Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours later

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by xr7cougar67, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. xr7cougar67

    xr7cougar67 New Member

    Needing help answering this question:

    I work the Preload in and today I was asked to stay for late air. Shift started at 4:00 AM and I was done by 7:50. As I was leaving, myself and a handful of others were asked to stay for late air, but we were going to have to c lock out and come back at 9:45. I asked the union steward about this and she said they weren't going to pay us to stand around and not do anything. She left me and said she called the BA and he said to do as they ask and clock out and if we were willing to work it go sit in the breakroom until late air arrived and we could file a grievance and get paid for the whole time we were there.

    My question is:
    IS this true and if so what article would back this up for filing a grievance if all the hours are not on the check?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
     
  2. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Seeing you were asked to do this, and told you'd be off the clock for 2 hours, I don't see a grievance. You didn't have to stay, you volunteered.
     
  3. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Management cannot enter in to side deals with the employees. Over its the same thing as them asking you to cover the letter boxes but they cannot be picked up for an hour and a half, but just take an extra unpaid lunch until than. Cant happen even if you agre, which you wouldnt.
     
  4. chopstic

    chopstic New Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    I hardly think this can be considered a "side-deal". If it truely was management asking, not telling, It can just be considered management offering you extra work IF you want it. The only issue may be if they offered this work in order of seniority as higher seniority worker have first dibs on extra work, or in this case, an extra shift.

    Of course its different if it wasn't actually a question, even though it may have been asked in question form. For example, my supervisor sometimes "asks" me to go unload a trailer, but I dont think I really have a choice in the matter. He's just ordering me to unload the trailer in a polite way.
     
  5. Funfact

    Funfact Well-Known Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Just a little advise in the future if they ask you to stay later but you need to punch while you wait tell you SUP NO !!!!!!!!
     
  6. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Xr7Cougar67, if you are going to work as an Air Driver and actually deliver those late airs, then Article 40 applies and you are to wait on the clock. Normally UPS will easily find work for you to do, like sweeping package cars and trailers, carwashing, or even watching some of those annual videos and certifications we all have to sit through.
    If you are not an Air Driver, and are just processing the late airs in the building, then check your regional Supplement. Here in New England, for example, there's language that says there can't be an unpaid gap in your workday, that you can't deadhead for a less-than-normal rate of pay, and that you would get time-and-one-half for a sixth punch in a workweek (under certain conditions).

    Although you are voluntarily agreeing to do the work, this is irrevelant. All work is voluntary. (Slavery was abolished a while back.) Only bargaining unit members are permitted to do the work, so the Company must find willing bargaining unit workers and offer the work by seniority.

    If it looks like your day will be long enough, management can require you to take an unpaid lunch, but not a long lunch.
     
  7. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    The problem I see , was the work offered seniority top/down, forced bottom up?

    Also, since these employees clocked out and clocked back in, this would indicate to me that the employees should be given another 3.5 hour guarantee as it is now "double shifting".
     
  8. NotGonnaTakeIt

    NotGonnaTakeIt New Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    There is no shift guarantee, just a daily guarantee of 3.5 hours, or whatever it says in their local agreement.
     
  9. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    You have looked into the OPs local supplement?
     
  10. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    All employees covered by this Agreement shall be paid for all time spent in
    service of the Employer. Rates of pay provided for by this Agreement shall
    be minimums. Time shall be computed from the time that the employee is
    ordered to report for work and registers in and until the employee is
    effectively released from duty.
    All time lost due to delays as a result of
    overloads or certificate violations involving federal, state or city regulations,
    which occur through no fault of the driver, shall be paid for by the
    Employer.

    Basically, when the employee punches out, they are released from duty therefore their shift duty is done. Once punching back in, that is a different shift. My point is, the work should be offered by seniority firstly, and PERHAPS also if instructed to punch out and back in after a 2 hour layoff, they should be offered 3.5 hours guarantee, as it is a different punch as they were released from their shift duty .

    The language implies this - at least IMO. Either the company cannot have a part-timer punch out and punch back in, they must pay them straight through - or they must pay them another 3.5 hours. Whether this is a correct interpetation is another matter, and a supplement may have more to do.
     
  11. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    But this is the National Master language that says your 3.5 hour guarantee is, like the vitamin, one-a-day.

     
  12. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    When I double-shifted as a part-timer, I was gauranteed 3.5 hours twice a day. Usually you are correct but not this time.

    I wonder if the OPs supplement has a hand in the answer?..
     
  13. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    You may have gotten it, but it was not contractually required.
     
  14. jalnar

    jalnar Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    The biggest problem here I see is if no one agrees mgmt will do it their self. No grievance will be effective because the late air has to get done and the work was offered to hourlys and all said no. This is considered extra work by seniorty of course. By being there any work a sup does and you are quailified to don its yours. Take the work if you can even if it is for a short time. They want all houlys to say no so they can do it and save money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    as a union member you should insist they force the work on the most junior person available rather then let management do the work.
     
  16. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    That's what the grievance is for. You know as well as I, all of the insisting in the world does not change managements mind of how things are managed.

    The grievance should do the insisting.
     
  17. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    all the responses to the op seem to overlook the most important point here.the steward should have had a talk with the preload manager about this.you all keep saying they asked you but you all know they meant do it or dont work it,thats not right.look i used to come in early for special sorts before the regular sort and they would be 2 hrs before the regular start time.now sometimes these special sorts would not last these full two hrs and they would say all right everyone clock out and then return at the start time,this was to avoid o/t.now at the time we had a REAL UNION STEWARD that fought tooth and nail for people.she got this straight and everbody got paid for the whole time.somebody said a stupid comment that ups would not pay you to stand around,their is always busy work to be done,you could pick up bags,stack tote boxes etc.
     
  18. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Correct. And what the steward faught tooth and nail for is "dead time", which is paid time standing around between duties.
     
  19. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    That's a dick move... I was once forced to work a shift because I was the low guy on seniority. As a result I missed my cousin's wedding.

    I would have much rather let management take the shift.
     
  20. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Re: Question about PTers working hours having to clock out and come back 2 hours late

    Well, with a national divorce rate of 50%, chances are 1 in 2 you'll be there for his next wedding.