Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
Brevity has an eloquence all its own...
R1a Was Right!!
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
Brevity has an eloquence all its own...
No, I just know when to fight and when to cut my losses. Ranting on this forum isn't fighting. If you want to organize, go right ahead. Who's stopping you? But let's be truthful about the chances. Have you ever stood up to a director in a station meeting, telling him pay policies are unfair to midrange employees? That director suggested twice after the meeting that if I'm unhappy why don't I just leave? Are you still taking the SFA? I haven't the last two years and tell them I no longer participate because of what they are doing to us in midrange. I turned down a 10 year safe driving award last week, told my mgr I need better pay, they can keep all that other stuff. I haven't accepted an award in close to 8 or 9 years if I remember right. And told them why every time. Used to have a mgr who wanted to shake hands when she gave everyone their paychecks. Several weeks after transferring there I started refusing. Said it violated my conscience to do so. Made her mad. When we had a real chance to get out of the RLA I was talking about the benefits of getting a union for two years. Got plenty of looks and a few questions from mgrs. Difference between me and you is you want to control the message on our side. We must all be in lockstep together. That sounds an awful lot like the other side. I refuse. Want me to join "your" revolution? Show me we have the gov't and union backing that we absolutely must have in order for this to work. Until then this is just a bunch of chest thumping that's going absolutely nowhere.
overflowed
Well-Known Member
This is the convoluted thinking we must all bury if anyone wants a union. Stop thinking unfair to me, start thinking unfair to us.
But you thanked MFE for saying you made a determined effort to organize, then turned right around and said to me that you didn't try to organize. Well? I'm not asking for proof of anything, just wondering why you said two different things about the same thing?
Sorry, topped out employees make considerably more than midrange, have bigger pensions, they get more put into their retirement plan, they are pulling away from midrange with across the board percentage raises, are better able to fund their 401k, even get bigger little bonus checks every 6 months. There are haves and have nots at FedEx, and midrange employees are definitely not the haves. And when we talked about what kind of pay we could expect if we get a union the other day, it was said that the most senior employees would go to the new top pay, with the rest of us phased in over 10 years. More of the same falling on our swords for someone else's benefit. There's no "us" amigo.
overflowed
Well-Known Member
Wasn't busting you out Van. Just using your sentence as an example of how most think. Sorry to say you more than prove the point.
, you're right.Yes I proved that nothing's going to happen except alot of talk. Prove me wrong! But you're off point anyways. SPH says I'm all talk but I'm betting I've stuck my neck out more than he has. Everyone is a warrior on the computer.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
I promised myself not to... but this twit just deserves it...
So if he has cut his 'losses', why is he still complaining he is mistreated, intimidated, lied to, abused, misunderstood and God knows what else? If he has cut his losses, why doesn't he just go to the 'shearing shed' without too much fuss and let Fred's minions do their dirty work to him? What is he going to do, wiggle aggressively when being sheared?
That's right!!! He's not going to go out and do anything rash. YOU go out there and be 'all dangerous' and distribute those 'filthy' rep cards.
LMAO!!! Here's where that faulty judgment makes itself REAL EVIDENT!!! Why didn't he just take a leak on the director's shoe??? I mean, fair is fair after all?
And the director was right. Given our heroic twit's complete unwillingness to work for change, why in the hell didn't he just get out, if he feels so much hostility towards his employer??? Everyone in Express has heard the adage, "If you don't like the way things are, there's the door".
He's made up mind that 'powers to be' have sold him out; so if he has come to that realization, why bother resisting? Is it just so that he can delude himself into thinking he is doing something to 'resist' and therefore has no responsibility to do more?
That's telling them!!! That's REALLY being the howling wolf, striking fear into the hearts of corporate management.
And he wonders why management may have him targeted for 'getting rid of'? This isn't 'heroics', it is just plain stupidity.
I heard a story that once our heroic twit kicked some dirt around and actually raised his voice. Scary. I've never heard a sheep bleat so loudly.
And that is why they call it 'organized labor' and 'collective bargaining'. There are no solo acts out there. That is playing the employer's game. If someone wants a better deal, they have to work COLLECTIVELY with their coworkers to get it - and not think they are 'above' their coworkers or somehow they are 'more deserving'.
