Question about the union....

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by saugie333, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. saugie333

    saugie333 New Member

    I have been a loader for about 4 months now in Fort Wayne, IN. Today, I saw something that bugged me. We were just about done filling a trailer except for a cart full of bulk packages. My supervisor (non-union) told me to stay in the trailer while he threw the bulk up to me to load. One of the semi drivers saw him lifting the boxes up to me and was completely angered by this and made him stop since my supervisor was non-union. At the time, all of the loaders in the area were busy from the amount of flow we were getting so I couldn't get help from them and since my all my supes are non-union, I had no help lifting large, 120+ pound boxes up to the trailor. Not only did that driver slow down the process he wouldn't even help me after causing this unnecessary conflict. I just don't understand why there is a rule for non-union workers and touching packages. Can anyone explain how this works and why?? And, why would it anger a driver that bad?? I have heard that I could get paid by documenting the times that supervisors load (filing a grievance i guess), but I wouldn't do that anyways because it keeps the belts running and everything running smoothly. Everyone I have asked this to says that "they are taking away our union work". I just dont get the legalities of this. If anyone is bored, shoot me a response that more clearly explains that. Thanks!

    Scott
     
  2. chev

    chev Nightcrawler

    This rule is to protect union jobs. We can't have supervisors performing union work which in turn causes a loss of union jobs. If they can do the work, then they don't need you.

    I honestly don't have a problem with a sup helping an hourly move an overweight when there is no other hourly available, but the driver that made a stink about it should have stepped up and helped. I do all the time.:thumbup1: Feeder drivers are no better than the other hourly employees. I like to help when I can. It helps me to remember where I started. :)
     
  3. 30andout

    30andout New Member

    Yes the feeder driver should have helped you with the over 70s, but his point is if this happening frequently another hourly person should be hired.
     
  4. $killed Labor

    $killed Labor New Member


    That is very true. Man if it wasn't for my supervisor, our area would be crap. We can't keep no help as it is. And if we ask for help from any of the guys in the back, they act like our supervisor is invisible on the radio. Buuut if they need help our guys have to go no matter what.
    Blah anyways, a supervisor can help you if no other barging unit is around to help. You are not supposed to lift stuff like you did with out help. You should have told that driver, "Well I have no help get over here and help me since you are a union man."
    Yeah our centers might need help, but I know our center cant keep help at all. People don't want to work that hard for the money. So you can let your area run all to hell. Have packages everywhere, piled out the butt over the belts in the floor.
    Its not that they NEED to hire more people. They cant keep people. So that supervisor needs to get some balls and say, well file on me,but I'm not going let my good worker get hurt. Thats what mine does. He has asked for more helped. Took picures how our area is with no help. It has done no good. We ran our section with 3-4 people when we need at least 6 most of the summer.

    Our reload Sup told my area Sup, when we are low in help he has to work. So my supervisor "works as instructed". They have had it out and out. Filing grievance's done no good in our area.
     
  5. 1980

    1980 Member

    Sup should have keep his hands in his pocket,feeder driver should have helped!
     
  6. cpio

    cpio New Member

    When supervisors work, you lose money. Even your part-time stupidvisor is on salary. They get special incentives for getting you off the clock as soon as possible, thus running their department under budget. If supervisors were supposed to work, there would be far less union jobs at UPS.

    According to the National Master Agreement, the company and union agree that a supervisor's job is to supervise you and not to work. That includes supervisors being forbidden from setting up the departments before the beginning of the shift. They're not supposed to be setting up rollers, backing package cars up to the lines or anything like that. The company also agrees that they won't order managers and other non-union employees to perform union work. Your solution:

    When you see a supervisor working, make note of what job they were doing and for how long, and find out if any other union members witnessed it. See your shop steward at the end of your shift and tell them you want to file a grievance. If you file a grievance and feel as if you are being excessively supervised, assigned more difficult work, harassed or experience any other poor treatment in retaliation, file another grievance.
     
  7. SWK78

    SWK78 Optimized

    When ever my supervisor helps out, I pretty much watch his dumb a**!

