjoy family-friendly establishments and save posh ones for special occasions. I don't stomp my feel, feel entitlement, whip out the plastic to pay for it and continue working to pay for it.
-I plan and delegate my income. Unless an emergency/catastrophe strikes, I'll never rely on debt to carry me. Nor will I complain into my 70s about having to work because I lived beyond my means my entire adult life.

And what becomes of you when you hit a certain age? What if the new kid sets a lower number for you? You gonna roll over and submit or are you going to fight for what you have put the time in for and have earned? It was the same for those before you, it's the same for you, and will be the same for those after you (probably worse). Don't like it? Door's marked EXIT with your name on it.
There's a saying I like. "You see an old dog. I see a dog smart (and experienced) enough to get old".[/quote[
I'll NEVER be of retirement age and #@%$% "...these people don't care about me. They don't care that my body aches. They work me like a dog." It'll NEVER happen. I'm smart enough to live within my means. They weren't. That's why they're still working. And I agree -- the exit door's had their name on it. They should've walked through it. Now they've called in the bouncer to throw them out. Too bad :-/.
 

HULKAMANIA

Well-Known Member
I could really give a rats ***** about someones seniority. You wouldnt sit there and take a screwing like that but you expect a low guy to. Yet Im sure you are one of the people who sits there and complains about what this company has become. Gee I wonder why, look at how you treat people just on here. OH NOT THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN, if you didnt like the posting then dont read it or reply to it. I really dont care if you get upset or bent out of shape by anything Im saying and Im sure everybody will jump on me for saying what Im saying and again I really dont care. When its my way of living, my credit, my bills, MY NAME at stake I take it personal. Its not fair to have someone ON CALL not being able to work, or GO FIND WORK!!! Seniority shouldnt give someone the RIGHT to screw someone else out of EVERY single option they have. People that said to file unemployment, OK how do you do that when they "GET YOU IN FOR ONE DAY"??? I was told that you CANT file unemployment if you work one day so Im screwed there. I cant bump into preload or local because I have NO inside seniority so theres number 2 option out. Finally number 3 is to go find ANOTHER JOB SO I CAN MAKE IT, but with an ON CALL status HOW???? Whether you are a seniority driver or not why dont you put yourself in someone elses shoes. OH I know I know you gotta start there, you gotta pay your dues blah frickity blah. I dont want to hear about the glory days or how you hiked 30 miles uphill both ways barefoot in the snow. I just want to be able to make it, without sitting here worrying, and if you cant understand that then I dont know what to tell you. To anybody this may offend it trully isnt my intention on doing so, but you have to understand how much of a freaking worry it is to sit here and go broke all because some jackass puts you on call and takes every single option you have.
 

HULKAMANIA

Well-Known Member
Cach I never said anything about hating older drivers. In fact I really like and get along with every single driver this center has, they are all a bunch of great guys. Like I said put yourself in the same TIMEFRAME, and in the same position and see just how you would feel. You have a family to PROVIDE FOR, you have BILLS that COME EVERY MONTH YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF! YOU CANT MAKE A LIVING ON CALL.
 

Johney

Well-Known Member
I don't see what this has to do at all with senior drivers taking a day off. Your management team is screwing you not the drivers above you on the seniority list. How can you not bump into preload or reload? You may be the lowest senior driver but you should still be able to bump a low senior part-timer or 2 to get your 8 hour guarantee. Please someone tell me if I'm wrong, but if you are full-time and they tell you to come in your guaranteed 8 hours unless YOU choose to go home. That is in the master correct? So if you don't drive you sweep feeders out. I know I've seen that before. Believe me they will fix your problem if you raise as much hell with them there as you do here. Not trying to be a jerk,but something just doesn't sound right.
 

HULKAMANIA

Well-Known Member
Johney no offense but tell me it wouldnt upset you? If Im on call they arent telling me to come in, they are expecting me to sit next to my phone every single day waiting for the call that doesnt come. The pt stuff, is because technically Im classified as an off the street hire even though I had over 3 years in, so thats the reasoning to that. I really dont want to explain all of that on here but thats the reasoning behind all of that.
 
The "hates drivers" remark was a joke at More's and UpS' bickering.

I went back and read your original post and let me ask this. If they're letting senior guys take days off shouldn't you have a full weeks work? Five senior guys taking 1 day each is 5 for you, right? Or are you saying that of all the cover drivers you have the least seniority and there are no days of coverage left when it gets down to you?

I'm not making light of your position. And yea I do know what it's like. I was a swing driver (cover driver now) for all but 1 1/2 of my 6 1/2 years in package. It was never a matter of working. It was a matter of never getting a day off. Of getting every crap route that some senior driver came in and looked at how friend-ed it was and took the day off and and I had to bat clean up. Having 5 different crap routes in 5 different days. Getting loaned out to other centers to run their crap routes. Of having to continue to be a swing driver covering 1/2 a center because I was good at it while new drivers who sucked at the job had routes assigned to them.

Long story short is the vast majority of us have been in the same place you are more or less. But we did what we had to do, put the time in, and worked our way up the ladder. If you feel strongly about your situation then you need to organize and change it in your area. Beyond that I don't know what to tell you. If you were here you could have one of my days every week and there's plenty others that would take a day so you could have a full week. But seniority is what it is. Guys who have earned the perks will take them. you will be there some day and you will do the same.
 
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