And thus you have the reason for your current financial circumstances and your 'plan' to run away to Costa Dumpa to retire. It is a plan, I must admit...
Ah yes... "I want guarantees IN WRITING before I'll even think about doing something drastic like signing a rep card".
I heard that before. Reference my 'demographic' of Couriers in another thread....
So if he has cut his 'losses', why is he still complaining he is mistreated, intimidated, lied to, abused, misunderstood and God knows what else? If he has cut his losses, why doesn't he just go to the 'shearing shed' without too much fuss and let Fred's minions do their dirty work to him? What is he going to do, wiggle aggressively when being sheared?
That's right!!! He's not going to go out and do anything rash. YOU go out there and be 'all dangerous' and distribute those 'filthy' rep cards.
LMAO!!! Here's where that faulty judgment makes itself REAL EVIDENT!!! Why didn't he just take a leak on the director's shoe??? I mean, fair is fair after all?
And the director was right. Given our heroic twit's complete unwillingness to work for change, why in the hell didn't he just get out, if he feels so much hostility towards his employer??? Everyone in Express has heard the adage, "If you don't like the way things are, there's the door".
He's made up mind that 'powers to be' have sold him out; so if he has come to that realization, why bother resisting? Is it just so that he can delude himself into thinking he is doing something to 'resist' and therefore has no responsibility to do more?
That's telling them!!! That's REALLY being the howling wolf, striking fear into the hearts of corporate management.
And he wonders why management may have him targeted for 'getting rid of'? This isn't 'heroics', it is just plain stupidity.
I heard a story that once our heroic twit kicked some dirt around and actually raised his voice. Scary. I've never heard a sheep bleat so loudly.
And that is why they call it 'organized labor' and 'collective bargaining'. There are no solo acts out there. That is playing the employer's game. If someone wants a better deal, they have to work COLLECTIVELY with their coworkers to get it - and not think they are 'above' their coworkers or somehow they are 'more deserving'.
And thus you have the reason for your current financial circumstances and your 'plan' to run away to Costa Dumpa to retire. It is a plan, I must admit...
Ah yes... "I want guarantees IN WRITING before I'll even think about doing something drastic like signing a rep card".
I heard that before. Reference my 'demographic' of Couriers in another thread....
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
I thanked him in getting out an accurate explanation of my history. I wasn't 'thanking him' for stating that I made an effort to organize. I didn't try to organize FEDEX, the whole damn company - as you tried to make it sound like. I did what I could at the location I was at.
A hell of a lot more than you'll ever do in your life.
He wrote one line, you said thank you.
I get it now. You slink around behind the scenes instead of standing up for yourself. You talk about how stupid it is to be vocal but I'm still here. And you can't stand it that you don't have the guts to do that. And you are still selling false hope. You know that there's no chance of getting a union yet you lead these people on because you love the attention. I've consistently stood up for my values, something you just don't understand. Sad.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
MrFedEx clarified the misconception that I didn't 'die', get fired or 'got scared' (there was another issue which I have explained to others in PM). The original poster was attempting to make an inference that I was somehow connected to the buyouts (which I wasn't) and that is what explained (in his mind) my choosing not to post.
I left Express in 2010, WAY BEFORE the announcement of buyouts were made in autumn 2012.
MrFedEx chose the language, "a very determined organizing effort at Express", which may have given some looking to nit pick (like yourself) the impression that I did a hell of a lot more than I actually could as a Courier.
To satisfy your desire to pick at nits, a better worded explanation on MrFedEx's part would've been, "he had made a very determined organizing effort at his station and surrounding stations."
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
And this is where you just don't get it while simultaneously betraying your true beliefs in regards to your fellow Couriers.
You don't consider yourself part of 'these' people. You are above them, are more worthy than they, have worked harder than they.
Without 'these' people, NONE OF YOU will ever get a better deal. Yet, your own self-loathing prevents you from recognizing yourself for what you are.
Put aside your denigration of organized labor and do what would be best not only for 'these people' but for yourself in the process.
Or are you unable to 'lower yourself' to such depths as to identify yourself as one who supports organized labor, or God forbid, one day potentially being referred to as a "Teamster"? You'd have to take 5 showers a day to cleanse yourself from that filth...