    Being paid salary and coming out on the dock to lift stuff is plan old stupid of his/herself. Of course, this type of thing does not happen all the time and thats why I just watch when it does.

    We have 4 dock workers here at UPS Freight/Overnite in Massachusetts and I am responsible for 1 day freight getting out as-well as the freight heading towards the south. (Two day freight also!)

    I have to help the two people responsible for 3 and 4 day freight as well. Because these employees just cannot seem to stop floor-loading everything they take out of city-trailers.

    Our lead-dock-man is the 'Milk Man' and is responsible for his own very tiny section out of all our freight that comes in. Bad part is, we all help him load his sh**!

    The supervisor is the Lead-Man's hang-out buddy after work. So pretty much, when the supervisor is out helping us on the dock, he is helping the Lead-Man (Bed-Buddy!) That's why I watch when he helps and do not help him.

    We are not Union, so I guess this dont mean to much to us at the moment with the supervisor helping and all, but I myself cannot wait for the Union to step in. This will stop all the back-stabbing going on in Overnite with Supervisors and Lead Dock Men w/ their employees.

    Also, we have to be able to lift 100lbs and thats so if we have to load or un-load a truck for our-selves or a customer, it happens. So do not feel bad since your's is 70lbs.

    I help all customers, dock workers and truck drivers. It's the supervisors and managers I refuse to help. When I can get away with it!:wink:

    P.S
    Lead-Man works as long as he wants.
    I work around 6to10hrs when poss..
    3rd Guy: 2 hours
    4th Guy: 2 1/2 hours to 3 (maybe)

    Where does all the work lie when we get up to 240 bills starting at 5:00pm and has to be done by 10:00pm?

    Most of this does not matter to you, but I felt like sharing it. Does this happen working for UPS? Or is it just the Freight people dealing with this problem?
     
  8. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    You sound like perfect P/T sup material. And the feeder driver was an :censored2: for not helping you.

    The best way I handle P/T sups in my center that I see moving boxes, I ask them "hey let me do that." and they always say sure, go ahead. Even though I'm a clerk, I sometimes unload package cars when they are short handed because I do not want the sup touching the boxes.

    I'll take any work I can usually.
     
  9. disneyworld

    disneyworld Active Member

    My experience is the feeder drivers(well,some of them)stand there and bitch because the trailer isn't ready for him to leave but they never touch a package to speed up the process.
     
  10. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    The loader doesn't drive my feeder and I don't load his trailer.
    I don't want him/her filing on me for doing his/her work.
    What if I get hurt moving pkgs, climbing up/down etc.....then that load doesn't move.
    Do we want that?
     
  11. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I don't want the feeder driver loading a trailer either, but he damn well can help lift some over 70s when he's just standing there waiting.

    I stood there listening to this exact exchange one night, with the feeder driver saying, "well, I don't want to steal anyones job". What he meant was he was too lazy and could get away with it. I got :censored2: and told him to get his fat, lazy :censored2: out of the way, and I helped the loader.

    <Sorry, sore spot with me>
     
  12. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    And why didn't the P/T management person order the Feeder Driver to pick up the packages? I thought we as "bargaining units" were supposed to work as directed. If you are making 100K a year, getting your hands dirty every once in a while doesn't seem to be too much to ask. And I have gotten into arguements with P/T Supes that I don't work for telling me to do something. I have to admit that I don't know the fine line about if I have to obey a P/T Supe that I don't normally work with. The bottom line is that everyone's job in this company is to move a parcel from point A to point B. If a Teamster is available, they should help another "brother".:confused:1
     
  13. tieguy

    tieguy Banned


    Thats a good union man. Why beat around the bush with the above answer. Just tell him you're too lazy to help a brother out.
     
  14. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    Gosh....you're right again Tie!:lol:

    .....and when I get done helping that loader I will:
    -go over to smalls and see if they need any help;
    -run up to the boxline slide and see if they need any help sorting;
    -hurry over to the shop to see if the mechanics need any help;
    -call yard control and see if they have any moves to make;
    -saunter into IE and see if they need any help as I do have a degree, therefore I am qualfied;
    -confer with BD on any new prospects;
    -confer with the local airport regarding timely arrival of our planes;
    -check in with Security to assure sanctity;
    -check in with feeder managers such as yourself to assure the operation is running smooth.

    Do you get my point? Probably not, so I will draw a picture.
    I have my own responsibilities as do the above mentioned people. None of the aforementioned people have offered to pretrip my equipment, couple my trailers, check the paperwork etc. when I was late on my pull time (whether it was my fault or not).
     
  15. Teamster251

    Teamster251 PSST Drvr Local 251 PRORI


    Feeder Drivers are responsible and under pressure to make pull times, gate times, meet times etc. We been there done that. What help am I going to be pushing a packagre closer to you so you can scan it. Can't speed up the scanning process how does the loading process speed up?

    But I'm in complete agreement, the feeder driver that bitched should have lend the hand and told that sup to put it down and helped out.

    If the sup had a better understanding of the contract he would of known that he could have directed that Fedeer driver to help.
     
  16. Teamster251

    Teamster251 PSST Drvr Local 251 PRORI


    Your attitude is exactly why when most feeder drivers go into Chema they act just the way they do
     
  17. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    I've only been at UPS 8 years but I learned in the beginning that my paycheck never went up or down when a sup works. I remember the first week on the job all the die hard union women in smalls kept telling me to file when ever I see a sup touching packages in smalls or anywhere in the hub because they are stealing work from me when they do. I quickly came to the conclusion that I wouldn't really have the right or any justification in filing. The reason being that If I'm working up in smalls and a sup is working somewhere else then how do I have a right to complain? It's not like I can do my job in smalls and do whatever job they were doing at the same time.

    Most people that file for sups working are only doing so because they just want something for nothing ($$) and because they can't stand management. The supervisors not working rule was intended to keep UPS from replacing hourly employees to save money and to keep them from using sups to delay, or avoid, creating new jobs. The rule wasn't intended to be a free money dispensory for angry union employees.

    That feeder driver should have offered to help or kept his mouth shut. The only reason he would have a right to complain would have been if that sup had been helping move packages like that every night and enough to justifiy hiring another hourly employee. Otherwise...it's nothing. I'll never file for sups working unless they are purposley working to avoid using hourly people. Most of the time they just pitch in for a few minutes and if it is longer it is because some of our "brothers" that file for supervisors working don't bother to show up on the days they aren't filing. How ironic.
     
  18. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    I see supes working every night in the hub. They are either clearing jams, loading trailers, moving missorts or the usual other activities.
    The excuse is always like, "we are short handed", or "I'm training" or "to prevent a delay" or anything else they can pull out of their lower extremities.

    The company does this for a number of reasons:
    1) it's a jab at the union, the contract and organized labor;
    2) it indoctrinates and brain washes the poor PT supes that are working harder now than when they were hourly;
    3) it helps make the PT supes numbers look good (see #2);
    4) it keeps the environment in a constant state of upheaval;
    5) it perpetuates the "us versus them" mentality (see #4)
    6) it reinforces the PT supes self esteem.

    The company knows it's cheaper to pay a grievance than to hire another PT'er or two so.......keep filing.

    I don't think the agreed upon contract says "supes can work every once in a while" I think it says, to the effect, that supes will not work.......that's why they are called "supes".
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
  19. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    What a crock of sh#%. "supes" wouldn't have to work if the "employees" would show up to work. Lets keep this simple. We are always short handed. There are three things going on at UPS that are the source of the problem...

    1) Turnover is high at most buildings
    2) There is too much red tape to cut through to get replacements. HR is slow.
    3) The employees we do have are infested with dead beats that want to lay out of work twice a week.

    When supervisors step in its's because of layouts and people quiting and NOT because of an "us versus them" conspiracy. When UPS starts totally replacing us with supervisors THAT is when there is a problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
  20. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    The ability to follow a thought poses a problem for some people.
    I am curious about:
    2)
    3)