B.S. Dr. Freud. It's not the unions or union workers I feel above, it's sleezeballs like you. You know you don't have a leg to stand on, so attack the messenger instead of disproving the message. It's what guys like you always do. I will gladly vote yes for a union, but don't see one ever materializing that I can vote for. You can attack all you want, but you can't get around the fact that as soon as the Republicans won the House the Teamsters gave up on FedEx Express. They aren't waiting around for us to prove how worthy we are because it's a futile waste of time. But prove me wrong, this is a subject I'd like to be dead wrong about, I want to be able to vote for one, I want to participate. And as soon as I seen Teamster reps outside my station and hear about them at other stations I will.
So what is the difference between 59Dano and me who SPH calls "anti union" and what is being posted in this thread? Seems to me that we are all under the impression that Fred has things just where he wants them and that Express couriers are not motivated enough to change their plight in any meaningful way.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
You're right, Fred has things just where he wants them and the Express Couriers are not motivated enough to change their plight in any meaningful way.
So the question becomes: Who is to blame for the Couriers' current 'plight'?
Those who want, can blame everyone/thing around them: Congress, Fred S, IBT, American people, Republicans, you name it - there is blame to go around.
But the one group the Couriers DON'T want to pin any blame on.... is themselves.
The drivers in Ground have no options should they choose that job. The misuse of the intent of the independent contractor statutes has them stuck. They only have two options - leave or accept what they are given.
The Express Couriers (compared to the Ground drivers), do have a third option - to take it upon themselves to organize.
But that takes some work, self motivation, discipline, willingness to commit to time outside of work, a bit of guts and above all a recognition that only as a collective can they achieve anything. From what has been seen around here in the past couple of weeks, practically none of the Couriers are willing to do that - thus all the endless circles of talk and no commitment to action. Most take that gawkers approach, and are going to sit on the fence waiting for someone else to do the work and THEN, after the potential battle is nearing its completion, they'll join in and get what they are so richly deserving of.
Just doesn't work that way given the current lay of the land.
With the way things 'currently are', I just don't see any chance of change. But who's to blame? Is it the Couriers who choose inaction rather than taking up the cause to better their compensation, or is it one of the above listed entities, conspiring to keep rep cards out of the hands of Couriers?
I'd imagine if the Ground drivers were somehow immediately classified as employees of Ground, that EVEN IF the IBT didn't do a damn thing, the newly classified employees of Ground would take it upon themselves to get rep cards in. Many like to 'kick' the Ground drivers (they're not the 'angels' of Express...), but if the Ground drivers were to find themselves one day as actual employees of Ground, they'd find a way real quick to organize and put a stop to 50 hour weeks for $600 an no benefits.
And I think this explains the fence sitting of Express Couriers. Most know they are worth more to Express than they are being compensated for, but most are also fearful of losing what they have, in order to TRY to get something more.
If the Ground drivers were in the situation of being paid their current compensation, BUT being classified as employees of Ground (and let's say they were somehow under RLA), I'd bet they'd go all out to organize even with the obstacle of the RLA - they don't have much to lose.
And that is the game that Fred plays. Give the Express Couriers less than they are worth (to improve his profit margins), but JUST ENOUGH to make a majority fearful of losing what they have. Combine that with the implied (and sometimes open) intimidation that is presented by management with regards to organizing - and the status quo is supported.
So the question becomes: Who is to blame for the Couriers' current 'plight'?
Those who want, can blame everyone/thing around them: Congress, Fred S, IBT, American people, Republicans, you name it - there is blame to go around.
But the one group the Couriers DON'T want to pin any blame on.... is themselves.
The drivers in Ground have no options should they choose that job. The misuse of the intent of the independent contractor statutes has them stuck. They only have two options - leave or accept what they are given.
The Express Couriers (compared to the Ground drivers), do have a third option - to take it upon themselves to organize.
But that takes some work, self motivation, discipline, willingness to commit to time outside of work, a bit of guts and above all a recognition that only as a collective can they achieve anything. From what has been seen around here in the past couple of weeks, practically none of the Couriers are willing to do that - thus all the endless circles of talk and no commitment to action. Most take that gawkers approach, and are going to sit on the fence waiting for someone else to do the work and THEN, after the potential battle is nearing its completion, they'll join in and get what they are so richly deserving of.
Just doesn't work that way given the current lay of the land.
With the way things 'currently are', I just don't see any chance of change. But who's to blame? Is it the Couriers who choose inaction rather than taking up the cause to better their compensation, or is it one of the above listed entities, conspiring to keep rep cards out of the hands of Couriers?
I'd imagine if the Ground drivers were somehow immediately classified as employees of Ground, that EVEN IF the IBT didn't do a damn thing, the newly classified employees of Ground would take it upon themselves to get rep cards in. Many like to 'kick' the Ground drivers (they're not the 'angels' of Express...), but if the Ground drivers were to find themselves one day as actual employees of Ground, they'd find a way real quick to organize and put a stop to 50 hour weeks for $600 an no benefits.
And I think this explains the fence sitting of Express Couriers. Most know they are worth more to Express than they are being compensated for, but most are also fearful of losing what they have, in order to TRY to get something more.
If the Ground drivers were in the situation of being paid their current compensation, BUT being classified as employees of Ground (and let's say they were somehow under RLA), I'd bet they'd go all out to organize even with the obstacle of the RLA - they don't have much to lose.
And that is the game that Fred plays. Give the Express Couriers less than they are worth (to improve his profit margins), but JUST ENOUGH to make a majority fearful of losing what they have. Combine that with the implied (and sometimes open) intimidation that is presented by management with regards to organizing - and the status quo is supported.
Last edited:
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Here's a little history lesson for both of you. The organization effort failed in 1996-97 because Fred S successfully had the Express Carrier Exemption language snuck into the FAA Reauthorization Act literally at the last minute by his political buddies. This let the RLA live-on, at which point the Teamsters just vanished. It was not the extra money tossed at topped-out couriers that made the difference, it was the legislation.
I had approached our Teamsters local back in 1995 along with 2 of my fellow disenchanted couriers. We met with 2 of their reps several times over lunch, and I met with their entire organizing team because my route had the IBT office on it and it was easily accessible to me on break. I'd park around the corner, and walk a block so management wouldn't see a FedEx van parked in the IBT lot.
We were assured legal support if we were fired, and placement in a Teamster job if necessary, so we began "informational meetings" at local halls and sometimes at neutral locations like restaurants close to stations. Attendance averaged 15-20 people, with an occasional manager or unknown person we would ask to leave, and then physically eject, as needed. All of the managers we caught were busily scribbling down the names of people they recognized. The biggest fear was that managment would retaliate against those in attendance, a very real possibility.
Soon after, I began to be followed, both on my route, and in my personal vehicle. Once, I was able to get behind the following vehicle, and was led to the home of a manager from another station, whom I knew. Let's just say they were surprised when I rang the doorbell and told them they needed to stop tailing me. Eventually, I found out this manager had been assigned to monitor me, and had to give weekly reports to the MD and Memphis. My two other friends were similarly harassed.
At work, I began to get extra stops, and my performance was monitored very closely. I had to be very careful to do everything on the up and up. The same held true for the other two "leaders".
We kept holding meetings, and despite Teamster assurance that a rep would be there, they never showed. They had promised that reps would be outside stations handing out cards and information...never happened. Even though the national had decreed that there was an organization drive, the Teamster effort was weak, at least in my location.
One day, the MD walked up to me on the belt and mentioned the raise topped-out people received, and he asked me if that would be enough to stall the drive to organize. I said "no". and walked away.
Shortly thereafter, Fred successfully got his special language inserted into the FAA Bill, and the Teamsters disappeared. I was really starting to get harassed, and I wanted to take them up on the offer of a Teamster job. "No longer on the table", was the answer. Me and my two friends were hung out to dry. One of them got canned after being targeted for a long time, and the other barely kept his job. No legal support...nothing.
Here's the point, which is the IBT plays dirty too. I hate that they are the only game in town and that they have been so weak and wavering on the whole issue of organizing Express. They don't understand the Express culture, which is like WalMart in that it means bad things if you are identified as an organizer. The IBT simply doesn't understand this, and I don't think they ever will.
Until we overcome the intimidation game that Fred plays, we won't get a union. The status quo R1a mentions seems firmly in-place for the time being. If the IBT really is the only game in town, we have to play by their rules, even if it means holding our noses as we do.It's possible, but unlikely that another union will be interested because the IBT has a corner on "drivers". Signing cards and sharing information are both key, and we cannot stop the effort.
Anything we do to thwart Fred is a good thing.
I had approached our Teamsters local back in 1995 along with 2 of my fellow disenchanted couriers. We met with 2 of their reps several times over lunch, and I met with their entire organizing team because my route had the IBT office on it and it was easily accessible to me on break. I'd park around the corner, and walk a block so management wouldn't see a FedEx van parked in the IBT lot.
We were assured legal support if we were fired, and placement in a Teamster job if necessary, so we began "informational meetings" at local halls and sometimes at neutral locations like restaurants close to stations. Attendance averaged 15-20 people, with an occasional manager or unknown person we would ask to leave, and then physically eject, as needed. All of the managers we caught were busily scribbling down the names of people they recognized. The biggest fear was that managment would retaliate against those in attendance, a very real possibility.
Soon after, I began to be followed, both on my route, and in my personal vehicle. Once, I was able to get behind the following vehicle, and was led to the home of a manager from another station, whom I knew. Let's just say they were surprised when I rang the doorbell and told them they needed to stop tailing me. Eventually, I found out this manager had been assigned to monitor me, and had to give weekly reports to the MD and Memphis. My two other friends were similarly harassed.
At work, I began to get extra stops, and my performance was monitored very closely. I had to be very careful to do everything on the up and up. The same held true for the other two "leaders".
We kept holding meetings, and despite Teamster assurance that a rep would be there, they never showed. They had promised that reps would be outside stations handing out cards and information...never happened. Even though the national had decreed that there was an organization drive, the Teamster effort was weak, at least in my location.
One day, the MD walked up to me on the belt and mentioned the raise topped-out people received, and he asked me if that would be enough to stall the drive to organize. I said "no". and walked away.
Shortly thereafter, Fred successfully got his special language inserted into the FAA Bill, and the Teamsters disappeared. I was really starting to get harassed, and I wanted to take them up on the offer of a Teamster job. "No longer on the table", was the answer. Me and my two friends were hung out to dry. One of them got canned after being targeted for a long time, and the other barely kept his job. No legal support...nothing.
Here's the point, which is the IBT plays dirty too. I hate that they are the only game in town and that they have been so weak and wavering on the whole issue of organizing Express. They don't understand the Express culture, which is like WalMart in that it means bad things if you are identified as an organizer. The IBT simply doesn't understand this, and I don't think they ever will.
Until we overcome the intimidation game that Fred plays, we won't get a union. The status quo R1a mentions seems firmly in-place for the time being. If the IBT really is the only game in town, we have to play by their rules, even if it means holding our noses as we do.It's possible, but unlikely that another union will be interested because the IBT has a corner on "drivers". Signing cards and sharing information are both key, and we cannot stop the effort.
Anything we do to thwart Fred is a good thing.
Explains alot on where you are coming from. The raises did make a difference though. 35% needed to sign cards back then to force a vote. The raises appeased many of the topped out and gave the midrange employees hope that they'd do much better soon. They were fairly substantial raises. Now it takes 50% to force a vote so I doubt the Teamsters are going to do much if anything. That was my point through all of that last night, that if they are the only union we have a chance with then it looks highly unlikely a union will happen.
DorkHead
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by DorkHead
Threatening a national slow down with the Media covering it would only work to FS`s advantage.
How so?
Who do you think is going to look like the bad guy? A bunch of couriers who won`t be recorded on video crying that they will create a "slow down....." or Fred S who has all the money at his disposal to rebut anything and everything the couriers say??
Threatening a national slow down with the Media covering it would only work to FS`s advantage.
How so?
Who do you think is going to look like the bad guy? A bunch of couriers who won`t be recorded on video crying that they will create a "slow down....." or Fred S who has all the money at his disposal to rebut anything and everything the couriers say??
